139 replies to this topic

[AdamBaines]

Mystere, on 19 April 2016 - 09:47 AM, said:

Game development, or any large software development project for that matter, needs a solid and well laid out plan. Do you think PGI actually had one at the start?

No

Quote

Do you think PGI had one when they announced that CW "will be out 90 days after release"?

No

Quote

Do you think they have one now?

Do you still remember that "paper napkin" anecdote?

Actually yes, I do. I have been here as long as anyone else and experienced the really poor things that happened in the past, but its the past. They have done a lot to prove that the other items you outlined were in the past. The communication alone proves that. The detailed release notes, the monthly town halls, the new peeks into their day to day work in the form of the twitch streams.

I cant buy into the fact that they don't plan well still. If you think that your just holding onto the past. You may not LIKE their plan, but they plan.

Edit: Changed a tense

Edited by AdamBaines, 20 April 2016 - 06:06 AM.

[DarkMetalBlade]

Honestly, my only complaint with the solo queue system is that once you're locked in, you've got little time to set up your drop-deck if you haven't set it up ahead of time. One minute to get a drop deck ready is nowhere near enough.

Edit: Didn't notice the little tab at the bottom that lets me get my deck ready. FML...

Edited by DarkMetalBlade, 19 April 2016 - 12:12 PM.

[gloowa]

Sader, i like you, but i get tired of your pgi bashing.
I connected today, and saw improvement in every corner. Not a revolution. Improvement.

Sader325, on 19 April 2016 - 04:18 AM, said:

In order to get one match in CW for ever faction its going to take over 500 people playing simultaneously equally across all factions.

That is completely wrong. Get your combinatorics right.

Depending on circumstances, that number will vary from 5*24 == 120 (when all 10 factions form pairs in which they fight and are at peace with everyone else) to 10*9*24 == 19440 (when each faction is at war with each other faction and has an attack lane - very unlikely).

Asumming on average faction has 1.5 lanes open, that's 360 players.





Seriously dude, love your twitch content, but sometimes you need to hold your horses. Like for instance when you start bashing pgi on TS for low CW population 10 minutes after servers went live, and half the people in the chanell was still patching. And yet, 1h later there is 7 simultaneous drops on FRR-Ghost Bear lane, in invasion queue only. Take a chill pill, let things settle, and then try to look at them, as objectively as possible. Not this emotional crap.

Edited by gloowa, 19 April 2016 - 12:14 PM.

[Triordinant]

LOL, it sounds like Dec. 2014 all over again with all the complaints, predictions and speculation. I'll wait at least a month (just like last time) for the dust to settle and all the adjustments, hot-fixes and resets to take place before I even think of passing judgment and deciding whether or not I want to play FW.

[Shakespeare]

If nothing else, the careers tabs and contracts pages make way more sense to me. I figured out what was what in about 5 secs. That's improvement any way you look at it.

[DrxAbstract]

Scout Derek, on 19 April 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

Pink is for banned forum member.

So you give Pink to banned forumites, but not to our gundams?

Mediocre.

[MischiefSC]

So you can drop solo queue, take worlds and totally avoidunits.

You have 1 attack lane.

Taking worlds still doesn't mean much.

Still no impetus for units to fight units.

With solo loyalists voting you still have randoms and don'tcares blocking units from coordinating a faction.

4v4 is okay.

Big units screwed many ways. So they will break and sync up for minimal change.

[hybrid black]

Johnny Z, on 19 April 2016 - 03:34 AM, said:

He cant be serious. One of the best updates to any game ever breaking new ground in faction play for any game and a weak complaint like that. Trying to be funny obviously.

If this wasn't what looks to be a completely amazing update I would say so. Of course opinions differ but this is even a better update for units. I am an independent player.

Anyway, what ever.

Don't you play other games? None of this is ground breaking lol

MischiefSC, on 19 April 2016 - 02:38 PM, said:

So you can drop solo queue, take worlds and totally avoidunits.

You have 1 attack lane.

Taking worlds still doesn't mean much.

Still no impetus for units to fight units.

With solo loyalists voting you still have randoms and don'tcares blocking units from coordinating a faction.

4v4 is okay.

Big units screwed many ways. So they will break and sync up for minimal change.

Big organized units are fine

Big units are ******

[Scout Derek]

DrxAbstract, on 19 April 2016 - 02:28 PM, said:

So PGI gives Pink to banned forumites, but not to our gundams?

Mediocre.

That's who gave you pink, not me.

[MechaBattler]

TexAce, on 19 April 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

and you really were hoping for this on this patch?
like really....?

without them EVER talking about it, not in the town halls, not even mentioning it....

It seems to me a lot of you guys need to manage your expectations.



yeah piss off 90% of the population for what reasons again?
I'd let them rather piss off the other 10% like this thread is showing.

