25 replies to this topic

[Veev]

Can get rid of the arbitrary quirks and replace them with a system that we the pilots can adjust? Instead of seeing a mech on the battlefield and knowing its quirks, would it not be more interesting to not know?

The system I would propose uses the modules system. Add another type of modules. These modules come with a base set equipped, like current weapon systems. They can purchase other ones to change out. All current quirks are adjusted to modules and can be equipped. You can stack more than 1 on a mech but it offers diminishing returns.
IE 1st module offers 10% buff, 2 modules each offer 8%, 3 modules offer 7%, 4 modules are 6%, let them do that 5th module at 5% and lock it at 5 modules max to prevent the crazy from hurting themselves.

Assign weapon slots and ECM slots a value. Then to balance low slot mech's give them more quirk module slots that can be changed.
Omni-mechs are hard capped and cannot be changed.


This is a slap together idea and it can be better fleshed out, but it would make things more interesting.

[SockSlayer]

I'm not for getting rid of quirks without new weapons added ingame.

[VinJade]

to be honest quirks are nothing but a crutch for russ or it could be also a way to give the clans a big middle finger wby using quirks to make IS Mechs better, after all look at how 90% of clans ether have no quirks or hefty negatives leveled against them.

they need to actually just out right remove quirks and just go with the basic Mod system they already have in place.

[Livaria]

Ah, people that want to get rid of quirks... Here we go again.

[VinJade]

don't get me wrong Liva I use a Stalker so I would lose a lot but to be honest it is nothing but ether a crutch or a way of giving the clans the middle finger if not both.

[Kaeb Odellas]

VinJade, on 19 April 2016 - 10:01 AM, said:

to be honest quirks are nothing but a crutch for russ or it could be also a way to give the clans a big middle finger wby using quirks to make IS Mechs better, after all look at how 90% of clans ether have no quirks or hefty negatives leveled against them.

they need to actually just out right remove quirks and just go with the basic Mod system they already have in place.

Clan mechs don't get quirks because they have a much better tech base. Smaller, lighter weapons, more compact DHS and upgrades, and XL engines that don't kill you on ST loss are a pretty massive advantage. IS mechs need quirks to compete. It's basic stuff.

[Karl Streiger]

well the main issues are while clowns get all the good stuff not all of them get the good stuff.
Things would be interesting when they could upgrade stuff once for twice the BT costs. Say Summoner with ES+FF+3JJs+2Internal Heatsinks instead of STD+FF+5JJs+4Internal Heatsinks

[Veev]

VinJade, on 19 April 2016 - 07:20 PM, said:

don't get me wrong Liva I use a Stalker so I would lose a lot but to be honest it is nothing but ether a crutch or a way of giving the clans the middle finger if not both.

Kaeb Odellas, on 20 April 2016 - 01:55 AM, said:

Clan mechs don't get quirks because they have a much better tech base. Smaller, lighter weapons, more compact DHS and upgrades, and XL engines that don't kill you on ST loss are a pretty massive advantage. IS mechs need quirks to compete. It's basic stuff.

Karl Streiger, on 20 April 2016 - 02:02 AM, said:

well the main issues are while clowns get all the good stuff not all of them get the good stuff.
Things would be interesting when they could upgrade stuff once for twice the BT costs. Say Summoner with ES+FF+3JJs+2Internal Heatsinks instead of STD+FF+5JJs+4Internal Heatsinks

Please read the whole post before replying. It is obvious you either did not read it or were incapable of comprehending it. Either way, please learn to read first and respond after comprehension of read material is achieved.

[Coryphee]

Grettings mechwarriors,

As Veev suggests, if you want to participate in a constructive way to this thread, please read at least the first post.

Posting only after reading Thread title or few last posts can create a misunderstanding situation.

[Karl Streiger]

Apologize for my behaviour - sometimes you get dumbed down by all the to similar often strange suggestions. Didn't want to insult
So you are suggesting that the skill / pilot tree is merged with quirk skill tree but rather than a pure XP tree you would choose the c-bill + XP module path.

The quirk sets are for example PPC Quirks (heat gen, range, velocity)

The advantage is obviously - currently I'm searching for a jump capable synchron PPC + SRM Carrier (Catapult Quickdraw non would have PPC Quirks now - but your system would allow that.

Am I right so far?

[VinJade]

@ Karl no need to say sorry to them clearly they didn't seem to have been able to understand where we was coming from as you and I more or less already rehashed what we said just in more detail.

I just think Veev didn't like the replies he was getting.

To Veev & Coryphee
Fine I will go in to detail to explain my opinion on getting rid of quirks one piece at a time so it can be comprehended by the OP.

