45 replies to this topic

[C E Dwyer]

Juodas Varnas, on 19 April 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

I, for one, think that it's not quirks that the Vindicators need, right now.

It's hardpoints.
Give all of the variants extra hardpoints (they do have the geometry to support it).
Give the 1R - 5E and 2M hardpoints
The SIB - 4E and 3M hardpoints
The 1X - 3E and 2M and 3B hardpoints
The 1AA - 5E and 1M hardpoints

(I'd also increase the engine-caps to 250 on 1R and 1X models, SIB already has this and 1AA has a higher one)
And voilà!
Vindicators are probably meh-tier instead of trash-tier!

Can say that about any mech with 6 or less, because they can boat more, your suggestions, will of course make it better because it can meta more, I'd much rather see them quirk it to where mechs that can't boat can be average, and not simply bad.

Yes I said the Q word, and we all didn't want them to be the thing that makes or breaks a mech, but, until the game gets a complete rebuild, quirks it is.

I'd like to see missiles short and long, except streaks get a buff, I'd like to see PPC's get buffed again I'd like to see ballistic's buffed, so that the strangle hold Lasers have on the meta is broken.

[_____]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 April 2016 - 09:59 AM, said:

If anything the new quirks are trying to shift it away from that, since they gave it increased PPC velocity and increased ballistic cooldown (which can't be brawling since it can't mount a 20).

Well we've seen that the AC10/SRM4 SHD-2D2 is a pretty solid brawler, so the weapon combo itself is legit.

On the 1X, the AC/10 + single SRM4 with the new cooldown values deliver some OK sustained DPS on the 1X. Plus the energy heatgen and cooldown quirks without a range quirk. The massive agility quirks. The ST/CT structure quirks that the other Vindys don't get. These look like brawly quirks to me and as I said probably looks that way to PGI. OR maybe the term brawl doesn't sit well with you for this kind of playstyle. Short-range skirmish? It's basically what the Huginn did before (but less effective than the Huginn).

You're may also be thinking of ballistic PPC poke/poptart, but I think that's probably option 2 than option 1 imo. The PPC and ballistic velocity quirks are the only two weapon quirks that contribute to that playstyle than the four that I see contributing to brawl/skirmish or however you want to word it. For the record I played that as well, just not enough damage output to justify it even in long-ish matches.

Edited by BlackhawkSC, 22 April 2016 - 12:18 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

BlackhawkSC, on 22 April 2016 - 11:25 AM, said:

Well we've seen that the AC10/SRM4 SHD-2D2 is a pretty solid brawler, so the weapon combo itself is legit.

There is a big difference between the 2 however, one has 4 SRM4s, the other has 1. The main power behind the 2D2 brawler is not the AC10, let me assure you of that (cooldown or not). The Shadow Hawk also manages to run faster and have solid mounts unlike the Vindicator which another reason the Shadow Hawk is solid (high mounts all you to "poke" with broken terrain).

BlackhawkSC, on 22 April 2016 - 11:25 AM, said:

Short-range skirmish? It's basically what the Huginn did before (but less effective than the Huginn).

There is a big difference between the Huginn of old and the VND-1X, perhaps the biggest being the speed and size difference, with weapon profiles being the other main difference.

BlackhawkSC, on 22 April 2016 - 11:25 AM, said:

You're may also be thinking of ballistic PPC poke/poptart, but I think that's probably option 2 than option 1 imo. The PPC and ballistic velocity quirks are the only two weapon quirks that contribute to that playstyle than the four that I see contributing to brawl/skirmish or however you want to word it. For the record I played that as well, just not enough damage output to justify it even in long-ish matches.

I don't think either is worth it, but considering the way PGI works, I wouldn't be surprised if that was their reasoning for some of these buffs. That said, dakka with maybe some backup lasers is the strongest role for this, but the mounts make it not so conducive to that.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 22 April 2016 - 12:26 PM.

