88 replies to this topic

[Scout Derek]

Skip to 2:09. Lol.


To be honest, if one allows them the Scouting, then it's your fault. With this in mind, know that Long Tom is not OP....



But Scouting is OP if you allow it to be.

Good luck and hope this helps you figure out how to counter that "OP" Long Tom.

[Chemie]

actually, PGI just created a mechanic where 12 mans will totally avoid planets that have been scout camped. Kind of pointless really. They made it so OP that they have said "at >90% intel, don't bother". Silly to discourage players from 12-man queue.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Chemie, on 20 April 2016 - 01:35 PM, said:

actually, PGI just created a mechanic where 12 mans will totally avoid planets that have been scout camped. Kind of pointless really. They made it so OP that they have said "at >90% intel, don't bother". Silly to discourage players from 12-man queue.

If the enemy has gotten it to 90% then its obviously time to stop attacking in the 12 man queue and focus more on the scouting queue. To win a battle you need 12 mans fighting and scouts constantly battling to keep the artillery out of enemy hands and possibly into yours.

[Afuldan McKronik]

This is incentive to break 1 12 man into 3 4 man groups and scout.

[FupDup]

This is a scale picture that somebody made to illustrate the current power of the Long Tom.



For reference, that little gray dot in the middle is a Dire Wolf assault mech.


Do you really think this picture is fine?

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

FupDup, on 20 April 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

This is a scale picture that somebody made to illustrate the current power of the Long Tom.



For reference, that little gray dot in the middle is a Dire Wolf assault mech.


Do you really think this picture is fine?

Yep.

But really I do, if a team gets their scouting over 90% it should really mean they should basically win the planet. Its like in some RTS games like Supreme Commander in which if you sit there and let an enemy turtle until he builds up some super artillery you deserve to lose because you had so much time to stop him. In this game's case even after a team gets scouting to 90% you can still send in scouts to bring it back down for a chance to not be tactically locked out of invasions by heavy artillery fire.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Ah, but the unholy trinity of overquirked BK, GHR, and TDR cant be used in scouting. Its not like the 55 tonner IS mechs arent powerful, its that the heavy pilots cant get used to not vaporizing clan ST in two alphas. /s

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Afuldan McKronik, on 20 April 2016 - 02:03 PM, said:

Ah, but the unholy trinity of overquirked BK, GHR, and TDR cant be used in scouting. Its not like the 55 tonner IS mechs arent powerful, its that the heavy pilots cant get used to not vaporizing clan ST in two alphas. /s

But the quad ASRM6 Griffin build still vaporizes clan ST in two alphas.

[DivBy0]

It make me sad...

[Bishop Steiner]

Scout Derek, on 20 April 2016 - 11:57 AM, said:

Skip to 2:09. Lol.


To be honest, if one allows them the Scouting, then it's your fault. With this in mind, know that Long Tom is not OP....



But Scouting is OP if you allow it to be.

Good luck and hope this helps you figure out how to counter that "OP" Long Tom.

so they mad because they huddle together like scared children and git rekt?

MOAR LONG TOMZ PLOX!!!!!!!

[Afuldan McKronik]

Dakota1000, on 20 April 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

But the quad ASRM6 Griffin build still vaporizes clan ST in two alphas.

Shh, the nerf cry hards will hear you.

[Hydrocarbon]

The problem isn't just one simple weapon. Sure, they should be scouting. However that argument was broken the moment compounded it with a tonnage/streak imbalance.

I was with 3 other top MS players (guys that each have 4k matches in CW) and it was a struggle to win the scout matches (both gather & defend). SCR's and Jenners boating streaks/srms/SPL, ecm Cheetahs/cute foxes, etc. IS practically must bring XL engines to stop a cheetah/jenner cap rush, but then it's like facing mallets with plate glass. There's also no respectable light ECM mech for IS.

Tonnage should be reduced to 50t or 35t IMO.

[Afuldan McKronik]

35 is reasonable. 50 lets IS field Crab, Cent, Hunchie against the Hunchie IIC at that weight max. And they arent exactly scouting meta, or even lore scouts.

[50 50]

Wasn't there also meant to be a marker on the mini map to show the area for the long tom?

It seems that it might be juuuuuust a tad too damaging.
From what I've seen in the vids and from the earlier preview, I thought there would be more 'effects' with the explosion..... or I that just because the graphic options have been turned down. (ie. I thought there might be the dust and debris laden shockwave.)

