80 replies to this topic

[Lucian Nostra]

The Atlas Overlord, on 14 April 2016 - 03:44 PM, said:

Better make this mech have a top speed of 63 b/c it's OP
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9fc54c97fbddec0

But this is fine
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cc50065b7afcd29

Clan favoritism, power creep, and lack of care for your game at it's finest.

Why you running Dual Goose on a Cata when the Jager does it so much better? Cata 4x? quad AC/5 dakka.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Lucian Nostra, on 14 April 2016 - 05:47 PM, said:

Why you running Dual Goose on a Cata when the Jager does it so much better? Cata 4x? quad AC/5 dakka.

Oh wait you're serious?

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 14 April 2016 - 05:50 PM.

[Vxheous]

Darian DelFord, on 14 April 2016 - 04:08 PM, said:

Actually no he is not

Clearly says Tier 4 below his name.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 14 April 2016 - 05:51 PM, said:

Clearly says Tier 4 below his name.

I have multiple accounts.

I like posting on this one to see which people will try to use Tiers to avoid needing to actually have a point.

Also: The name helps me pretend I'm halfway decent at the game.

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 14 April 2016 - 05:54 PM.

[Lucian Nostra]

The Atlas Overlord, on 14 April 2016 - 05:50 PM, said:

Oh wait you're serious?

quad ac/5 with 7 tons ammo and dual meds backing it is a much better use than trying to run dual gauss a weapon combo the Jager does infinity better

or did I miss the point of this thread and its just another IS "lets cherry pick a scenario and whine about it"? I can do that too.. uhm Cata 4x gets 4B Ebon Jag only gets 3! IS imba!

Gargoyle stuck with low weapon tonnage Victor and Awesome carry so much more tonnage! IS favoritism!

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Lucian Nostra, on 14 April 2016 - 06:00 PM, said:

quad ac/5 with 7 tons ammo and dual meds backing it is a much better use than trying to run dual gauss a weapon combo the Jager does infinity better

When I want to run AC boat and actually do well I run a mauler.

B/c the speed is the same as the 4x with the same loadout, it has more armor, and more ammo.....AND it can do it without the "please kill me" sign that XL brings you.

Lucian Nostra, on 14 April 2016 - 06:00 PM, said:

Pretending victor and awesome aren't bad

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d75bbb78ed36815

^^ I wish I liked clan mechs

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with a single range module...that's 50 damage at almost 500 meters....while running 81.

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 14 April 2016 - 06:32 PM.

[Wintersdark]

The Atlas Overlord, on 14 April 2016 - 05:46 PM, said:

38% faster, with better hit boxes, and higher hardpoints

That structure would matter, except 20 extra HP is a joke. You'll take that from your friendlies let alone from any of the half dozen 50 point laser alphas poking out every 4 seconds.

You're also forgetting the Jag actually has 5 less tons to workwith... and it's still better in every way.

Better in every way, except:

Has 24 less effective CT structure, with 42 vs 66. The CTF has roughly 50% more, and about the same percentage more in side torsos. The CTF effectively gets 3x structure vs the EBJ's 2x.

THAT DOES MATTER.

+10% DPS output.
+15% range.
+400m/s projectile speed

That matters too.

Twists and turns at the same speed as the EBJ, and way faster if the EBJ loses a ST.

So, it has the same loadout, but it's weapons are better in terms of accuracy, range, and cycle speed. It has 50% more structure. It takes no penalty from ST loss.

The EBJ is faster, until it loses a ST (which it will given only 2/3's of the CTF's structure).


And that's your insane cherry picked proof of bias? Want to try again, with Summoner vs. Marauder?

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Wintersdark, on 14 April 2016 - 06:32 PM, said:

Blah

If any of your theory crafting actually held weight in game play you'd see cataphracts running around instead of jaguars.

Wintersdark, on 14 April 2016 - 06:32 PM, said:

Want to try again, with Summoner vs. Marauder?

The marauder is an OP tanking beast that needs it's hitboxes properly done ASAP, and i've never used the summoner so I don't know anything about them.

Or were you just trying to change the subject?

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 14 April 2016 - 06:38 PM.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

The Atlas Overlord, on 14 April 2016 - 05:53 PM, said:

I have multiple accounts.

