129 replies to this topic

[Karl Streiger]

well this discussion is old. But you have to keep in mind.
The very mission profile of 4vs4 scouting need two things speed and fire power.

Can IS Mediums beat the Crow - of course .... but can they run as fast when running is needed?

[DovisKhan]

Mcgral18, on 21 April 2016 - 01:48 AM, said:

No, the Oxide is far more powerful than the IIC, because it is much more durable, with moderately better sustainability.
The +16 to either leg being the big thing.

The BK gets impressive Structure quirks, which allow for a large XL, which means it is NOT slow. With isLPLs you don't need SRMs. They do longer range, and EXCEL at short range. They can LOLpha nearly as well as the WubShee.



Your lack of understanding is...well, not disturbing, but I feel the PUG LIFE exclamation is appropriate.

1) Your brawl inexperience is glaring, SRMs beat lasers every time, 17 CT structure is not that impressive

2) Oxide has 11 CT structure, while it has 50% less attack than the IIC, you strip that extra structure in the 1st hit

At 71 vs 61 structure lets compare


34 dmg, means 2 x alpha to drop IIC with 13% rockets missing

vs

48 dmg, means 2x alpha to drop with Oxide with 35% rockets missing


Oxide pilot must be literally more than twice more accurate to kill a IIC pilot, you can put your opinions here, but if you can't lay down the math to support it - your opinion isn't worth much

[Mcgral18]

DovisKhan, on 21 April 2016 - 02:03 AM, said:

1) Your brawl inexperience is glaring, SRMs beat lasers every time, 17 CT structure is not that impressive

2) Oxide has 11 CT structure, while it has 50% less attack than the IIC, you strip that extra structure in the 1st hit

At 71 vs 61 structure lets compare


34 dmg, means 2 x alpha to drop IIC with 13% rockets missing

vs

48 dmg, means 2x alpha to drop with Oxide with 35% rockets missing


Oxide pilot must be literally more than twice more accurate to kill a IIC pilot, you can put your opinions here, but if you can't lay down the math to support it - your opinion isn't worth much

Now look at MRCB: Which Light mechs are getting doubled?
Not the 2C, the Oxide

Reality is the best example (well, virtual reality...but you get the idea) Practical experience, of which robot is superior.


You also seem to be ignoring the BIG range differential...the BK can effectively hit you at 700-800M, while the SRMs do NOTHING past 300M.

3isLPLs are just as deadly as SRMs. It's 33 PINPOINT damage, while SRM24+A is a 5+M CoF of 48 damage (without any supplementary lasers)
It's also bonus structure to the STs, and Legs as well. With less heat, more range, occasionally less duration (not all, I don't believe)


You sound very inexperienced, or do not watch any competition matches...because the BK and Oxide are the higher picks (Heavy getting more variety...but always Oxides with some Cheetahs, Oxide taking priority in the majority of cases)

Edited by Mcgral18, 21 April 2016 - 02:09 AM.

[STEF_]

Karl Streiger, on 21 April 2016 - 02:02 AM, said:

well this discussion is old. But you have to keep in mind.
The very mission profile of 4vs4 scouting need two things speed and fire power.

Can IS Mediums beat the Crow - of course .... but can they run as fast when running is needed?

Enforcer can do 120 kph....

[Johnny Z]

DovisKhan, on 21 April 2016 - 01:32 AM, said:

Outperforms in what way exactly

Firestarter has 30% less speed, has 50% less range and 15% less damage, and since it has no structure quirks it's not more durable, it also has a slightly larger frame and heat efficiency is similar

This is correct. This has been going on since Clan tech was first added. Its was added extremely over powered and every dedicated Inner Sphere mech pilot quit almost. While these same players said "Its the pilot not the mech" 10,000 times on these forums.

Balance is a lot closer now than it was. An easy mode is not needed in an online game and the few problems that remain will in all likelihood be fixed in time. So players just have to put up with it for now. The guys making this game know all of this for sure so try and relax and ignore the trolls saying otherwise. The guys making this game do read the forums though so by all means be honest and try to communicate any problems.

Edited by Johnny Z, 21 April 2016 - 02:10 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Stefka Kerensky, on 21 April 2016 - 02:08 AM, said:

Enforcer can do 120 kph....

Really:
oh seriously affront for my Wang

Edited by Karl Streiger, 21 April 2016 - 02:11 AM.

[Johnny Z]

The main problem is how to have balance while still keeping the character of Clan tech and Inner Sphere tech.

Clans and Clan tech are an awesome addition to Battletech and MechWarrior but were somewhat ruined in table top because it isn't an online game to put it simply. This game is challenged with how to maintain character of both without completely ruining the game. Which is what an easy mode for either side would do. Which the players pushing for Clan easy mode know.

So if anyone has any ideas that would limit the Murder Crow without breaking it and everything else go right ahead and it may pick up traction and maybe be added to the game some day.