The current artillery has a radius effect.
The Airstrike is a vertical line from the mech.
I think it would be interesting to have the long tom act more as a prolonged horizontal bombardment wave.

[Afuldan McKronik]

With how powerful it is, it should have a mushroom cloud rise from it.

I honestly think it needs to be this powerful to dissuade a large unit *cough* from dropping multipule 12-man groups onto planets. Forces them to work in 4-man groups to support one 12-man group. Its breaking up large amounts of awesome pilots into smaller field sizes, forcing them to a new method of playing. Its easier to make a mistake and come back from itvwith 48v48 mechs on the field than it is 4v4 mechs.

[Scout Derek]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 April 2016 - 02:06 PM, said:

so they mad because they huddle together like scared children and git rekt?

MOAR LONG TOMZ PLOX!!!!!!!

Exacto.

Hydrocarbon, on 20 April 2016 - 02:10 PM, said:

The problem isn't just one simple weapon. Sure, they should be scouting. However that argument was broken the moment compounded it with a tonnage/streak imbalance.

I was with 3 other top MS players (guys that each have 4k matches in CW) and it was a struggle to win the scout matches (both gather & defend). SCR's and Jenners boating streaks/srms/SPL, ecm Cheetahs/cute foxes, etc. IS practically must bring XL engines to stop a cheetah/jenner cap rush, but then it's like facing mallets with plate glass. There's also no respectable light ECM mech for IS.

Tonnage should be reduced to 50t or 35t IMO.

I would say the tonnage balance would be good, but then the Substitue is the HBK IIC with jump jets. If you want the tonnage limit, I say it's a good idea that while everyone won't complain/agree on, they would be grateful for that.

Dakota1000, on 20 April 2016 - 01:55 PM, said:

Yep.

But really I do, if a team gets their scouting over 90% it should really mean they should basically win the planet. Its like in some RTS games like Supreme Commander in which if you sit there and let an enemy turtle until he builds up some super artillery you deserve to lose because you had so much time to stop him. In this game's case even after a team gets scouting to 90% you can still send in scouts to bring it back down for a chance to not be tactically locked out of invasions by heavy artillery fire.

exactly, if a side gets 90%+ scouting, then the other team shouldn't win, it's WAR. WAR I SAY. In war, the one with the most information wins, even with skills or firepower or coordination.

It's been proven in war, time and time again, in both B-tech and in our society. Would it makes sense for the better equipped to lose to the side that's better skilled? (Kind of controversial but this IS Long range warfare we're talking about).

Here's a dumbed down example, I don't know if this right or not but I'll try anyways:

Okay, since I won the scouting, Instead of bringing a LRM 20 vs a LRM 20, I get to bring an extra LRM 20-40.

so does it make sense that while the other has a LRM 20, but is skilled with it, can beat someone with LRM 60 in a straight up trading shots situation? No, it doesn't, LRM 60 would win. now apply this in artillery terms. (kind of hard to explain but I did the best I could).

[MischiefSC]

Dakota1000, on 20 April 2016 - 01:37 PM, said:

If the enemy has gotten it to 90% then its obviously time to stop attacking in the 12 man queue and focus more on the scouting queue. To win a battle you need 12 mans fighting and scouts constantly battling to keep the artillery out of enemy hands and possibly into yours.

Unless your faction has a bunch of bad pugs.

Or the other faction has skilled players in alts in the solo queue farming scrubs.

PGI has created an incredibly exploitable system.

So what we're saying though is the 4v4 queue can **** down the 12v12 queue and that's good for the population? That's like saying the side that happily ghost drops wins is good because they are more willing to do something unfun to win. So you get rewarded for being willing to not have fun in a game.

The end result is just less total players over time.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Don't bring a 200mm cannon to a 3000mm cannonfight?

[Scout Derek]

Afuldan McKronik, on 20 April 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

Don't bring a 200mm cannon to a 3000mm cannonfight?

Just like Laser boats aren't effective against covered LRM boats.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Yeah... If the laser boats can't see them, plus they get hit by narc... even group queue you hear the cries. Even with one lrm boat. Because everyone sees the narc symbol and panics. Got told to get good by someone because we happened to have a player with narc and a new player using lrms to get used to the game. Ignore the fact that we had 10 and a half DF mechs.