197 replies to this topic

[2fast2stompy]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 23 April 2016 - 10:49 PM, said:

Folks, this isn't rocket science.

The reason that peek-a-boo alpha strike style fighting is the preferred way to play is it is by far the most effective way to play.

Why is it effective? Because terrain can absorb damage with no penalty.

Why can the terrain features do that? Because they're 1) mostly INDESTRUCTIBLE, 2) simply GIGANTIC and 3) found EVERYWHERE. .

This is a really good point.
If the environment was destructible at least to some degree, it might actually solve the majority of the problems with the core game.

Let's take Grim Plexus as example. Instead of taking cover behind the structures and rocks at the center location and continuously peeking and alpha-striking, you'd want to get in there, pop a couple of shots, and close to brawl range, since staying for too long means you're in the open without cover (since it's been destroyed).

On Canyon, you push a couple of guys behind the rocks to provide cover while the rest of team maneuvers into a good position before the cover gets blown off so they can push.

Theta on mining becomes a death trap if the whole team just stands there.

That ******* arch on forest colony isn't the only part of the map anymore.

LRM20s become much more useful, since you can deny cover literally, at a great range.

[SplashDown]

For starters let me say that imo this game will always have a hard time keeping players here becuz of the grind for new players.
Im reffering to the mastery system..players should be able to master a single variant of a mech this allows them to use credits earned to max out that mech.rather than spending hard earned credits to have to master variants of mechs they prolly never wanted to spend money on in the 1st place...that can be a major downer...it was for me when i started.I truely think that by changing this it would peek the attention of new players..instead of current system which promotes bordum and players simply seek entertainment elsewhere for something with a faster pace.
Another thing that would promote more players hanging around is allowing players that have been killed in a match to leave that match to play in another mech and still recieve full rewards for the battle they left..no-1 really wants to be forced to sit n watch some-1 else have fun after theyve died.

Edited by SplashDown, 24 April 2016 - 03:21 PM.

[Lances107]

I have done a ton of quick plays and soon I hope to do a ton of faction warfare. I am also new to MWO but I have seen my fair share. Here is the truth its not the developers, its not the maps, its not the weapons, it is the player base. Too many kids will not risk thier hides in a push, they prefer to snipe get kills in, and take nearly zero damage. Now against a good team that understands mobility this does not happen. This does not happen because that team will encircle the team standing still get in close and shred them left to right. If you want someone to blame because the matchs have become more sniper like and less battlemech like well blame the player base. I lost count on how many matchs a team I am with lost because only a quarter of us pushed and took advantage of a situation well lights and others were trying to play sniper.

Now lets say they do what you suggest cut the damage down and make mechs more damage resistant, then players will just stand still in the open and keep shooting. I think your giving players too much credit in the area of brains. Not to say I am perfect, ive screwed up several times, but Ive also done well during matches.

As far as that trailer yea some of that was over done compared to actual game play.

Me alone I enjoy playing this game and here is why. No other game would have developers that have balls and spine enough to put together a huge faction warfare map/system/ multiple factions like they have done here. What they have done here is staggering. I dont doubt their will be generic repeats when I get heavy into faction play, but the sheer scope is amazing. The mind is required to play this game, another reason why I enjoy this game. This is no dumbed down game where one weapon does it all. Even a mech running multiple gausses, in the right hands, would be hard pressed to win if a brawler came along who had skill. Each weapon set up gives you advantages and disadvantages. I have yet to see a weapon that out does everything. You have to think and you have to be willing to ask questions to get good at this game.

Now all that being said the biggest issue with this game is the huge cost of everything for new players. You think its a fluke that most players sport heavy mechs. A heavy clan mech costs 14 million cbills on average, and a assault clan mech costs 17 to 18 million cbills for a good one The heavy class is right smack dab in the middle between excessive cost for a assault mech and light cost for a light/medium mech. Also another downside the fact that clan mechs are not being made true to the universe. Allot of players started out on mechwarrior 2, which means they will prefer clans over IS.

Last but not least this comes down to the player this game is player vrs player, which requires team work. Too many kids have grown up believing in this hero crap and I can solo everything. This inclines them not to work with the team. AKA as alpha lances not during their job during certain matchs. You can not blame the devs for everything, your gripes in the match, is all the player base.

