255 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Problem is that scouting isn't being decided units vs units but scrub obviously scrub, where no skill streaks dominate.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Reptilizer, on 20 April 2016 - 02:40 PM, said:

But when you place two players that are not that good^tm on different sides and one wins constantly while the other loses constantly, something IS WRONG WITH THE MODE.

It is more a problem that they can't fight fire with fire until they get better more than anything. Clans have a noobtube, but IS doesn't really. I will concede that much. I like the mode though, I don't think anything is wrong with it, plus it normally takes a bit for people to learn how to play it, even I'm not sure what is the most optimal way (outside of River City with the super close spawns which practically force the brawl).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 20 April 2016 - 02:48 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Reptilizer, on 20 April 2016 - 02:40 PM, said:

It would be funny if it were not so sad.
So on point to what is happening here and at the same time so missing the mark...

Most players do NOT know how to play the game as good as you do. And they never will.
Still the game should be fun for them (lest you create an exclusive elite-mode, which should be named as such). In the end you need the population to have a game like MWO...
People not that good^tm or that wise will very constantly lose in this lopsided mode. They will not L2P well, you probably will never even reach them.
But when you place two players that are not that good^tm on different sides and one wins constantly while the other loses constantly, something IS WRONG WITH THE MODE.

What is sad is I am not a comp tier player. I'm at best, High average. Old with a crippled right hand. Slow reflexes. I am only moderately good because I adapt, and listen and make changes and listen to the people better than I am (well some very good players are true imbeciles at balance) but you can only dumb things down so far.

I wish game balance COULD be made from the bottom up, but it doesn't work that way. It starts at the top and trickles down.

At some point, there has to be a minimum expectation of skill. And honestly, MWOs is not that impressive, compared to most games I have played, it's downright easy.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 20 April 2016 - 03:24 PM.

[Iron Buccaneer]

We're actually having a slightly harder time against non Streak Crow groups.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Iron Buccaneer, on 20 April 2016 - 03:21 PM, said:

We're actually having a slightly harder time against non Streak Crow groups.

I can't imagine the more useful weapons put onto a scrow make them harder to fight! Heresy! /s

[Jun Watarase]

I played a few scouting matches last night. Had a really close fight against brawler shadowhawks/griffins...about half the matches were pretty typical, until people started showing up in meta blackjacks and facetanking my brawler build. It's been months since I played and PGI still hasnt fixed that?

[Tiamat of the Sea]

...funny enough, my main problem with Scout mode right now is the same problem I've had for a little while now in a more general sense- the Jenner IIC running around with SRM36 at over 100 kph. It's not impossible to deal with, but the moment you lose track of it at all, it's 10m behind one of your teammates, most likely killing them in a single volley. In a 4v4, being suddenly down 1/4 of your group because the Jenner IIC was able to do what light 'mechs can do and loop around a different direction than most of the enemy force- or because you had to turn away from it to navigate terrain- is a massive problem for your team. Usually that's when people start falling over, because even if the IIC didn't tear a vital location off, those streaks are going to start hitting it too and wrecking the freshly-exposed internals.

Been seeing streakcrows a lot, no lie, but dual AMS handles that well enough. AMS doing nothing to standard SRMs, though, and the ability of the Jenner IIC to run that absurd loadout.... that's a bit of a tougher problem to cope with.

Edited by Quickdraw Crobat, 20 April 2016 - 08:01 PM.

[maniacos]

Afuldan McKronik, on 20 April 2016 - 02:26 PM, said:

QQ about Streakcrows being overpowered, complaints that we are using our SINGLE 55 ton chassis to its best vs what... 3? 4? No... BJ, Cent, Hunch, Crab, Shadowhawk, Griffin, even the hardpoint limited Wolverine is good in 4v4. We have.. IFR, Hunchie IIC(which is not suited to this game style at all) and Scrow for mediums.

We dont really have a lot of choice in what we bring. We either bring fast mechs, IFR, ACH, JR7-IIC, and hope the enemy went light, or we bring SCR with laser vomit/streak vomit.

If you read the thread you will see, that I already hinted on that in the OP and more clearly wrote about that in later posts. So, the limited choices for Clans was actually *part* of my complain. I also wrote, that ISvIS is more balanced, they have more choices, it more often gets into something else than dropzone/center map skirmish brawl and more often players seek different tactics to win.

So my complain is far from "NERF CLANS THEY OP", it would be total bs to nerf Crows just because they are one of the only meta choices for Clans in this gamemode. They should make the maps bigger, the objectives maybe placed better, and last but not least make the balance to the remaining Clan lights *better* without overpowering them, to give Clans more choices and provide more opportunities for a more interesting gameplay so that an IS drop is not forced to use the 2 mediums that can match a team of SSRM/Laserboat Crow.
So I would rather change the maps and/or objectives to enforce a change how the gamemode is played than downgrading Crows. (The possibly remaining issues with Cheeta are on another paper.)

It's however difficult when people just read the headline and instantly assume "oh another crybaby protesting for 'NERF TEH CLAMS'" and going into defend- respectively trolling-mode.

Edited by maniacos, 20 April 2016 - 11:59 PM.