[Gyrok]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 19 April 2016 - 05:18 PM, said:

most of the quirk changes do that. Look at the firestarter lol flamer range quirk

To which I say...

"Crack is plentiful..."

Discuss.

Edited by Gyrok, 22 April 2016 - 12:43 PM.

[_____]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 April 2016 - 12:25 PM, said:

There is a big difference between the 2 however, one has 4 SRM4s, the other has 1. The main power behind the 2D2 brawler is not the AC10, let me assure you of that (cooldown or not). The Shadow Hawk also manages to run faster and have solid mounts unlike the Vindicator which another reason the Shadow Hawk is solid (high mounts all you to "poke" with broken terrain).

I understand that which is why I specifically pointed out the AC10/SRM4 combo rather than drawing a direct comparison between the two. SRM4s are definitely primary but without the AC10, the 2D2 wouldn't be nearly as differentiated in a brawl compared with other mediums. Yeah you can SRM poke with the highish mounts but that's like a third of your typical engagement time. The rest is straight up DPS, and in those scenarios, the 2D2 would have a lot of competition in the medium space if it was just 4xSRM4 plus lasers.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 April 2016 - 12:25 PM, said:

There is a big difference between the Huginn of old and the VND-1X, perhaps the biggest being the speed and size difference, with weapon profiles being the other main difference.

My comment was to point out that the playstyle is similar, as in get behind ****, throw in some alphas and leave. Of course as we both stated the Huginn does it better.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 April 2016 - 12:25 PM, said:

I don't think either is worth it, but considering the way PGI works, I wouldn't be surprised if that was their reasoning for some of these buffs. That said, dakka with maybe some backup lasers is the strongest role for this, but the mounts make it not so conducive to that.

I would agree that's probably the best way to play the VND-1X. As you alluded to I have the Grid Iron to do exactly the same thing with better mounts. Going back again to a few posts earlier, my purpose was to point out what PGI thinks it should be, not what the community considers to be the best build. I run the brawl/skirmish build because it's by far not the worst way to run the 1X and I don't have any other mech that does exactly the same thing.

Anyways this is getting quite a bit off topic from your OP. We both agree that the Vindies in general need better quirks if PGI isn't willing to add hardpoints.

Edited by BlackhawkSC, 22 April 2016 - 01:31 PM.

[MauttyKoray]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 April 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

So the recent quirk pass definitely missed the mark like many other quirks this pass.

First, dissipation does not make up for the lack of heat gen quirks compared to its counterparts. The massive 30% heat gen quirk for PPCs that the BJ-3 gets allows it to be almost heat neutral with skills firing 2 PPCs (~91%) while the VND-1R which is the closest to the BJ-3 is only around 3/4 that (~76%), not factoring in cooldown quirks mind you. Heat Gen quirks are king in the current environment for energy boats.

Second, SIB changes were #Mediocre, you removed the fairly pointless duration quirk, but only gave it 5% heat gen in turn, which even with the dissipation quirk isn't a big deal. Is it really too much to ask for it to get the 1X's missile cooldown quirk and structure buffs, because that would be a great starting point. Improved accel/decel is nice but without all the other factors like durability or firepower being good is sort of pointless.

Third, the 1X buffs all over the place, PPC velocity buff is pointless since you can only mount 1, and the velocity desync's them from potential combinations for ballistics (AC5s/AC10s). The ballistic cooldown however is nice, since it is general unlike the BJ-1, but it would be nice to get the range/velocity quirk of the BJ-1 considering the 1X should be using AC5/10s which are slower projectiles. Also, seriously give the SIB the 1X's worthless missile cooldown.

Fourth, no 1AA quirks? Seriously even the 1AA is mediocre. Give it some structure quirks like the 1X and some mild accel/decel quirks.

Wold have to look at the others, but those accel/decel quirks for the 1AA are agreed. The thing is a guerrilla fighter at its core with all those JJs. Manueverability quirks on the 1AA would go a long way.