[Omaha]

I dunno, I only "really" read the thread title. But mostly I feel discouraged with the clunkyness of combat itself. The jumpiness of collisions, and the way hit detection works it feel very unresponsive. The UI, the high demands of the game engine itself. Combine that with all the variables of complexity of mechs, cordination, and everything else. People simply do not bother, or either do not have the proper equipment to properly (myself included) run the game as seen in the trailer. (Some of which looks like it was in fast forward.) And leads to only the hard core mechwarrior/battletech fans staying around.

There is also this minor detail, dunno if it caught anyone else, but it did me. The "Title" Mechwarrior (ONLINE) makes one think of a persistent world where your running around piloting mechs in a world, that isn't based on match play styles. But that's just a stereotype of title naming, in other game. But it does feel like a very repetitive game. Constantly loading into.. and waiting for matches. If there isnt an event happening. I can't take much of it in long durations.

Edited by Omaha, 24 April 2016 - 04:00 PM.

[Livewyr]

Well, the gameplay is kind of garbage.

It's caught between CoD and a Sim.

Instant pin-perfect weapons at all times
high rates of fire for the amount of damage
slow moving mechs

So you get campy pokey bots, instead of mechwarrior.
Light mechs get a bit more exciting, but then- that's just a war of the small pulse boat vs streak mechs.
(Because multi-ton feet slaming against the ground underneath your giant vibrating fusion engine is actually rather like taxiing down a runway in jet...apparently.)

It's just... bad.
(And no, I'm not a noob, I'm just tired of the stale gameplay of the only considerations being presenting as little mech as possible, torso twisting, and being just a bit more accurate with my mouse than the other guys.)

[Novakaine]

If my 56th year of life I've seen games progress from my first - Avalon Hill Squad Leader board game.
That's with real cardboard and paper to computer games such as this one.
And I can unashamedly despite some of the many flaws.
This in the top three games I have ever played.
Nuff said.

[Omaha]

The trailer does show exciting combat, but the trailer does not show.




It should say take control of the galaxy, 12 players at a time. But the way I see it, Community warefare, faction warefare, unit warefare whatever it is... It's just the exact same thing as quickplay with new gamemodes, minus the matchmaker. Taking control of planets isnt much more then a fight over red vs blue squares on a revolving theoretical planet. That we never get to see. That just pisses me off sometimes.

That rewards only units in the fight over ground, thats exactly the same as the other planets. I mean I could solo drop, and solo drop helping taking planets, yet only the majority unit gets a mc reward for it. If you ask me those kinda rewards should go out to the entire faction players that participated in keeping the planet. Yes divide them up in fractions of a mc, between all faction players, keep them in a special pool, call it somethign else that we exchange for mc when we get enough. Don't just hand out mc currency to only the owning unit. There were other players that helped too. I really do understand this game is all about team dynamics. But this emphisis on unit only play is really urking me.

AS a solo player, what is keeping me playing this mode of play? Even as a small unit, what is keeping me here in this area of the game? Small units will never have the man power to take the planets with much larger units getting the name on the planet? I thought the rewards for owning planets was supposed to keep players wanting to play the mode. Not just the units with enough manpower to get the tag on a planet. Not too mention every one is seperated into smaller and smaller player groups, divide those groups up into the number of factions, divide them into the number of planets under attack/or defending. Divide them up into 2 different modes, scouting and invasion. Maybe I'm wrong here, and things will be okay.

I just want a mode where I can keep playing, not having to constantly wait for something to happen. Either it be an opposing team, or for match maker to do it's job. The biggest downfall of the entire game I thing is this, wait, and loading, the lack of a persistent feel. With the exact same maps on planets that are nothing more then squares around a icon of a planet. This post is all personal. Some people may not feel as I do, so don't take anything personally. anyone...

So last edit, how does one solve this problem? Again personal opinion. You dont have to have a fully persistant world to have a persistent feel.

1) Streamline map creation, make simpler maps, have similar maps with the same existing resources. But mix them up, for different maps, with a similar climate or look, or feel. For each planet. No one said you guys needed to create every single existing planet in battletech lore, but hey it was a cool idea. Now work on them! Or have a single map per planet, that are spawned instances of the map so people can spill over the 12v12 limit, but if it's a engine limitation it's always gonna be 12 vs 12 max.