Which one are you logically reasonable on?

Edited by Boogie138, 14 April 2016 - 06:37 PM.

[Lucian Nostra]

The Atlas Overlord, on 14 April 2016 - 06:14 PM, said:

When I want to run AC boat and actually do well I run a mauler.

B/c the speed is the same as the 4x with the same loadout, it has more armor, and more ammo.....AND it can do it without the "please kill me" sign that XL brings you.



http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d75bbb78ed36815

^^ I wish I liked clan mechs

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with a single range module...that's 50 damage at almost 500 meters....while running 81.

never said they where good I was just cherry picking like you are with Cata vs Ebon

[Wintersdark]

The Atlas Overlord, on 14 April 2016 - 06:37 PM, said:

If any of your theory crafting actually held weight in game play you'd see cataphracts running around instead of jaguars.

Its still valid.

People don't play CTF-4x's often because they're slow. Not because that makes them terrible, but because it's just not fun at that speed.

But that isn't PGI's fault, just like geometry wasn't. That's just how the mechs are.

You claim PGI "favors" clans (a load of horseshit, BTW: which Faction has seen nonstop nerfs since their release, many being Faction wide? Not saying they weren't needed, but saying the most massively nerfed Faction is favoured is a hard sell) but this particular case is picking one of the best Clan mechs and comparing it to a VERY old CTF variant that nobody really likes much anyways... And nobody much liked before clans existed, either.

Even so, it's not that disparate a comparison, except that the speed limit on the 4x is a part of the mech, not just because "hah lol IS suxxors."

Nobody claims that all the mechs are balanced and equal, or that all are equally fun to pilot. But your conclusions here are off base and ridiculous.

Quote

The marauder is an OP tanking beast that needs it's hitboxes properly done ASAP, and i've never used the summoner so I don't know anything about them.

Or were you just trying to change the subject?

No, obviously not.

I was illustrating how you're cherry picking specific mechs and builds and using that to construct an absurd case of favouritism.

My point was that the summoner is flat out terrible, a really bad mech, while the marauder is exceptionally strong, is that proof of IS favouritism? No. Because (when people pull their heads out of their aggreived backsides) we know that an individual comparison of two particular mechs when both sides have AAA chassis and dog chassis is pointless.

Edited by Wintersdark, 14 April 2016 - 07:27 PM.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Wintersdark, on 14 April 2016 - 07:22 PM, said:

It's still valid.

People don't play CTF-4x's often because they're slow. Not because that makes them terrible, but because it's just not fun at that speed.

It's valid "on paper".

And yes, people don't use them b/c the exact same loadout can be put on faster, more resilient clan mechs.

It's literally b/c they're worse.

[Mech Jager]

FupDup, on 14 April 2016 - 03:57 PM, said:

The Cataphract 4X is the victim of having a pathetically small engine in TT, and thus it inherits a tiny engine in MWO because PGI usually uses a formula to determine max engine from stock engine (with some deviations like the Urbie).

The Cauldron Born comes stock with a big engine, so it doesn't care about engine caps.

With that being said, I'd be okay with it if they boosted the Phract 4X's engine up to 280-300 to let it reach the "standard" heavy mech speed of at least ~70 kph (4/6 MP in TT terms).

dude TT is BS. Wrong ffn game.

[DaZur]

Oh, how you P2W power-creep alarmists crack me up...

You guys do realize at some point new mechs, particularly when the timeline advances will, in fact, be "better" than present offerings?

We're already fast approaching a saturation point where mechs only differ through hardpoint location and geometry...

[Wintersdark]

Mech Jager, on 14 April 2016 - 09:24 PM, said:

dude TT is BS. Wrong ffn game.

Dude, he's not saying it should be low, he's saying the mechs engine cap is based off TT (like (almost) every other mech's).

It doesn't matter what you think about TT, that's where the base mech stats come from.

[Wintersdark]

The Atlas Overlord, on 14 April 2016 - 09:00 PM, said:

It's valid "on paper".

And yes, people don't use them b/c the exact same loadout can be put on faster, more resilient clan mechs.

It's literally b/c they're worse.

and yet VERY few people run dual Gauss EBJ's.

The EBJ is NOT more resilient though, not at all. Definitely not if you use that shoulder mount for one of the Gauss rifles. +50% structure is a pretty damn big buff, plus everything else. The EBJ is faster.