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Can get rid of the arbitrary quirks and replace them with a system that we the pilots can adjust?

Why?
The quirk system over all is broken and to allow the player to 'adjust' the system themselves is not needed as it would give the player way to much control over a system that can be abused in some way or give some players an unfair edge.

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Instead of seeing a mech on the battlefield and knowing its quirks, would it not be more interesting to not know?

No not really, as it is a machine with normal specs and only thing that should be changeable are the weapons and equipment.

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The system I would propose uses the modules system.

Why?
There shouldn't be that much that can be changed.
I already have a hard time seeing the mod system we already have that takes up no weight or space other than a slot.

I'll use the Missile's range mod for example;
in order to increase the range you need to increase the amount of fuel it has which means a slightly larger Missile and that would have to cut the amount of missiles per ton you get.

however the Mod systems allows you to do this for free in terms of tonnage & Crit.

the same goes for the Laser & PPCs.
in the Game the PPCs you can use another piece of equipment to give the PPC more range and Damage however that came at the cost of tonnage and crit space.

this also bugs me with the quirk system as well as it makes no sense at all(let alone the neg quirks the Timber Wolf has)

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Add another type of modules. These modules come with a base set equipped, like current weapon systems.

this one I am a little fuzzy one care to go into more detail?

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All current quirks are adjusted to modules and can be equipped. You can stack more than 1 on a mech but it offers diminishing returns.

again this is something that just does not make sense, if you want to increase something like Laser duration, Missile range, faster recycle time, ect they would have to be equipment side in other words take tonnage & Crits to do so.

just stuffing in a weightless & critless thing(mod slots do not count as crit space) should not even be an option.

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IE 1st module offers 10% buff, 2 modules each offer 8%, 3 modules offer 7%, 4 modules are 6%, let them do that 5th module at 5% and lock it at 5 modules max to prevent the crazy from hurting themselves.

That's the thing there is no negative side effect or no different than the current quirk system that we already have.. no I would say far worse than what we already have.

as it is your system would allow a player to have a 76% increase in range, damage, recycle time, ect.

If someone used that in Laser range, that would undo the nerf that they put in place for the laser weapons(they did that for a reason you know).

There is just so many ways to abuse the system as there seems to be no checks or balances with it.

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Assign weapon slots and ECM slots a value.

Please elaborate on this.

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Then to balance low slot mech's give them more quirk module slots that can be changed.

No, just no
see my reason above

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Omni-mechs are hard capped and cannot be changed.

If that is the case shouldn't they get the max slots as Omnis was designed to have great customization capabilities?

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This is a slap together idea and it can be better fleshed out, but it would make things more interesting.

Yes that it was.

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but it would make things more interesting

actually it wouldn't
it would just cause more of a mess and making some things over powered than they already are.

just removing the quirk system all together would be better but instead we are getting a crutch or band-aid fix which is all they are to try and 'balance' everything out.

my views on the quirk system comes from how they are broken or a underhanded way of screwing the clan mechs with negative quirks because of how much Russ and Co hates the Clan stuff.

and yes that has everything to do with this topic because that would force Russ to give all mechs across the board the ability to be over powered and then more of a headache on balancing everything again(and to find new ways to screw over clan players).

In the end I hope this fleshed out my reply so you don't have to worry about me not 'understanding' or not have read the post.

though on a side note I wonder if Veev contacted the mods because I see no other reason for one to show up when we have other topics where we have similar 'problems' of poster not able to 'comprehend' or 'unable to read', blah, blah, blah.

Edited by VinJade, 20 April 2016 - 09:09 AM.

[Death Proof]

I like each mech having unique quirks.

That said, I also like the idea of players being able to customize their mechs' specialties.

Instead of trashing the current quirk system, I rather see the pilot skill tree work in tandem with the mech's quirks, allowing players to specialize further into various strengths available to the mech.

So, for example, if a mech had mobility and weapon quirks, the player could choose to specialize further into its mobility quirks instead of going further into its weapon quirks. Or they could choose to strike a compromise between the two areas, by unlocking a few elite quirks in each area, but not fully mastering either of them.

XP would be capped on each variant to prevent players from unlocking all of the mech's potential quirks. Any excess XP earned with that variant would go into the mech's "overflow" XP pool just as if it were fully mastered in the current system.

Or..something like that. I just would hate to see mechs lose their individual unique quirks that the current systems provides.

[VinJade]

@DP
That's the thing though with the quirk system, things like weapon ranges be it Energy, Ballistic, or Missiles, they come free where is they should be done on weapon side.