Edited by Johnny Z, 21 April 2016 - 02:17 AM.

[DovisKhan]

Mcgral18, on 21 April 2016 - 02:08 AM, said:

Now look at MRCB: Which Light mechs are getting doubled?
Not the 2C, the Oxide

Reality is the best example (well, virtual reality...but you get the idea) Practical experience, of which robot is superior.


You also seem to be ignoring the BIG range differential...the BK can effectively hit you at 700-800M, while the SRMs do NOTHING past 300M.

3isLPLs are just as deadly as SRMs. It's 33 PINPOINT damage, while SRM24+A is a 5+M CoF of 48 damage (without any supplementary lasers)
It's also bonus structure to the STs, and Legs as well. With less heat, more range, occasionally less duration (not all, I don't believe)


You sound very inexperienced, or do not watch any competition matches...because the BK and Oxide are the higher picks (Heavy getting more variety...but always Oxides with some Cheetahs, Oxide taking priority in the majority of cases)

They drop double oxides because it's an older mech that they have and are used to, there is no other justification, because it's simply inferior number wise



Quad SRM timber will still be packing clan medium lasers, 5 of them, at 35 damage > 33 from lpls, with the same range, 438 for maxed lpl range vs 440 cml, is mls won't reach


That means if BK is packing pulse lasers - he's not packin any higher ranged lasers and that means he just matches the SRM timber in medium range while is severely outgunned once srms come into play


As for copying and blindly following pro meta, I'm always tier 1, rank 1 or whatever 1 in any game I play because I first crunch the numbers and the rest follow naturally, since I always have the edge build wise

Edited by DovisKhan, 21 April 2016 - 02:24 AM.

[TyphonCh]

Reading this topic makes me lol.

To think they're hosting a tournament with this kind of imbalance blatantly present.
Same chassis. Same copy paste load outs. It's going to be boring to watch.

[Mcgral18]

DovisKhan, on 21 April 2016 - 02:17 AM, said:

They drop double oxides because it's an older mech that they have and are used to, there is no other justification, because it's simply inferior number wise



Quad SRM timber will still be packing clan medium lasers, 5 of them, at 35 damage > 33 from lpls, with the same range, 438 for maxed lpl range vs 440 cml, is mls won't reach


That means if BK is packing pulse lasers - he's not packin any higher ranged lasers and that means he just matches the SRM timber in medium range while is severely outgunned once srms come into play

I can't take this seriously anymore...


You are trolling, right?

More people readily have a HERO MECH available than a Cbill mech?

The 6 heat ERMLs are more effective than the 7 heat LPLs (at twice the damage and equal-greater range)?


Cheetah's aren't bad, but the Oxide is better in the majority of scenarios. One clear advantage: JJs. One of the few.


And B, a Timby is not packing both SRMs and ERMLs. That's goddamn TERRIBLE build.
SPLs, bro, SPLs. You want SYNERGY, SRMs+SPLs, and terrible range. That's the sacrifice for an effective robot, something you obviously know nothing about.

Edited by Mcgral18, 21 April 2016 - 11:39 AM.

[JC Daxion]

the SRM stormcrow spreads missiles a lot more, so you are able to soak more damage..

Your object is to try to take off its left arm, and hopefully can chew down it's armor on the left torso.

When he fires, you twist, to soak the damage with both your arms, if done right you can loose 72 points of armor, and still have all your weapons..


On the flip side, as you have done 70 points of armor, if timed right, you should have taken out his left arm, and most of his left torso.. another volley, In a perfect work you can have knocked out 3 oh his launchers, Now it is 4 SRM's to his 2.. and most likely a beat up CT as well.

again, this is all about piloting, to make the IS mech play better and it should.. That is not to say a good Stormcrow pilot can't win, but the IS guy should have the advantage in theory.

hope that helps

[Johnny Z]

Team Chevy86, on 21 April 2016 - 02:21 AM, said:

Reading this topic makes me lol.

To think they're hosting a tournament with this kind of imbalance blatantly present.
Same chassis. Same copy paste load outs. It's going to be boring to watch.

There are lots of usable chassis and variants. Many. That's what this balancing is all about is avoiding one mech being the best and wasting all the content of the other mechs they made in the game. One mech being the best isn't good for anyone. The Streak Crow is OVERPOWERED against Inner Sphere lights. Everyone knows that. Its just a problem to be looked at is all.

There are a few balance problems in this game.

Claims the oxide is OP are almost completely false and straight out lies. I fight them all the time in various mechs with no problem. Murder Crow and a few other problems are a complete mess still.

Minor balance problems don't bother me so maybe half of these complaints about the oxide or what ever other mech are half true. I don't know. Its things like a Streak Crow running up at 110 kph and one shotting light mechs with no chance to miss without even aiming that bother me.

Edited by Johnny Z, 21 April 2016 - 02:30 AM.

