139 replies to this topic

[Afuldan McKronik]

Good idea to make and post the video series, Sader. Problem is that is an entire waking day of doing nothing but watching/listening to them. Noone is going to sit through that much without giving them at least "about balance; 1:02:00 in the video."

[Felbombling]

Sader325, on 19 April 2016 - 02:45 AM, said:

Where we have added bunch of menus, restrictions and called it a new game mode.

Sader, you are hysterical. Here, let me give you an example of what we're being subjected to, based on your OP and response to requests for more information...

Sader is ugly and his Mother dresses him funny.

Don't agree with me? Here, watch these seven YouTube videos over the next fifteen hours, where you will hear several people give their opinions on the subject.

Love you, buddy.

[HighTest]

StaggerCheck, on 19 April 2016 - 07:36 AM, said:

Thanks High. Looking at the unit costs for membership, and the 10 player Mech Credit allotment window, it appears to me that PGI is trying to incentivise units to break up into new, smaller units. I remember a Town Hall where the members of the larger 100+ member units were vehemently opposed to such a division. Wouldn't four 50-member teams be better for the queue than one 200-member team?

Thanks for reading my post. I appreciate it!

Maybe not. With four 50-member groups compared to a 200-member group, that means that you need 4-times the people training new players, and 4-times the drop commanders, and 4-times the number of people that even want to or care to bother trying to run a unit in the first place. Which doesn't always happen. There are some economies of scale that are afforded by having a larger group, which makes getting more players involved more viable.

Besides, even 50-member groups are expensive enough under the new system. That still means putting up 2.5mil CBills to recruit someone who may not even stay in the game or the unit for the week. Really?

Take us Foxes. On drop nights, we'll often put out two 12-mans, (or 2 10's, or whatever we have on). Sometimes one will be higher caliber, and the other will be more of a training group. Or sometimes we'll split them 50/50 to have 2 more mediocre groups with 2 sets of newer players in training. In either case, we usually bring 2 larger groups to the field to match against other groups.

And sometimes that training group ends up against a 12-man of -MS- or 228. So to me that suggests that either it's a huge matchmaker fail, or this is why I suspect there aren't enough people playing CW now -- there's just no one else to match up against. Well, that and the number of ghost drops we tend to get. Even during prime time.

[Jiyu Mononoke]

Sader325, I'm not saying they are perfect man, I'm saying they do put out a lot of work in to this game and we should be respectful of that. Ya, I got my gripes too, I firmly believe they need to integrate their chat system to better accommodate the previously titled "Community Warfare" and I've made no bones about my position on it. But I do so constructively, offering solutions, and don't go making vague public slaps at the company I claim to support and whos product I enjoy.


- You do enjoy it right? I mean, here you are after all... that was sorta my whole point with the initial response. So promote good ideas in a constructive manner, people who read it might support you more.

[HighTest]

Freebrth, on 19 April 2016 - 07:26 AM, said:

HighTest, I apologize if I came off rude, but I have to disagree and note that I felt strongly that the OPs post is what discourages people from getting interested, or staying interested. I personally like, appreciate, and enjoy the game immensely. I encourage friends to check it out and come play, and solid smacks at PGI without offering solutions, advice or constructive criticism are counter productive at best. People read it (Op's type post) and wonder if they should even try the game... It just doesn't help anything.

P.s. They obviously put a lot of work into this last patch. The games come along way, and is likely to continue doing so. I greatly respect and admire the legwork that Sader325 has put forth, but seriously, it's PGI's product, and they are going to do what they think is best for the company profile as a whole. They have to balance a game that entertains casual part timers and gives arena to the serious players as well. Ultimately they have to feed their families (and employees families) with the product we all enjoy. I'm sure they hear you, but I'm sure they're going to do what they feel will make the company survive as a whole. I think they are honestly doing their best to give us all (new, old, serious and casual alike) a battle tech game we can all enjoy. Give em credit, don't blast em publicly.

No worries, mate. Sometimes it's hard to come across with the 'right' in the forums. Text is funny that way.