Yeahhh. What was I thinking... It's not like Russ once teased us with the possibility of tank and Elemental consumables.

Heaven forbid they try anything creative or interesting. Instead we just get bigger artillery strikes and bigger UAV effect. So like always the "major content" is just a rehash of existing mechanics. But then the community seems to get upset when they try to come up with new mechanics.

Having watched the development of the game for so long. I guess I shouldn't have dared to suggest anything otherwise.

[Azumazi]

The only thing I want to know is, which isn't listed in the patch notes is with Merc units now does that mean we can use IS/Clan mechs with merc units in both IS and Clan battles?

Meaning, can you bring an IS mech as a merc under contract with the clans and vice versa?

[Sader325]

gloowa, on 19 April 2016 - 12:14 PM, said:

Sader, i like you, but i get tired of your pgi bashing.
I connected today, and saw improvement in every corner. Not a revolution. Improvement.


That is completely wrong. Get your combinatorics right.

Depending on circumstances, that number will vary from 5*24 == 120 (when all 10 factions form pairs in which they fight and are at peace with everyone else) to 10*9*24 == 19440 (when each faction is at war with each other faction and has an attack lane - very unlikely).

Asumming on average faction has 1.5 lanes open, that's 360 players.





Seriously dude, love your twitch content, but sometimes you need to hold your horses. Like for instance when you start bashing pgi on TS for low CW population 10 minutes after servers went live, and half the people in the chanell was still patching. And yet, 1h later there is 7 simultaneous drops on FRR-Ghost Bear lane, in invasion queue only. Take a chill pill, let things settle, and then try to look at them, as objectively as possible. Not this emotional crap.

You didn't include 4v4 and didn't take into account unit and solo queue, also you get 1 attack lane.

If all factions are split evenly. Fighting each other it takes 640 people to ensure 1 match across all the possible queues.

Edited by Sader325, 19 April 2016 - 04:26 PM.

[Kyrie]

I am not sure what to make of Faction Play mark 3 yet. I suppose its an improvement, but its just not what I am looking for (see my signature). I want an actual implementation of strategy in faction play, and integration of House to House warfare at both tactical and strategic layers...

We aint there yet.

[Sniper09121986]

DarkMetalBlade, on 19 April 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:

Honestly, my only complaint with the solo queue system is that once you're locked in, you've got little time to set up your drop-deck if you haven't set it up ahead of time. One minute to get a drop deck ready is nowhere near enough.

Edit: Didn't notice the little tab at the bottom that lets me get my deck ready. FML...

Eh, where is that tab? Are you freelancer? I absolutely could not select anything when I was not slated for a drop. These calls to arms are so sporadic one simply has no time to react.

MischiefSC, on 19 April 2016 - 02:38 PM, said:

So you can drop solo queue, take worlds and totally avoid units.

You have 1 attack lane.

Taking worlds still doesn't mean much.

Still no impetus for units to fight units.

With solo loyalists voting you still have randoms and don'tcares blocking units from coordinating a faction.

4v4 is okay.

Big units screwed many ways. So they will break and sync up for minimal change.

You are right about the sync exploit and a single attack lane, but the rest... where do I even start?

The main purpose of units in CW was to farm loyalty rewards from all the factions at the sufferance of uncoordinated pugs. Now everyone will actually be able to have a fair game, and one-man units should know what they are getting themselves into.

There was a unit member mouthing off at Reddit yesterday about how MC rewards for planets is not enough for their interest. Like he is doing players or PGI a favour playing the game. Disgusting. Maybe the rewards really are a bit low, but this is just a game, a F2P game, I might add. Nobody owes anybody here, even if someone is a Microsoft-size outfit with officials and a general party line and stuff.

For coordination you have faction subsections on the forum. Go there, make a running coordination topic and let people mouth off and watch the drama engage in a constructive discussion of faction strategy. No easy programming crutch for making people think and communicate, but if people need crutches for THAT these days...

Azumazi, on 19 April 2016 - 04:13 PM, said:

The only thing I want to know is, which isn't listed in the patch notes is with Merc units now does that mean we can use IS/Clan mechs with merc units in both IS and Clan battles?

Meaning, can you bring an IS mech as a merc under contract with the clans and vice versa?

I guess not, you would have to select a different drop deck. I know, deck presets, mech Favourites section, all of these would be major usability improvements, but currently we have what we have.

[gloowa]

Sader325, on 19 April 2016 - 04:25 PM, said:

You didn't include 4v4 and didn't take into account unit and solo queue, also you get 1 attack lane.

If all factions are split evenly. Fighting each other it takes 640 people to ensure 1 match across all the possible queues.

Yes, for queues. You were talking about lanes before, but whatever, if we look @ the queues, then it's 560 minimum, and around 750 average with 1.5 lanes open per faction. That's not really a very high number, asumming separate queue will make pugs stick to CW more.