You want longer range then you will have to pay for it in tonnage & Crit space, for example range increase on all weapons would have to have something that gives them that boost.

Missiles would require more fuel thus needing to be bigger which would cut the amount of missile per ton. Lasers & PPCs would need an extra piece of equipment to do so and so on.

the quirks & mods come with no cost to them at all which they should.

Edited by VinJade, 20 April 2016 - 09:29 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

So its seems that i did understand it.
The effect is simple. Your current idea of a module quirk system would have the same effect as completely remove all quirks and bring us back to the pre-quirk level.
How so?
Simple. Just stay with my example of a heavy mech with dual ppc and dual srm racks.
Say 65tons - i can have three options. JaegerMech A; Catapult C1 and serveral Thunderbolts.

Considering i take for all mechs the same modules - everything is up to geometry hitboxes and hardpoint placement.

Next considering that other players would take other modules any balance issue is just multipled. say 3 large laser with maximum quirks vs 2 PPCs with maximum quirk - both combination have already issues without any quirk or module modification but it will increase. (duration quirk > velocity quirk)

Well maybe it could help when each of your module has a flaw. For example you add the large laser duration quirk but you loose range. To counter the loose of range you add a range quirk but you get more heat... so you may be able to counter most negative effects with other modules but in the end you only gain a tiny advantage.
But again this coould be said for all other mechs either.

Quirks is a good idea - the icing of the cake and to have multiple aspects in each module is of course a good feature. But to have this system everything have to be equal first

[Livaria]

It's just that I've come across a lot of similar suggestions. I just don't quite see the merit in removing them and replacing it with a changed module system.

Edited by Livaria, 20 April 2016 - 05:20 PM.

[Veev]

The merit is that it helps because you never know what quirks the enemy you are facing is going to have. It also makes the game more interesting in the shop. I know most pilots anymore want meta mechs alone and have not developed the skill required to pilot something they themselves came up with.
@Karl you are kind of missing the point.
AS to everyone else, I am not a clanner. I play every mech for every faction. I am a mercenary. This is not a buff the clans thread. This is give us more options in the mechlab. Why should I suffer by choosing to play a mech that is quirked one way? Where is the Battletech experience when I can longer modify it without taking a biased arbitrary penalty by doing so?

[Vanguard319]

I agree, in particular the Inner Sphere armor and structure quirks need to go. Clan weapons already have inferior damage output due to practically all of them having DoT and a slower rate of fire. Inner sphere mechs don't need superior protection on top of it.

Edited by Vanguard319, 20 April 2016 - 02:54 PM.

[VinJade]

@VG
I agree, I see this system as something that would leave the clans even further behind while giving the IS a larger edge than it already has.

The OP already stated he isn't a clanner(nor am I) and it is clear that he most likely wouldn't really be hurt by it.

also there is another problem I have with this, new players tend to put all of their money into one or two good mechs and many are just causal players who cannot play for hours upon hours to rack up money for every mod they would need to even become even close to competitive with players that had been playing for a long time or real life money to burn just to get the needed C-bills for those mods.

In the end this would turn this game into a pay to Win because you would have to buy MCs just to stay competitive and that is something Russ said he would never turn this game into(And I respect the man for this as well).

So in the end maybe that's what the OP wants to do, make this a pay to win because that way he would always have an edge over other players.

as much as I hate quirks at least the way they have it set up now is across the board for all mechs, not favoring anyone player.

@OP,
You really don't want to bring the TT in this, I have been playing since the late 80s(I grew up playing BT) and I know for a fact BT was never able to give you such 'freedom' as everything you to have would be a game breaker, so lets not try to bring the real BT game into this.

[AmazingOnionMan]

I like quirks. I do not like the way quirks are being used as a desperate band-aid to smooth out questionable design and game balance.
My suggestion is to wipe the slate clean, balance the game using actual game design, and re-add quirks to give chassis boons and banes to support the lore, roles and fun gameplay. They seem to be on the right track with the Cyclops' sensor-quirk. Expanded module-quirks aren't a horrible idea.
But I don't work at PGI (which is probably for the best).

Edited by AmazingOnionMan, 21 April 2016 - 06:52 AM.

[VinJade]

@AOM
the problem is that not everyone plays competitively and being able to add your own quirk style idea would in the end turn it into a pay to win game.

think about it, what if the player was able to stack 2 15%, 2 10%, & 5% range bonus on lasers?
you would be looking at a 55% bonus and with them most likely being more costly than the standard mods we have now and would odds are turn this into a pay to win game which is something they said they wouldn't do.