88 replies to this topic

[Mister Blastman]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 21 April 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:

Except the game's initial builds, and even subsequent patches, while they would address major glairing issues like MW3's build rules and all... were just not primarily focused on the multiplayer portion of the game.

As was said, until MWLL/MWO, Mechwarrior Multiplayer was a secondary thought [excluding the Multiplayer battletech games on Kesami]

MWO is the only main line Mechwarrior game where Multiplayer is the focus.

Sure, whatever, think what you want. I was there and extremely active in the communities. Multiplayer was absolutely not a second thought. Anyways, I have no more time for this nonsense. Be convinced of what you will. I was there. I know the truth.

[Scout Derek]

Mister Blastman, on 21 April 2016 - 03:10 PM, said:

Sure, whatever, think what you want. I was there and extremely active in the communities. Multiplayer was absolutely not a second thought. Anyways, I have no more time for this nonsense. Be convinced of what you will. I was there. I know the truth.

Okay, that's perfectly fine. I wasn't there to witness it or receive online patches. I played vanilla MW alone like a noob

that is until late MW4, around 2006-09', when all the tourney and others were toning down because of LL and MWO coming.

[jaxjace]

Balance in MWO is atrocious. Lasers are STILL KING, after 2 years, its rather pathetic, especially since their latest "buff" to PPCs, still not worth using a **** weapon when you can use a LPL thats better in almost every possible way.

Balance in MW4 was bad, but workable. dozens and dozens of mechs that arent in this game, PROPER LASER DAMAGE AND DURATION AND HEAT. it also had everything CW had and MORE on release.

[FupDup]

jaxjace, on 21 April 2016 - 03:45 PM, said:

Balance in MW4 was bad, but workable. dozens and dozens of mechs that arent in this game, PROPER LASER DAMAGE AND DURATION AND HEAT. it also had everything CW had and MORE on release.

MW4 lasers don't have durations. They are completely PPFLD while still being hitscan.

The "proper damage" is pretty debatable, because of things like a Large Laser doing several times more damage than a Medium Laser...

Also, MW4 doesn't officially have CW, it just had player-run leagues. Every aspect of CW was tracked by the players using 3rd-party methods, rather than the game itself.

[Karamarka]

mw4 had awesome coop and levels. The maps were god damn huge and awesome.

They actually had a desert map.

Destructible buildings too.

[cazidin]

FupDup, on 21 April 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

MW4 lasers don't have durations. They are completely PPFLD while still being hitscan.

The "proper damage" is pretty debatable, because of things like a Large Laser doing several times more damage than a Medium Laser...

Also, MW4 doesn't officially have CW, it just had player-run leagues. Every aspect of CW was tracked by the players using 3rd-party methods, rather than the game itself.

Hmm... what if we imported MW:O stats to MW:4 such as laser duration and velocity? The latter is an internal attribute not displayed, to my knowledge. Or things like Endo Steel and Xl engines.

[Maaxxx]

I really like the Hardpoint system of MW4

[Narcissistic Martyr]

GreyNovember, on 21 April 2016 - 11:10 AM, said:

There has never really been a game where lights are effective before MWO.

I mean, sure, 2 ERPPC Adder back then. But that was probably it.

Cougar could ERLL the AI from afar.

Notice how it's always a tonnage creep?

Firemoth D was effective in MW2 multiplayer

[jaxjace]

FupDup, on 21 April 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

MW4 lasers don't have durations. They are completely PPFLD while still being hitscan.

The "proper damage" is pretty debatable, because of things like a Large Laser doing several times more damage than a Medium Laser...

Also, MW4 doesn't officially have CW, it just had player-run leagues. Every aspect of CW was tracked by the players using 3rd-party methods, rather than the game itself.

Exactly thats how lasers should work in MWO as well, if you miss you miss, thats one of the reasons lasers are better than all other weapons in MWO, you can always get at least SOME damage even if you miss. The damage of lasers in MW4 was appropriate, lasers in MWO do far more than they should.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

jaxjace, on 25 April 2016 - 06:24 PM, said:

Exactly thats how lasers should work in MWO as well, if you miss you miss, thats one of the reasons lasers are better than all other weapons in MWO

You realize large lasers were one of THE strongest weapons in that game in a similar environment (FFP/LH/LA) right?

