133 replies to this topic

[Afuldan McKronik]

All I want to know why the Blackjack is so small with those gun barrels it calls for arms. Or is it going to be brought up in size so it isnt the height of a light?

Edit: dur words matter.

Edited by Afuldan McKronik, 22 April 2016 - 04:57 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

Afuldan McKronik, on 22 April 2016 - 04:56 PM, said:

All I want to know why the Blackjack is so small with those gun barrels it calls for arms. Or is it going to be brought up in size so it isnt the height of a light?

Edit: dur words matter.

We don't know exactly how big any mech is going to be when the rescale is complete - short of a few that PGI called out as being fairly close to their correct tonnage. The ShadowHawk and Centurion are less than 2% off from their real tonnage, if I remember correctly, so don't expect them to change much. The Nova though? The model that's in the game right now is actually at about 62 tons. It's the largest discrepancy between actual and represented tonnage of any chassis.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

Revis Volek, on 22 April 2016 - 01:13 PM, said:

oh yea!

WTF no gun hand?!?!



RIOT IN THE STREETS MECH BROS!

Then they shouldn't show pics of a product they haven't finished or if it doesn't match art work dramatically.

MauttyKoray, on 22 April 2016 - 02:46 PM, said:

Things about volume:

1. It is the entire mass to weight ratio.

2. Humanoids will almost always stand taller than non-humanoids.

3. Heavier doesn't mean taller. (There are 50-100 ton vehicles smaller than mechs.)

4. 100 tons isn't actually that big, an African elephant can weight between 2.5 an 7 TONS! Thinks of 20 elephants stacked in a 4x5 pattern, that's not very big at all. 50 tons? 10 Elephants... Yeah...

Volume is tricky, and this from what I've read of the books, actually falls in line with how mechs were. Just because its a 'light' doesn't mean its gonna be tiny, it means it weighs less. Less protection, probably a a bit smaller, faster, more agile, etc.

The point to lighter mechs is MANUEVERABILITY and SPEED. Which is why MWO pisses me off sometimes because all our mechs are so friggin agile that it makes no difference.

They have advanced metal work. It was what enabled them to make the Mackie. Because it is similar tonnage to conventional arms and equipment, doesn't mean it lacks more material needed to make the machine.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Revis Volek, on 22 April 2016 - 01:13 PM, said:

oh yea!

WTF no gun hand?!?!



RIOT IN THE STREETS MECH BROS!

It'd be too close to the macross original probably and invite a lawsuit.

[avenger cannon]

By the way, in the video the mech IS holding the weapons like double barrel shotguns with pistol grips, you can't see at this angle.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I was hoping it would be a bit smaller, but it is a fairly wiry and lanky mech. Hopefully that will help a lot.

I'm actually more curious how those "towers" that are side torsos might be an issue to XL builds (which let's face it, it is what you are going to run in a 45 ton mech).

At least I still think it looks cool.

[xeromynd]

So yes, they showed the size comparison on stream. But let's not forget that the week before the PHX is released, literally every mech will be changing in some way, big or small.

I understand it IS possible to judge mech viability before it's released, there are some people who are very good at this. Happy to judge it on hardpoints, engine caps, tonnage, and ruminate about the mech's hitboxes. But I don't think size is something we can judge it on just yet. They could rescale it with everything else. In fact, why SHOULD they scale it at the moment? Why should they put the time into scaling it in comparison to other mechs, when those other mechs will be changing as well.

My best guess is they'll do a last minute scale adjustment after the rescale is done. And that's crossing my fingers.
Also, right up there with mech size is quirks, which we also know nothing about yet.

[ScarecrowES]

xeromynd, on 24 April 2016 - 07:41 PM, said:

So yes, they showed the size comparison on stream. But let's not forget that the week before the PHX is released, literally every mech will be changing in some way, big or small.

I understand it IS possible to judge mech viability before it's released, there are some people who are very good at this. Happy to judge it on hardpoints, engine caps, tonnage, and ruminate about the mech's hitboxes. But I don't think size is something we can judge it on just yet. They could rescale it with everything else. In fact, why SHOULD they scale it at the moment? Why should they put the time into scaling it in comparison to other mechs, when those other mechs will be changing as well.

My best guess is they'll do a last minute scale adjustment after the rescale is done. And that's crossing my fingers.
Also, right up there with mech size is quirks, which we also know nothing about yet.

Well, because texturing, hardpoint locations, animation rigging, etc, depend on the model being finalized, chances are near 100% that the model has already been sized to the final dimensions it will be when it is released.

However, chances are near 0% that the mechs shown on either side of that PHX in the preview pics are from a game build where rescaling has been completed - given that these are artist assets, not in-game assets, and that rescale for most models hasn't been completed yet.

