50 replies to this topic

[Novakaine]

My humble lamentations to the all seeing Mechlords.
Please make it stop.
Yeah pugs I know, but really how hard is it?

[Paigan]

Novakaine, on 16 April 2016 - 11:57 AM, said:

[...]
Please make it stop.
Yeah pugs I know, but really how hard is it?
[...]

Extremely hard.
Or how naive are you?

The outcome of a match is determined by a LOT of variables:

- Player skill (and what IS skill? Not just aim, but knowing the map, playing in a team, etc. How should an algorithm determine all that?)
- The Mech
- The loadout
- The Mech in a specific team
- The loadout in a specific team
- The Mech on a specific map (right down to hardpoint location)
- The loadout on a specific map
- Tactical decisions (flank unlucky and half the team is dead. No one's fault, just bad luck)
- and probably a dozend more factors
- the player's form on the day
- chance in general

I always find that whining so immensely naive. All that is supposed be managed by an algorithm based on too few statistics of a too small player base?

And you can't even adjust the balancing details proberly (e.g. introduce recharging shields or whatever to make tactical mistakes more forgiving) because then the lore zealots will go ballistic.
Everything has to be kept as close to the moronic BT original rules as possible.

How can anyone with healthy common sense post ONE picuture of a stomp and just say "stop it"?


From my experience, the matches are PRETTY evenly distributed.
Very often from 12-6 to 12-11, sometimes 12-1 to 12-3.
Overall, it's very balanced.

Stop whining.

Edited by Paigan, 16 April 2016 - 12:13 PM.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Those matchmaker mood swings can get ugly fast.

[Monkey Lover]

Kind of surprised based off the units. The other team must have NASCAR faster

[TheCharlatan]

I think i need a hug too

[Afuldan McKronik]

When this happens in group queue i cry.

[Crotch RockIt]

OP, the mech you killed did 0 damage. Was it an AFK?

[Trauglodyte]

I just walked out of a game with an Archer Tempest w/ 9 Streak-2s on chain fire and no ECM. So, yeah, I feel your pain.

[Monkey Lover]

Trauglodyte, on 16 April 2016 - 01:03 PM, said:

I just walked out of a game with an Archer Tempest w/ 9 Streak-2s on chain fire and no ECM. So, yeah, I feel your pain.

Ha-ha I tried this in the training ground d and took about a minute to kill a commado
I stripped the mech and didn't even try to play it.

[Wintersdark]

I Zeratul I, on 16 April 2016 - 12:05 PM, said:

Those matchmaker mood swings can get ugly fast.

Doubtful it was the matchmaker. Much more likely just a match that started with a couple lucky kills, then their deathball just crashed on through. I've seen this happen enough, and been on both sides of it enough, with players I know to be competent. Sometimes, things just go real bad.

[MischiefSC]

Crotch RockIt, on 16 April 2016 - 12:45 PM, said:

OP, the mech you killed did 0 damage. Was it an AFK?

Unlikely. Novakaine always runs LRMS, probably caught the poor ******* in the open and the sucker tried to run or something, got rained down before he could fire a shot.

[Wintersdark]

Monkey Lover, on 16 April 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:

Kind of surprised based off the units. The other team must have NASCAR faster

This is what I'm saying. Looks like it was Just One Of Those Matches.

Doesn't make it hurt less though >.<

[Bishop Steiner]

Novakaine, on 16 April 2016 - 11:57 AM, said:

My humble lamentations to the all seeing Mechlords.
Please make it stop.
Yeah pugs I know, but really how hard is it?

CGL makes it impossible to "stop".

The overwhelming effect of focus fire means that the more often than not, it's going to be a steamroll, or at least look like one. Thing is, I've had those 12-1 losses, where the entire enemy team was 1-3 shots away from dying also, but because of a number of factors, didn't.

And sadly, the overwhelming decider for victory in this game, BALLS, is not something MM can measure. Possibly they could hotmap every single players play tendencies and try to project off of "who spent most time hiding on maps", but reality as ALL smart players use cover.

Team that actually mans up and pushes almost always wins. Ain't no way for a MM to quantify that.

[Lozruet Gravemind]

Novakaine, on 16 April 2016 - 11:57 AM, said:

My humble lamentations to the all seeing Mechlords.
Please make it stop.
Yeah pugs I know, but really how hard is it?

Yeah I feel you Nova. Been on a few "Potato" teams with you as well. Your always trying to communicate at least SOMTHING, versus alot of the rest of Tier 5-3 where it seems they are Pew Pew Call of Duty players.

