37 replies to this topic

[Scurry]

I feel that solo scouting missions are unbalanced in favour of Clans - though not necessarily for the reason you think. While I personally feel IS vs Clans are more-or-less balanced at the top of the scale, there's a problem. The skill floor for IS is a lot lower.

First, looking at weight limits, Clans only have the Stormcrow topping the weight scale, and it's an amazing mech. Easy to build, too - just boat something, whether Streaks, SRMs, pulsers, medium lasers, it can all be effective. On the other hand, the IS has a lot of deathtraps, and it can be difficult to find the right build. The standardization also makes it hard to call targets in PUGs.

There are also two different roles you can build for. Max speed to cap and avoid, or building to engage. Clanside, locked engines mean you can't build for speed, meaning many focus on fighting. IS, however, is split between these design goals - you see a mix of lights and mediums. That makes for poor results against the more specialized Clan PUGs.

From personal experience, the IS has a lot of new players. You can see this in nonsensical loadouts or trial mechs, or if they mention it in chat. It's probably because IS mechs appear cheaper. This creates a disadvantage in solo, worsened by the difficulty of compensating for a less capable member of the team in 4v4. In 12v12, it tends to be a bit easier since the load is spread across more members.

TL;DR Solo CW scouting is a complete crapshoot because of skill floors, role specialization being easier for Clans, and new player population. If you want to play CW, play a team.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Yup.

On the other hand... Group IS with a bunch of std engine dual AMS mechs... trolololol your skill crow is now a 55 ton paper weight.

[Deathlike]

Your problem is primarily not being able to figure out how to counter Streakcrows, and that in some part has less to do with Streaks necessarily (it's very annoying for sure), but moreso not using your brain... since the Streakcrow is literally a one trick pony, and in this instance, happen to be its food by not adapting.

[Scurry]

Deathlike, on 20 April 2016 - 09:27 AM, said:

Your problem is primarily not being able to figure out how to counter Streakcrows, and that in some part has less to do with Streaks necessarily (it's very annoying for sure), but moreso not using your brain... since the Streakcrow is literally a one trick pony, and in this instance, happen to be its food by not adapting.

Nah, I can manage. I'm saying that the IS player population, at large, has a problem, which is why I'm saying solo queue and not team. We're talking people who don't touch the forums. And that's gonna wreck the PUG queue.

Edit: Where new player proportion was an issue with the old 12v12, it's even worse in 4v4.

Edited by Scurry, 20 April 2016 - 09:38 AM.

[Deathlike]

Scurry, on 20 April 2016 - 09:37 AM, said:

Nah, I can manage. I'm saying that the IS player population, at large, has a problem, which is why I'm saying solo queue and not team. We're talking people who don't touch the forums. And that's gonna wreck the PUG queue.

Edit: Where new player proportion was an issue with the old 12v12, it's even worse in 4v4.

Some haven't adapted. Now they are forced to.

For a thinking man's shooter, you'd think people would learn the counters...

[jonfett]

Deathlike, on 20 April 2016 - 09:27 AM, said:

Your problem is primarily not being able to figure out how to counter Streakcrows, and that in some part has less to do with Streaks necessarily (it's very annoying for sure), but moreso not using your brain... since the Streakcrow is literally a one trick pony, and in this instance, happen to be its food by not adapting.

So tell me...what is the best way to counter streakcrows then?

[Deathlike]

jonfett, on 20 April 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

So tell me...what is the best way to counter streakcrows then?

There's AMS... but there's always not taking a Light.

See, even if I told you the counters... you have to still have a brain and skill to make use of it.

For instance, AMS is woefully ineffective if you facetank the Streakcrow. If anything, you'll die just faster.

Giving the answers is one thing - knowing how to properly apply the counter is another matter.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

jonfett, on 20 April 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

So tell me...what is the best way to counter streakcrows then?

ECM, Griffins have better capabilities to outbrawl them. BJ1Xs can rip apart their legs before they get in range.

[kapusta11]

Who in their right mind would bring Streakcrows? What IS will have harder time countering is Splat and MPL crows.

[Almond Brown]

Griffin-2N

provides either ECM or AMS. A mix of 2 and 2 might even be useful if all stay together. There in no I.S. Medium that can outrun the StormCrow without a Large XL (BOOO!), so why bother wasting tonnage trying? Take your 10 DHS and pack her to fight against what you know is coming, the "Streakenator"

P.S. A good 4some could maximize those 8 LPL use as Crows don't run so well on 1 Leg, while 12 Streak 2's should get hits as the SC has no ECM right?