I still remember all the stories of the catnapping days and the 6-gun Timmy.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 26 April 2016 - 06:43 AM.

[FupDup]

jaxjace, on 25 April 2016 - 06:24 PM, said:

Exactly thats how lasers should work in MWO as well, if you miss you miss, thats one of the reasons lasers are better than all other weapons in MWO, you can always get at least SOME damage even if you miss. The damage of lasers in MW4 was appropriate, lasers in MWO do far more than they should.

If all MWO lasers had 0.0 second duration, they would be massively more powerful than they are now. Beam duration is the key reason that MWO pulse lasers are so good...now imagine every laser being even more pinpoint than pulses are now.

[jaxjace]

FupDup, on 25 April 2016 - 07:32 PM, said:

If all MWO lasers had 0.0 second duration, they would be massively more powerful than they are now. Beam duration is the key reason that MWO pulse lasers are so good...now imagine every laser being even more pinpoint than pulses are now.

only more powerful if you actually hit it, obviously decrease its damage back down to tt values to compensate,

personally i think if you want to keep lasers how they are now they need to have longer duration across the board and do less damage. Make IS beam what clan is now and make clan even longer, adjust as needed. Biggest offender of all is the large pulse laser, also known as the I win laser.

Something needs to be done to finally ******* end the laser meta, its been too long.

[Karl Streiger]

FupDup, on 21 April 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

MW4 lasers don't have durations. They are completely PPFLD while still being hitscan.

The "proper damage" is pretty debatable, because of things like a Large Laser doing several times more damage than a Medium Laser...

Also, MW4 doesn't officially have CW, it just had player-run leagues. Every aspect of CW was tracked by the players using 3rd-party methods, rather than the game itself.

Reading that the Large Laser had many times more damage
well don't want to blow your arguments but this is much better balanced than Mwo Laser - reason it mirrors the range brackets and the spread damage of smaller weapons over bigger guns.

you know the issue we should start to call "massed convergence" or why a single large laser in TT may kill a commando but hardly damage one in MWO - while 6 Medium Laser in TT may only scratch the Commando but kill it in MWO.
and another thing -range brackets:

Spoiler

You should see that the MWO Weapons are just numbers without meaning

In most terms MW4 weapon stats were great. Of course they still had the issue of convergence but they were able to balance Clan vs IS weapons very well.
Look at the IS PPC (no ER PPC - no minimum range vs C-ERPPC) thats a very very good design.
The other good part is the ammunition handling - would be great when ammo could not be moved in MWO. (Oh yes the LT of the Hunchback - is the ammunition bin - always)

Edited by Karl Streiger, 25 April 2016 - 11:34 PM.

[Widowmaker1981]

jaxjace, on 25 April 2016 - 06:24 PM, said:

Exactly thats how lasers should work in MWO as well, if you miss you miss, thats one of the reasons lasers are better than all other weapons in MWO, you can always get at least SOME damage even if you miss. The damage of lasers in MW4 was appropriate, lasers in MWO do far more than they should.

Did you actually just say that you think the beam duration on MWO lasers makes them BETTER than if they were front loaded hitscan like in previous titles?

Are you high? How does a T1 player have such a non existent understanding of the game mechanics?

Hint: Longer duration is bad. The reason our lasers have more damage than previous ones is the fact that they are nerfed by having a duration (increases face time, spreads damage)

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 26 April 2016 - 01:56 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

MWO is better than MW4.

Heck, MW3 was better than MW4. MW4 was probably the worst entry in the franchise. The only thing it did better than it's predecessors was how it handed loadout. Other than that, it was a poor story, crap FMVs, poor presentation, and just plain...ugly.

If MW3 had a loadout system similar to MW4 or MWO, it would have been perfect IMO.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 25 April 2016 - 07:16 PM, said:

You realize large lasers were one of THE strongest weapons in that game right in a similar environment (FFP/LH/LA)?

I still remember all the stories of the catnapping days and the 6-gun Timmy.

Childs play, 3 gun scat, and ninja Ryo anyday.