I'm not trying to blast them. I only want the best for the game, which in turn would be the best for PGI and their staff as well. My point is that I really think they're trying to address a symptom and not the problem, and in turn going about it all wrong.

Otherwise, I love those guys!

[Afuldan McKronik]

I think one of the gripes would be solved if there were more staff/players. I used to play DAOC, and the devs would literally do mini patches that were just 1-2% balance patches twice a week until they got it right.

But they had a playerbase of around 25k to collect data from also.

Edit; and they had 40ish classes to balance, so inb4 "MMOs only have a few classes ti balance!"

Edited by Afuldan McKronik, 19 April 2016 - 08:06 AM.

[Jiyu Mononoke]

HighTest,I think a lot of people have valid concerns, even complaints. Hell, I been bitching about fixing the chat thing (I'd love to see room based chat here... unit rooms in the faction lobby anyone?)I think it would be a key to enabling unit alliances, match making, even bombing into an opposing factions unit room and issuing a challenge for territory etc. But when I bring it up, I try to make it something they will take constructively. The result was hearing it being mentioned by Paul in Town Hall, where he sheepishly acknowledged that it was in fact a shortcoming, and that they indeed needed to address it, with note that he'd put it on the to-do pile. ~ I know it wont be tomorrow, but we keep the topic there in a constructive tone

~ We will get it someday, until then lets have some fun and play with what we got.

Edited by Freebrth, 19 April 2016 - 08:14 AM.

[Felbombling]

HighTest, on 19 April 2016 - 07:53 AM, said:

Thanks for reading my post. I appreciate it!

But of course.

HighTest, on 19 April 2016 - 07:53 AM, said:

Maybe not. With four 50-member groups compared to a 200-member group, that means that you need 4-times the people training new players, and 4-times the drop commanders, and 4-times the number of people that even want to or care to bother trying to run a unit in the first place. Which doesn't always happen. There are some economies of scale that are afforded by having a larger group, which makes getting more players involved more viable.

But they'd be their own units now, able to sign their own loyalties, fight their own battles, etc.

HighTest, on 19 April 2016 - 07:53 AM, said:

Take us Foxes. On drop nights, we'll often put out two 12-mans, (or 2 10's, or whatever we have on). Sometimes one will be higher caliber, and the other will be more of a training group. Or sometimes we'll split them 50/50 to have 2 more mediocre groups with 2 sets of newer players in training. In either case, we usually bring 2 larger groups to the field to match against other groups.

How many on your current roster?

HighTest, on 19 April 2016 - 07:53 AM, said:

And sometimes that training group ends up against a 12-man of -MS- or 228. So to me that suggests that either it's a huge matchmaker fail, or this is why I suspect there aren't enough people playing CW now -- there's just no one else to match up against. Well, that and the number of ghost drops we tend to get. Even during prime time.

Do you not expect an influx of new Faction Warfare participants in the near future? I can see solo players trying it out, enjoying the rewards and then looking for a better return on their time investment, which would most likely mean searching for a larger unit and the better reward structure.

[Gas Guzzler]

All I can say is I hope the OP is the first to receive the business end of the Long Tom artillery to see how a few of those will have no impact on the match.

I thought the patch notes looked promising personally.. shame I really won't be able to dive into it until this Friday or Saturday.

[DrxAbstract]

Never mind, that wasnt very nice...

Edited by DrxAbstract, 19 April 2016 - 08:22 AM.

[MechaBattler]

What he said isn't completely untrue. Scouting 4v4 is the only thing they did of any interest to me. And even then I'm not sure how much I care about it. The intel mechanics they added are kinda boring to me. I was hoping we might see some tanks or Elementals. Might as well go the full moba. ;3

[Jiyu Mononoke]

DrxAbstract, on 19 April 2016 - 08:16 AM, said:

Never mind, that wasnt very nice...

LoL, I have my moments too, I think we all do at somepoint

[Mystere]

TexAce, on 19 April 2016 - 04:12 AM, said:

That's totally wrong.

If you can't see the benefit of all the players joining now CW because of the new stuff, no one can help you.