[DovisKhan]

Mcgral18, on 21 April 2016 - 02:25 AM, said:

I can't take this seriously anymore...


You are trolling, right?

More people readily have a HERO MECH available than a Cbill mech?

The 6 heat ERMLs are more effective than the 7 heat LPLs (for twice the damage and equal-greater range)


Cheetah's aren't bad, but the Oxide is better in the majority of scenarios. One clear advantage: JJs. One of the few.


And B, a Timby is not packing both SRMs and ERMLs. That's goddamn TERRIBLE build.
SPLs, bro, SPLs. You want SYNERGY, SRMs+SPLs, and terrible range. That's the sacrifice for an effective robot, something you obviously know nothing about.

Lol wut?

1) You are not aware that Cheetah has JJ and Oxide doesn't? Are you trolling or are you one of them perma noobs that can stay in a game for years and still not know anything about it


2) CERMEDs not CERLL or CSPL, learn to read before you argue dude

5 CERMED at 440 optimal range match 3 LPL at 438 optimal range and are complimented by quad srm6 with artemis for close range dominance

3) If you're playing at pro level - yes you have a hero mech



Seriously, some of you people are hilarious, you intentionally do a crappy build like srms and spls and then whine you can't go against someone with IS lpls... Well DUH if you intentionally gimp yourself like that of course you will fail, that's why you pack cermeds not spls

Edited by DovisKhan, 21 April 2016 - 02:38 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Well - while the ENF-4P with AC20 and 4 Medium laser should be indeed enough to make short process with a streak crow..... things will be more interesting with this:
SCR-PRIME

2 x 36dmg Alpha Strikes ~0.75sec burn duration..... enough to burn a hole into a ENF side torso - and the Stormcrow has enough heatsinks for a third even a fourth salvo in ~4sec

....4x36dmg even with some spread will kill the ENF-4P for sure. Even when not.... its tiny 2x20pp and 2x20 0.9sec burn damage are not enough to compete

Edited by Karl Streiger, 21 April 2016 - 02:40 AM.

[Mcgral18]

DovisKhan, on 21 April 2016 - 02:32 AM, said:

Lol wut?

1) You are not aware that Cheetah has JJ and Oxide doesn't? Are you trolling or are you one of them perma noobs that can stay in a game for years and still not know anything about it


2) CERMEDs not CERLL or CSPL, learn to read before you argue dude

5 CERMED at 440 optimal range match 3 LPL at 438 optimal range and are complimented by quad srm6 with artemis for close range dominance

3) If you're playing at pro level - yes you have a hero mech



Seriously, some of you people are hilarious, you intentionally do a crappy build like srms and spls and then whine you can't go against someone with IS lpls... Well DUH if you intentionally gimp yourself like that of course you will fail, that's why you pack cermeds not spls

Work on that literacy Bro

If you're on the Pro level, you have EVERY mech you need. Cheetah AND Oxide
The one that's taken more often isn't because it's more convenient, but because it's superior in that role (killing things)

[Johnny Z]

Mcgral18, on 21 April 2016 - 02:40 AM, said:

Work on that literacy Bro

If you're on the Pro level, you have EVERY mech you need. Cheetah AND Oxide
The one that's taken more often isn't because it's more convenient, but because it's superior in that role (killing things)

Well the Arctic Cheetah is still easily the best light mech in the game.

Again the people making this game know that. They also know that Clan players are such man babies they will quit if Clan easy mode isn't maintained at least to some degree. Straight up.

(I don't know anyone making this game even a little bit, but I pay attention to how things are and this is obvious stuff)

Edited by Johnny Z, 21 April 2016 - 02:43 AM.

[STEF_]

DovisKhan, on 21 April 2016 - 02:17 AM, said:

As for copying and blindly following pro meta, I'm always tier 1, rank 1 or whatever 1 in any game I play because I first crunch the numbers and the rest follow naturally, since I always have the edge build wise

Thanks to give your highly valuable advices for free!

btw.... being so op..... I cannot find your name in any of previous ladders.....
From 07 january 2016 untill now, I mean....

[Johnny Z]

This should be well known about MechWarrior Online by now. The good pilots play Inner Sphere, the crutch seekers play Clan.

Ride that crutch for all it worth Clanners.

Edited by Johnny Z, 21 April 2016 - 02:46 AM.

[Random Carnage]

Some people take themselves seriously huh?

[INKBALL]

Are you simply ignoring the armor quirk there ? +10% CD on missile also ?

Additional Structure Center Torso+18
Additional Structure L/R Arm+12
Additional Structure L/R Torso+13
Additional Structure L/R Leg+13
Missile Weapon Cooldown10%
Missile Weapon Velocity10%


Basicly, 10%CD is a 10% extra dps on a short burst (before heat is taken in consideration). 100+ HP on a 370(armor)+185structure= 15-20% extra health...

Edited by INKBALL, 21 April 2016 - 02:55 AM.