[Mordin Ashe]

IS has the best Mechs for scouting but I rarely see them in battle. BJs, Hunchies, Gryffins... If you take a slow light Mech you will be killed by streaks even if the enemy only has SSRM6-10 mounted.
Best IS Mechs can jumpsnipe from distance and still keep relatively cool, something no Clan Mech in this weight gap can do. We must pack Streaks or SRMs because everything else is too hot for brawling lights. IS can pack quirked (and INCREDIBLY cool) med pulses which are the true king in this category.

It is as it always has been in Clan vs IS. If your team can survive the initial bursts (jumpsniping, covering, hit and run) then Clanners are too hot to inflict any reliable suistained DPS. Try not to hit Clanners head on and your victory is almost assured.

[MischiefSC]

Shawk 2D with 2xAC5, 3xSRM2. It's a hate fountain and has consistently put up ~500 damage for me against IS or Clans. At the range most people want to brawl at the SRMs are hitting about the same place as the AC5s. Look at the quirks; incredible cooldown quirks the 2xAC5s are on a 1 second cooldown and the SRMs 1.75. It's a firehose of pain.

With modules it's actually right over 16 DPS and very cool. For the mediums its ability to just dissolve Whatever-2C, Streakboats, whatever lights, also against Griffins it's not hard to peel them to internals before they even close to splat range.

Plus if you've got the loyalty version (Phoenix Package) it's got 10% LP bonus and 30% cbill bonus - which makes grinding scout missions literally the most profitable use of time in the game right now for consistent money. Fast matches, spoon fed kills. All I'm missing is tossing Timmy in the well to make it the best possible time.

[Reptilizer]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 April 2016 - 03:21 PM, said:

What is sad is I am not a comp tier player. I'm at best, High average. Old with a crippled right hand. Slow reflexes. I am only moderately good because I adapt, and listen and make changes and listen to the people better than I am (well some very good players are true imbeciles at balance) but you can only dumb things down so far.

I wish game balance COULD be made from the bottom up, but it doesn't work that way. It starts at the top and trickles down.

At some point, there has to be a minimum expectation of skill. And honestly, MWOs is not that impressive, compared to most games I have played, it's downright easy.

That is nonsense.
Game design, especially for F2P, works the other way round.
For competitive play, the game needs a fine balance catered to capable and skilled players.
For regular/quick play you need to balance for a low skill level.
Also the motivation to improve is an important part that already is anchored in the design of the game. You can not "enforce" it afterwards by decree of the elite players.

If you really are interested, extra credit made some nice vids covering part of both aspects:




Edit: Hint -> MWO could need some lessons there...

Edited by Reptilizer, 21 April 2016 - 02:37 AM.

[fat4eyes]

Lower the weight limit to 50, problem solved. Novas are still good in a brawl, but they're no Stormcrow.

Or just give IS CSRM4/6 already, to hell with the timeline.

[Reptilizer]

fat4eyes, on 21 April 2016 - 04:06 AM, said:

Lower the weight limit to 50, problem solved. Novas are still good in a brawl, but they're no Stormcrow.

Or just give IS CSRM4/6 already, to hell with the timeline.

I think lowering the limit does not solve the underlying problem: that it is not worth it to play anything than the heaviest brawler, because it is just a knife fight and nothing else. The crow just happens to be a very good 55ton mech, that is in some configurations very easy to pilot somewhat effectively. IS lacks a noobtube in that weightclass -> thus the disparity when it comes to scoutmode.
Also clanners really do not have that much choice in mechs either way.

Putting in rewards for the actual objective now per hotfix is a step in the right direction though. Now there is some direct incentive to jump in lights and grab as many info as you can get.
We will see if this makes things better.
I sincerely hope so at least.

[Mystere]

fat4eyes, on 21 April 2016 - 04:06 AM, said:

Lower the weight limit to 50, problem solved. Novas are still good in a brawl, but they're no Stormcrow.

Or just give IS CSRM4/6 already, to hell with the timeline.

That is the unimaginative player's knee-jerk solution.

The imaginative player's solution is to remove tonnage restrictions and restrict maps to the largest ones (or better yet, create even more large maps). Let folks bring Steiner scout lances if they so desire.

Reptilizer, on 21 April 2016 - 08:43 AM, said:

I think lowering the limit does not solve the underlying problem ...

It's nothing but a demand to completely remove a single specific mech from the game mode. A solution it most certainly is not.

Edited by Mystere, 21 April 2016 - 08:51 AM.

[Count Zero 74]

Does anyone remember the good old days when everyone was complaining about OP laser vomit ?

Good ol' days.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Count Zero 74, on 21 April 2016 - 09:35 AM, said:

Does anyone remember the good old days when everyone was complaining about OP laser vomit ?

Good ol' days.

Its still there, its just we all rushed out to try scouting mode and suddenly fast mediums are meta.

Or if you actually want to gather intel for max long tom, just bring the 4 fastest mechs you can, gather max intel, never fire a shot. Ever. Its the attacker meta.

Especially with the rewards being added for capping points now. Gather 10 intel, withdraw, wash, repeat. Never fire a shot, make coin, piss off everyone in 12v12 and your opponents that are defending constantly.