I'll give you a hint: more CW players means not only faster matches but also more benefits from controlling planets. It also means a healthier game and thus a game at all.
This is a make or break moment for pgi. If CW doesn't get traction now from everyone who refused to play CW because it just plain sucked, it never will and this game will fail completely. Pugs now want to give it a chance and contribute to the faction play, which before was not possible.

You may not like it. But the majority of mwo players do, which is also the majority of players who didn't play CW at all prior. And that was the goal. To get those players involved.

If PGI wanted everyone to play CW, they could have removed Quick Play entirely for solo players and reconfigured the solo-only queue in CW to replace it. They could have even taken the next step by integrating all QP modes into CW and totally removed QP.

Instead, it's basically:

Sader325, on 19 April 2016 - 02:45 AM, said:

Where we have added bunch of menus, restrictions and called it a new game mode.

LORD ORION, on 19 April 2016 - 04:03 AM, said:

Complete truth, nothing has changed for people who already play CW, except for restrictions and some heavy handed penalties.

[Galenit]

Sader325, on 19 April 2016 - 03:44 AM, said:

You asked "What do people want?".

Over the course of MONTHS we have talked to leaders from almost every house, and every clan. People who have units ranging from 10 members to 300 members. We have asked that question of more people than anyone else. We did the legwork.

So sorry, when it comes down to it. I know far more of what people actually want from CW than you.

Did you also asked the remaining 80-90% of the playerbase?
Or just some small minority whos not able to pay enough to justify any futher development of a playmode?

Giving the not unit players an option to play without the pugstomping maybe the last chance for futher improvement of cw. But only if enough not unit players play cw.
Maybe they still prever qp because they dont get any real rewards for playing cw?

Time (and money) will tell ....

Edited by Galenit, 19 April 2016 - 08:36 AM.

[TexAce]

MechaBattler, on 19 April 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

What he said isn't completely untrue. Scouting 4v4 is the only thing they did of any interest to me. And even then I'm not sure how much I care about it. The intel mechanics they added are kinda boring to me. I was hoping we might see some tanks or Elementals. Might as well go the full moba. ;3

and you really were hoping for this on this patch?
like really....?

without them EVER talking about it, not in the town halls, not even mentioning it....

It seems to me a lot of you guys need to manage your expectations.

Mystere, on 19 April 2016 - 08:31 AM, said:

If PGI wanted everyone to play CW, they could have removed Quick Play entirely for solo players and reconfigured the solo-only queue in CW to replace it. They could have even taken the next step by integrating all QP modes into CW and totally removed QP.

Instead, it's basically:

yeah piss off 90% of the population for what reasons again?
I'd let them rather piss off the other 10% like this thread is showing.

[Mystere]

KinLuu, on 19 April 2016 - 04:26 AM, said:

To me, this update is very disappointing. I was looking forward to CW games with my unit, but I guess I will rather stick to farmin PUGs on my alt.

People do not seem to have foreseen this part. Or they're in denial.

[Tordin]

Sader, sader, sader. You know, they steadliy improve the game? I know some white knights can be blindly PGI loyal, but you seems to play contructive but go the black knight way of just wanting people to utterly HATE any change PGI does.

People have said before me. Theres a reason such "restricitions" are in place. I find them at paper brilliant, but I want to stay casually optimistic and see how it tunrs out.

As far as I know. This patch is an Elitist dream, isnt it? Not purely so. But IMO it makes it clearer which role you have and includes in my view the things PGI showed off for long time ago.
The harcore players lore fantast or otherwise. Now DONT have to bother with pugs messing up their team and play. While Pugs and solo loyalist happily can go barking off and do their best in their own way, contributing in their own way to the faction they are siding with. I say WIN - WIN!
MWO is team based no matter what and both Puglandia and FW should have both competive and casual elements contributing to the game! Imagine the whining if competive units couldnt join pug games, huh, HUH?!