But let's say, for sake of argument, that the EBJ's speed offsets range, DPS, accuracy, and resilience (all of which the CTF4X clearly has an advantage in).

So? How is this clan favouritism? A blackjack can run some loadouts better than a shadowcat. The shadowcat has its own strengths, though, but still is a worse mech. The BJ's advantages are simply better. Again, is this evidence of IS favouritism?

There are lots of mismatches all over the place, and all it means is that mech vs. Mech balance is pretty sketchy at best. This has nothing to do with clan vs. IS, despite your desperation to make it so in your ridiculous posts.

It's just bad balance, and it goes both ways.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 14 April 2016 - 09:00 PM, said:

And yes, people don't use them b/c the exact same loadout can be put on faster, more resilient IS mechs.

FTFY

(Hey, don't shoot the messenger. Jagermech called and said you were up to no good. Asked me to pass on THIS message. THIS one, I don't know who she was, but she scares me a little.)

Edited by Sister RAbbi, 14 April 2016 - 10:33 PM.

[DovisKhan]

Wintersdark, on 14 April 2016 - 05:15 PM, said:

Additional Structure Center Torso+22
Additional Structure L/R Arm+11
Additional Structure L/R Torso+15
Additional Structure L/R Leg+15
Ballistic Weapon Cooldown10%
Ballistic Weapon Range15%
Ballistic Weapon Velocity20%
Turn Rate40%
Torso Yaw Speed45%

still absolute crap, since it requires full body to be peeking due to arms being so low, hands down the worst geometry mech in the game.

Quirks should be double in value for it to even be remotely viable

[DovisKhan]

Wintersdark, on 14 April 2016 - 09:53 PM, said:

and yet VERY few people run dual Gauss EBJ's.

The EBJ is NOT more resilient though, not at all. Definitely not if you use that shoulder mount for one of the Gauss rifles. +50% structure is a pretty damn big buff, plus everything else. The EBJ is faster.

But let's say, for sake of argument, that the EBJ's speed offsets range, DPS, accuracy, and resilience (all of which the CTF4X clearly has an advantage in).

So? How is this clan favouritism? A blackjack can run some loadouts better than a shadowcat. The shadowcat has its own strengths, though, but still is a worse mech. The BJ's advantages are simply better. Again, is this evidence of IS favouritism?

There are lots of mismatches all over the place, and all it means is that mech vs. Mech balance is pretty sketchy at best. This has nothing to do with clan vs. IS, despite your desperation to make it so in your ridiculous posts.

It's just bad balance, and it goes both ways.

Shadow cat can pack 2 Clan LPL, which is a cooler equivalent of 3 ERLL, it runs faster and has ECM, how is BJ better again?


You can find videos of Shadow Cat doing 1600+ damage in QM, i've yet to see one in a BJ


Seriously, shadow cat has reputation in these forums that doesn't correlate with reality whatsoever

[Not A Real RAbbi]

DovisKhan, on 14 April 2016 - 10:42 PM, said:

Shadow cat can pack 2 Clan LPL, which is a cooler equivalent of 3 ERLL, it runs faster and has ECM, how is BJ better again?


You can find videos of Shadow Cat doing 1600+ damage in QM, i've yet to see one in a BJ


Seriously, shadow cat has reputation in these forums that doesn't correlate with reality whatsoever

When SadCat can boat 6 MLs and a pair of MPLs, and run over 100 km/h without tweak OR MASC, gimme a shout.

Wanna compare Gauss-to-Gauss? Sure. Take the 'worst' Blackjack, the BJ-1DC. What's that? 25% Ballistic cooldown? You're right, that's just not fair. ESPECIALLY when it can run a Gauss with FOUR MLs (SadCat can't run four of ANYTHING, except MGs and heat sinks, and only BARELY has space for the latter).

But then, IS MLs are sad. And that BJ-1DC (or any Blackjack not the -1X) is slower. But then, it has all those structure quirks and other cool stuff. But the SadCat has ... uh ... moar jumpjetz?! I GUESS that's a good thing....

TL;DR- IS and Clam are apples and oranges, but they're not so grossly unbalanced. Pick your poison, but quit picking those cherries please.