So while it's safe to say that Phoenix Hawk isn't going to change in size from that pic to release, you absolutely cannot judge its size compared to the other models, as those do not likely reflect the rescaled versions of those mechs.

[xeromynd]

ScarecrowES, on 24 April 2016 - 07:59 PM, said:

Well, because texturing, hardpoint locations, animation rigging, etc, depend on the model being finalized, chances are near 100% that the model has already been sized to the final dimensions it will be when it is released.

However, chances are near 0% that the mechs shown on either side of that PHX in the preview pics are from a game build where rescaling has been completed - given that these are artist assets, not in-game assets, and that rescale for most models hasn't been completed yet.

So while it's safe to say that Phoenix Hawk isn't going to change in size from that pic to release, you absolutely cannot judge its size compared to the other models, as those do not likely reflect the rescaled versions of those mechs.

You're probably right. We're basically saying the same thing though. I guess I should've clarified that I didn't mean 'size', I meant 'scale.' That 'size' of that PHX model is probably set in stone, yes. BUT its scale in relation to the GRF and MAD (whosn there), is something I don't think we can judge yet, because I'd certainly think both of those are up for rescale.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Metus regem, on 21 April 2016 - 05:56 PM, said:

Looking at the first picture, I can't help but think the Marauder is too small... There is a bulk difference between the Phoenix Hawk (45t) and the Gryphon (55t), about as much as I'd expect. Either way I'm keeping my Phoenix Hawks.

The Marauder is Loooong. How many Phoenix Hawks (chest to back) would it take to equal the length of a Marauder? Three...maybe even four?

Height does not solely determine the size of a weight class, and that goes double for comparing a humanoid design to an aircraft torso design. Humanoids are tall and skinny, aircraft are short and long. What ever benefit that gives them from a height/head on profile is negated by the tremendous length from the side.

That is just part of the pros/cons of each torso type.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 25 April 2016 - 02:17 AM.

[LT. HARDCASE]

ScarecrowES, on 24 April 2016 - 07:59 PM, said:

However, chances are near 0% that the mechs shown on either side of that PHX in the preview pics are from a game build where rescaling has been completed - given that these are artist assets, not in-game assets, and that rescale for most models hasn't been completed yet.

So while it's safe to say that Phoenix Hawk isn't going to change in size from that pic to release, you absolutely cannot judge its size compared to the other models, as those do not likely reflect the rescaled versions of those mechs.

That just means that if the Griffin is scaled any smaller, it makes the size of the Phawk even more out of whack.

[Moldur]

Why are you showing us a picture of the Black knight?


...What?
....What are you saying?
...Surely not.
...Really?

[TexAce]

Alistair Winter, on 22 April 2016 - 09:22 AM, said:

Every time PGI releases images like this, people immediately identify problems with the design, and apologists rush to the scene to say it's all a matter of perspective. "Oh, I'm sure the Enforcer's head will look smaller from a different angle." "Oh, you can't tell how long the Shadow Cat cockpit is from that angle, bro." "Oh, the mech will be much smaller in-game. It just looks big because we're seeing it from underneath."

But humans aren't really that terrible at understanding proportions from different angles. The head is big, the hips are wide. From these angles, from all angles.

absolutely not true. The arms have two weapons next to each other horizontally, which doubles the width of thw forarms. The blueprint doesnt. You're eyes are fooling you. Its exactly as in the blueprint.

Especially, since those blueprints are there so the 3D artist has a plan how to model it. Its practically made for them to use it.

[Konrad]

lol called it.

[Jikil]

So would people rather have a smaller mech or blackknight/oxide tier quirks?

I think larger mechs look better and super tiny mechs like the crab and mist lynx are in the wrong game. Actually I think the mist lynx should be considered power armor seeing how small it is.

[DerMaulwurf]

Jikil, on 25 April 2016 - 07:46 AM, said:

So would people rather have a smaller mech or blackknight/oxide tier quirks?

I think larger mechs look better and super tiny mechs like the crab and mist lynx are in the wrong game. Actually I think the mist lynx should be considered power armor seeing how small it is.

There is the third option of having a large mech with Vindicator tier quirks.

Edited by DerMaulwurf, 25 April 2016 - 08:23 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

That big head and those ears!

[Podex]

Does anyone know how well this twists compared to the Griffin?

[Moomtazz]

What strikes me is how short the upper arms are on the Marauder and Phoenix Hawk compared to the Griffin. I wish they would shorten the upper arms of all the older mechs.

LT. HARDCASE, on 21 April 2016 - 05:32 PM, said:

[Cy Mitchell]

Konrad, on 25 April 2016 - 07:40 AM, said:

lol called it.

LOL, called what? That someone would make a post calling the Mech DOA before it has even been released? That is a given.