All this, perfect for those that dont bother with playing in high competive units at all OR want to taste on the concept first and play the field to get "house warm". Because you do have some responsibility being in an unit, small or large.
You might say. "Well aint being in a starter friendly unit the perfect introduction to FW/ CW?"
Some people can feel chained and knit up joining a unit, THATS why we finally have Freelancer Lone wolves, Solo Loyalists that can do their own "lonely, heretic" thing by playing loosely with eachother, turning the tides without bothering with units.

You and some others here seems to have an essence off discontent towards PGI's changes. They try to improve and its not good enough. If you want to contribute something contructive to PGI, e-mail them visit their studio whatever. I get the feeling that those units that felt ignored by PGI might not be so pure of innocence. I dont know but theres always reasons.

To be fair, yes, its bad if PGI favor some units and lapdance for them to avoid critic or something. Thats shameful and needs to stop if thats the case. Also PGI, do more reasearch beforehead of tournaments. And listen more to Tina, shes a keybridge between us and you among others I cnat remember the name on.

I will support PGI, Im gonna enjoy the improvements, some are questinable, but still Im in with an OPEN mind.
I might even bother with teamspeak and such now (no, before these changes in CW, I didnt feel THAT competive or talky to use it, also Im more like for listening to trusty leaders and just do what Im told and just type suggestions if needed!).
But anyway you know.. game developement and updates are always some kind of experiment. Thats why theres up and downs with quirks, map changes, game modes, tweaks and whatnot.

Yeah theres some oddity and feeling of ignorance by PGI, like with flamer, MG, LBX, ghost heat and such. It irritates me, but I dont want to go ballistic over something that IMO seems to have a reason for it. Maybe PGI want to await improvements to the beforementioned things until other things are done, game engine, features and so on. Im a patient fella, save the grit when needed.

Seriously if you bigots, salters, bittervets, trolls and black knights (no you white knights arent always for the better either!) Are so darn uncontructive, pissed off and about to explode. WHY are you here, why do you bother playing this game, being on these very forums? A small hope? Well okay unsatisfied? Hey! PGI! Dont bother with the update, these fellas truly want the good old, shallow CW of yours back Enjoy!

You know. PGI are, last time I checked only 65 people. Its a miracle, really that MWO even exist now. I guess the sour beans are in the minority but sure are the loudest.

*sigh*

Ok I need a cup of coffee now, this was fun typing, so much sensitivity because of a kick *** stompy mech game with its ups and downs

[Galenit]

Mystere, on 19 April 2016 - 08:31 AM, said:

If PGI wanted everyone to play CW, they could have removed Quick Play entirely for solo players and reconfigured the solo-only queue in CW to replace it. They could have even taken the next step by integrating all QP modes into CW and totally removed QP.

That would have been great!

But only without the groups/pug problem ...

[Mystere]

TexAce, on 19 April 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

yeah piss off 90% of the population for what reasons again?
I'd let them rather piss off the other 10% like this thread is showing.

Why would seamlessly integrating the QP game modes into CW piss off the 90%? It only takes a little more imagination, like this one from another thread:

LordNothing, on 19 April 2016 - 03:46 AM, said:

id have preferred the pugs doing garrison duty. units would fight for the front line worlds. pugs would be on the second line worlds. so pugs get different planets than units. then i would have had the two zones complement eachother in a way that translates into total war. if pugs have victories in the rear it would support a strong supply line to the front (perhaps through more tonnage or other support mechanics), which would give the units fighting there some advantages. then if the units do well rewards would trickle out to all the supporting second line worlds. this would also consolidate pugs in the hot spots. then in periods of low population asymetric unit on pug warfare would be an option (and spawn another pair of game modes in the process).

i dont know if this system will have pugs and units support eachother in the big war or if the two are completely isolated from eachother in all ways that matter.

Or is that too much to ask of PGI and it's game designers?

[Novakaine]

The only thing that destroyed the new player experience are new players themselves.
And those solo seals who refuse to join any type of unit for for coordinated Community Warfare.
Yet insist on playing there in pickup pugs teams with no solid communication or coordination and expecting to win.
Being a avid board war gamer for over 30 years I've found you just should not send green units up against elites unit.
And expect a good outcome.
Is it possible for them to win?
Yes sure, but very rarely.
So really whose fault is that?