I especially LOVE seeing 85+ Ton Assault players with below 250 damage. Ive had matches where two assaults, Atlas and a Direwolf, both didnt even break 70 Damage if I remember correctly.

Edited by Lozruet Gravemind, 16 April 2016 - 01:39 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 April 2016 - 01:25 PM, said:

CGL makes it impossible to "stop".

The overwhelming effect of focus fire means that the more often than not, it's going to be a steamroll, or at least look like one. Thing is, I've had those 12-1 losses, where the entire enemy team was 1-3 shots away from dying also, but because of a number of factors, didn't.

Yup. And when you're on the winning side, and you can see all the smoke and massive damage through your team, but the OpFor cries about MM fail, unaware that the difference between a 12-1 loss and a win was a teensy bit of focus fire at some point in the match, or a missed shot connecting. When any tiny bit of well placed fire would have removed a whole mech from the opposing team, shifting the way the match played out completely.

Quote

And sadly, the overwhelming decider for victory in this game, BALLS, is not something MM can measure. Possibly they could hotmap every single players play tendencies and try to project off of "who spent most time hiding on maps", but reality as ALL smart players use cover.

It's a thin line, that many don't really grasp - and I think something hard for new players to really appreciate - that everyone should use cover, but using cover != hiding behind cover.

Quote

Team that actually mans up and pushes almost always wins. Ain't no way for a MM to quantify that.

And sadly there's not really a correlation between individual player skill and team cahones. I've seen teams full a great players who were all unwilling to man up, and teams of terribads who just all ran forward together and mopped up.

Had one of these matches today, where you've got a lot of Known Names, but for whatever reason nobody was really willing to step up, they just kept holding back, then falling back, with too many people spending too much time hiding.



Ultimately, my feeling is this:

You should be firing practically as much as you can. Cover is for when you're between shots. Obviously, peekaboo in the same spot is bad, so repositioning eats time, but still... Staying in cover is just giving the Opfor more time to focus on other teammates. Then the more aggressive players (the only ones actually doing damage) take more fire, die, and the CLG noted above comes into play - game over.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

I think it is the matchmaker. Its hard to explain otherwise the tendency people have to watch a deathball coming towards them like a deer in headlights and not know how to respond. In a lot of those 12-1 or 12-2 stomp games, I'll feel like I'm the only one shooting back at the other team. Most others are burying their heads in the sand a la ostrich defense. That's what makes it so easy to roll over them they offer no resistance.

Either that or they're too spread out and its easy for a concentrated group to pick them off 1 by 1.

Either way the stomp is due to a lack of basic understanding of fundamentals.

But the thing that sticks out to me the most is that one team has no problem charging in -- they expect to win. They're used to winning all the time.

While the other team usually has no problem running for the hills and abandoning their teammates -- they expect to lose. They're used to losing and expect to be overrrun that's what makes it so easy for them to run without shooting back or providing any resistance.

Based on the win / loss expectations, it would seem it is due to matchmaker mismatch if only because you have one team that is used to winning going up against another team that expects to be defeated.

[C E Dwyer]

Only it's not just new people that chicken out, ,that sit at the back, and let others do the fighting, everyone with more than half a brain knows that a team that pokes and hides loses, against a team that rolls forward in a controlled manner, yet even people that know this and can do it chose hide as the options in most pug games,

[Dale Grible]

I agree with everything bishop says. Hes my hero mech.....warrior

[Bishop Steiner]

I Zeratul I, on 16 April 2016 - 01:55 PM, said:

I think it is the matchmaker. Its hard to explain otherwise the tendency people have to watch a deathball coming towards them like a deer in headlights and not know how to respond. In a lot of those 12-1 or 12-2 stomp games, I'll feel like I'm the only one shooting back at the other team. Most others are burying their heads in the sand a la ostrich defense. That's what makes it so easy to roll over them they offer no resistance.

Either that or they're too spread out and its easy for a concentrated group to pick them off 1 by 1.

Either way the stomp is due to a lack of basic understanding of fundamentals.

But the thing that sticks out to me the most is that one team has no problem charging in -- they expect to win. They're used to winning all the time.

While the other team usually has no problem running for the hills and abandoning their teammates -- they expect to lose. They're used to losing and expect to be overrrun that's what makes it so easy for them to run without shooting back or providing any resistance.

Based on the win / loss expectations, it would seem it is due to matchmaker mismatch if only because you have one team that is used to winning going up against another team that expects to be defeated.

one could see that potentially for Group Queue. Makes zero sense for Solo.

[Green Mamba]

Haha ...Novacaine fishing for compliments since showing he is the only one with a kill..lol