[Red Shrike]

As for weapon balance in MW4:Mercs PvP, I can't say much. The PvP scene in MekTek was already a ghost town by the time I arrived. (Played the MW4:Mercs campaign so many times over the years though. Spectre, Castle and Duncan Fisher are in my top 10 of favorite videogame characters, hence the layout of my sig)

But what I can tell you is that the (sized) hardpoint system is a lot better than what we have now in MWO. While QP is probably fine having maps like it does now, being corridor heavy like in World of Tanks, I feel MW4:Mercs maps would be a lot better suited for CW/FW than the current chokepoint invasion maps we have now.

Spoiler

MeiSooHaityu, on 26 April 2016 - 02:00 AM, said:

MW4 was probably the worst entry in the franchise. The only thing it did better than it's predecessors was how it handed loadout. Other than that, it was a poor story, crap FMVs, poor presentation, and just plain...ugly.

Hell no. MW4:Mercs has an awesome story and awesome voice actors.

Roshak: "This is Star Captain Jeffer Roshak of the Jade Falcon Clan. I will crush your worthless forces beneath my talons, and make you all my bondsmen."
Spectre: "Neg, you'll be eating dirt in about 2 minutes, Herr Roshak."

Edited by Red Shrike, 26 April 2016 - 03:35 AM.

[Jun Watarase]

MW4 had terrible maps. Most of the maps featured these HUGE open spaces....so anyone who didnt boat long ranged weapons were screwed. Most of the weapons were pinpoint FLD and it was far easier to achieve ridiculous alpha strike figures. There was no incentive whatsoever to bring a lighter mech, and most servers made no attempt to restrict tonnage by team. Literally the only people who brought light mechs were newbies who didnt know better, or people who maxed out the engine with minimal weapons for trolling.

Most of the servers insisted on running map cycles comprised of at least 90% open maps where everyone just camped right outside their starting location and sniped at 1000 meters. The last time I played (which was when the MWO closed beta was starting), every single time I tried to get my team to move out of the starting location failed. They were all in assaults with jump jets and just poptarted for the entire match, never moving from their spot. The remaining maps were urban maps where everyone just boated as many LBX-20s as they could.

Nobody used JJs as they were intended, they were only used to poptart and deliver massive alphas.

Some weapons simply did not work...weapons like SRMs and Ultra ACs had great damage on paper, but even on slow assaults, they routinely failed to do any decent damage. I tried taking a longbow with as many clan streak SRMs as I could fit on it in the single player campaign, and heavies were just withstanding multiple alphas with no issues, even though on paper I was doing hundreds of damage points.

Edited by Jun Watarase, 26 April 2016 - 03:45 AM.

[Mechteric]

The correct answer is Mechwarrior Living Legends



Because both MW4 and MWO have stupid floaty jump jets, whereas MWLL had rocket boosted awesome as hell jump jets!

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Karl Streiger, on 25 April 2016 - 08:54 PM, said:

Reading that the Large Laser had many times more damage
well don't want to blow your arguments but this is much better balanced than Mwo Laser - reason it mirrors the range brackets and the spread damage of smaller weapons over bigger guns.

you know the issue we should start to call "massed convergence" or why a single large laser in TT may kill a commando but hardly damage one in MWO - while 6 Medium Laser in TT may only scratch the Commando but kill it in MWO.
and another thing -range brackets:

Spoiler

You should see that the MWO Weapons are just numbers without meaning

In most terms MW4 weapon stats were great. Of course they still had the issue of convergence but they were able to balance Clan vs IS weapons very well.
Look at the IS PPC (no ER PPC - no minimum range vs C-ERPPC) thats a very very good design.
The other good part is the ammunition handling - would be great when ammo could not be moved in MWO. (Oh yes the LT of the Hunchback - is the ammunition bin - always)

Clan vs IS weapon balance was good? There were exactly four good IS guns: LXPL, HGauss, LtGauss, and PPC (and that only because of how hot CERPPC ran). The LL and LPL were mediocre at their very best (though still miles beyond any of the MLs or SLs)- they weighed slightly more and did slightly less damage than their Clan equivalents for a bit less heat and much less range; the only reason you'd ever take them was if you really needed lasers on a hot map. All other IS weapons were outright inferior because they either had exactly the same mechanics for more mass (all ACs, LRMs, flamer, and standard Gauss), or had straight-up weaker stats or mechanics for the same mass (SRMs, MRMs, MG array, all MLs and SLs). The weapons which had no Clan equivalent, like TBolt and Long Tom, were too gimmicky to deliver consistent performance. Clan weapons absolutely dominated.