Edited by Almond Brown, 20 April 2016 - 10:08 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

kapusta11, on 20 April 2016 - 09:58 AM, said:

What IS will have harder time countering is Splat and MPL crows.

Neither of those are better than their IS counterparts. Splat Griffin > Splatcrow and BJ-1X > MPL Crow.

[kapusta11]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 20 April 2016 - 10:16 AM, said:

Neither of those are better than their IS counterparts. Splat Griffin > Splatcrow and BJ-1X > MPL Crow.

That oversized Splat 3M with all of its firepower in RT?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

kapusta11, on 20 April 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

That oversized Splat 3M with all of its firepower in RT?

For this, 2N is better because it has ECM and better alpha firepower, which matters more than DPS for lighter end fights where you are the biggest target. 3M is still solid though, and what if its firepower is all in the same spot, that means hitting the same component with your SRMs is much easier (super tight convergence) and you should be running a large XL so that being stripped isn't so much of a concern (though dying is, but you have speed now).

[kapusta11]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 20 April 2016 - 10:21 AM, said:

For this, 2N is better because it has ECM and better alpha firepower, which matters more than DPS for lighter end fights where you are the biggest target. 3M is still solid though, and what if its firepower is all in the same spot, that means hitting the same component with your SRMs is much easier (super tight convergence) and you should be running a large XL so that being stripped isn't so much of a concern (though dying is, but you have speed now).

Should be running XL, in an oversized mech, with no structure qurks? K.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

kapusta11, on 20 April 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:

Should be running XL, in an oversized mech, with no structure qurks? K.

3M has structure quirks in the torso (and leg structure quirks), 2N doesn't but it does have leg structure quirks which is just as important for lighter end drops.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 20 April 2016 - 10:27 AM.

[kapusta11]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 20 April 2016 - 10:27 AM, said:

3M has structure quirks in the torso (and leg structure quirks), 2N doesn't but it does have leg structure quirks which is just as important for lighter end drops.

I know about 3M, that's why I assumed that people were planning to counter Stormcrows with them and not 2Ns. I still don't see how oversized Griffin with XL engine and worse firepower is better than Stormcrow though.

[Alistair Winter]

Deathlike, on 20 April 2016 - 09:27 AM, said:

Your problem is primarily not being able to figure out how to counter Streakcrows, and that in some part has less to do with Streaks necessarily (it's very annoying for sure), but moreso not using your brain... since the Streakcrow is literally a one trick pony, and in this instance, happen to be its food by not adapting.

My problem is primarily that unless I'm dropping with my unit, I can't control what mechs my teammates are bringing. And when they're dropping in their Panthers and Spiders, I can't really carry hard enough. Solo scouting against Clans is indeed hard mode, for this precise reason.

kapusta11, on 20 April 2016 - 09:58 AM, said:

Who in their right mind would bring Streakcrows? What IS will have harder time countering is Splat and MPL crows.

Your skills make you biased.

The answer is "people who don't have good enough aim to consistently win with SRMs and MPLs or SPLs". It's like asking "who would equip training wheels?". Well, people who don't know how to ride a bike. And that's why OP's point is valid. There's a lot of MWO players who perform better with Streaks than other weapons, simply because of their skill level.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

kapusta11, on 20 April 2016 - 10:40 AM, said:

I still don't see how oversized Griffin with XL engine and worse firepower is better than Stormcrow though.

It isn't worse because the spread on the Stormcrow with SRMs is really bad, that's like wondering why people use Griffins over Kintaros (hint, it isn't just because of JJs or hitboxes). There is a reason Griffins have been the top brawling medium since the rebalance, and it has to do with the accuracy combined with solid firepower of their splat.

[Deathlike]

Alistair Winter, on 20 April 2016 - 11:03 AM, said:

My problem is primarily that unless I'm dropping with my unit, I can't control what mechs my teammates are bringing. And when they're dropping in their Panthers and Spiders, I can't really carry hard enough. Solo scouting against Clans is indeed hard mode, for this precise reason.

Welcome to PUG Life, FW Edition.

That's why dropping in groups (ideally through the faction hub) is far more productive.

[Alistair Winter]

Deathlike, on 20 April 2016 - 11:49 AM, said:

Welcome to PUG Life, FW Edition.
That's why dropping in groups (ideally through the faction hub) is far more productive.

Yes, of course. But OP's point is valid. Solo scouting is hard mode. And PGI's idea that new players have to learn the hard way that Faction warfare is mostly for the groups and units, I find a tad harsh. People don't work like that. And devs shouldn't make games by that principle.