All i know, is i had more fun yesterday evening compared to two days ago evening.

[MischiefSC]

Sniper09121986, on 20 April 2016 - 01:46 AM, said:

Eh, where is that tab? Are you freelancer? I absolutely could not select anything when I was not slated for a drop. These calls to arms are so sporadic one simply has no time to react.



You are right about the sync exploit and a single attack lane, but the rest... where do I even start?

The main purpose of units in CW was to farm loyalty rewards from all the factions at the sufferance of uncoordinated pugs. Now everyone will actually be able to have a fair game, and one-man units should know what they are getting themselves into.

There was a unit member mouthing off at Reddit yesterday about how MC rewards for planets is not enough for their interest. Like he is doing players or PGI a favour playing the game. Disgusting. Maybe the rewards really are a bit low, but this is just a game, a F2P game, I might add. Nobody owes anybody here, even if someone is a Microsoft-size outfit with officials and a general party line and stuff.

For coordination you have faction subsections on the forum. Go there, make a running coordination topic and let people mouth off and watch the drama engage in a constructive discussion of faction strategy. No easy programming crutch for making people think and communicate, but if people need crutches for THAT these days...



I guess not, you would have to select a different drop deck. I know, deck presets, mech Favourites section, all of these would be major usability improvements, but currently we have what we have.

Wow. I'm at a loss as to how much you don't understand about factions and teams. About 1/3rd of all units were loyalists. A significant part of the remaining 2/3rds are technically loyalist still but took the Merc tag to max out the new Merc rewards plus higher merc benefits. There's no real perk to being an actual loyalist over a merc until you max out the merc rewards. The point of units was never, ever, at any point, to farm out pugs to get rewards. It was to play as a group to have people to drop with and coordinate with.

If there are no real rewards to playing CW as a unit, to taking planets and actually investing effort and energy into creating a faction wide war then why do it? So if they cut payouts for Skirmish in half would you still play it instead of other game modes because... reasons? No, you'd play what got you the most rewards. People play games to get rewards. That's the payoff. The 'win' in a game like this.

Most factions are already communicating and coordinating in their faction chat and private faction forums on what their strategies are. The real problem is getting members to participate because it's a lot more effort (and waiting in queue) for an insignificant change in reward. You play a game to get to a goal, a reward, a McGuffin. If that's not compelling enough to motivate you then the game is bad. It's that simple. Dots on a map with no real impact on anything? Not compelling for the majority of people - which is why CW is in the position it's in.

[Sniper09121986]

MischiefSC, on 20 April 2016 - 02:59 AM, said:

People play games to get rewards.

Personally I play games to entertain myself and relax after a job where I work to get rewards, but to each his own, I guess.

[HighTest]

Not everyone plays for just the rewards. But the rewards do help in a game that has progression. And a heck of a lot of mechs and equipment and stuff to buy.

People can drop 3 QP games in 45 minutes and they can make X amount of Cbills and Y amount of XP in those 3 matches. Of course X and Y are contingent on victories and personal performance, but chances are you'd win at least 1 of the 3 matches.

The other option is to sit in CW queue for 15 minutes to play a 30 minute match (also 45 minutes, for those mathematically challenged), and if it's a ROFL-stomp as many are, you make much less than X Cbills and Y XP, plus have had to endure the painful 15 minute wait to even drop. And frankly even if you do win, you can still often do better in 3 QP matches.

The analysis, assuming the above situation is true, which I believe in most cases that it is:
1. You generally make fewer rewards playing a single CW match than 3 QP matches.
2. You usually have to sit on your thumb for 15 minutes to find a CW match when you could actually be playing a QP match and having more fun. And if CW matchmaking is bad (which it often is due to the poor player pool to match people up from), you're stuck in a not-so-fun match for 30 minutes.

No wonder no one plays CW and the queues are usually empty.

CW cannot survive unless you bring players into it, period. Tinkering with this whole freelancer/mercenary/loyalist and unit invitation cost business is NOT going to solve this problem. In fact, I'll probably chase people away, making CW matchmaking even worse, thus chasing even more players away. A vicious cycle.

In summary: (or tl;dr)

PGI needs to spend time making CW more fun and more rewarding for many more people if CW is going to survive. All these other changes have just been a waste of resources and frankly (imho) are likely to do the opposite.

[DoctorDetroit]

Sniper09121986, on 20 April 2016 - 03:22 AM, said:

Personally I play games to entertain myself and relax after a job where I work to get rewards, but to each his own, I guess.

There is a lot more psychology to game playing than you seem to be aware.

[Sniper09121986]

DoctorDetroit, on 20 April 2016 - 05:54 AM, said:

There is a lot more psychology to game playing than you seem to be aware.

Oh, but I am aware of lots of "psycho" things thanks to this forum