( I've always felt that those areas of color around planets, the instances of battles happening, should act more like conquest points, gradually giving ownership over time. Not hey you've won the match here's your blue square! So the majority of winning players of a faction will gradually turn ownership, but people can dynamically drop in to turn the tide of battle. I dunno maybe i'm not explaining my idea right...)


2) Allow people to join existing fights to reinforce fights. Maybe this is where solo playersm and smaller units come in. "a real call to arms" Or create a way to travel over into other instances of fights on a planet. Factions wars are not just a single instance of 12v12 fights. Nothing urks me like the idea of reinforcement is to queue up another match vs totally different people or unit. ( when i said you have the tech for people in place for people to be able to do this b4, i meant you have a mechanism in place for people to leave matches, and rejoin, why cant it be modified for totally different people, or units to join in?

3) emphasis, FACTIONS, not units. Units are social groups of FACTIONS.

4) reward entire factions for keeping, or taking, planets, not just units. Mercs, and freelancers should have to sign a contract to a faction, or a unit, of a faction. So they can be rewarded accordingly.

5) Instead of a perceived, or theoretical persistence world/battle/galaxy. Actually make it persistent. Instead of just a scoreboard of fake planets.

Getting angry, lol done editing. Maybe I do not explain my ideas and opinions right, I can't type very well due to hand and wrist issues. But I am very very passionate about having a more persistent feel, or persistent world to fight in. Like i said b4 Nothing pisses me off more then not being able to help my fellow falcons, when they are loosing a battle, and when I want to help! YOUR IDEA OF ME HELPING IS TO FIGHT DIFFERENT PEOPLE. IN A DIFFERENT AREA, OF A COLOR SQUARE.

Edited by Omaha, 24 April 2016 - 06:58 PM.

[Lozruet Gravemind]

Lances107, on 24 April 2016 - 03:40 PM, said:

I have done a ton of quick plays and soon I hope to do a ton of faction warfare. I am also new to MWO but I have seen my fair share. Here is the truth its not the developers, its not the maps, its not the weapons, it is the player base. Too many kids will not risk thier hides in a push, they prefer to snipe get kills in, and take nearly zero damage. Now against a good team that understands mobility this does not happen. This does not happen because that team will encircle the team standing still get in close and shred them left to right. If you want someone to blame because the matchs have become more sniper like and less battlemech like well blame the player base. I lost count on how many matchs a team I am with lost because only a quarter of us pushed and took advantage of a situation well lights and others were trying to play sniper.

Now lets say they do what you suggest cut the damage down and make mechs more damage resistant, then players will just stand still in the open and keep shooting. I think your giving players too much credit in the area of brains. Not to say I am perfect, ive screwed up several times, but Ive also done well during matches.

As far as that trailer yea some of that was over done compared to actual game play.

Me alone I enjoy playing this game and here is why. No other game would have developers that have balls and spine enough to put together a huge faction warfare map/system/ multiple factions like they have done here. What they have done here is staggering. I dont doubt their will be generic repeats when I get heavy into faction play, but the sheer scope is amazing. The mind is required to play this game, another reason why I enjoy this game. This is no dumbed down game where one weapon does it all. Even a mech running multiple gausses, in the right hands, would be hard pressed to win if a brawler came along who had skill. Each weapon set up gives you advantages and disadvantages. I have yet to see a weapon that out does everything. You have to think and you have to be willing to ask questions to get good at this game.

Now all that being said the biggest issue with this game is the huge cost of everything for new players. You think its a fluke that most players sport heavy mechs. A heavy clan mech costs 14 million cbills on average, and a assault clan mech costs 17 to 18 million cbills for a good one The heavy class is right smack dab in the middle between excessive cost for a assault mech and light cost for a light/medium mech. Also another downside the fact that clan mechs are not being made true to the universe. Allot of players started out on mechwarrior 2, which means they will prefer clans over IS.

Last but not least this comes down to the player this game is player vrs player, which requires team work. Too many kids have grown up believing in this hero crap and I can solo everything. This inclines them not to work with the team. AKA as alpha lances not during their job during certain matchs. You can not blame the devs for everything, your gripes in the match, is all the player base.

Know the feeling. This is why we get Assaults that dont build for the brawl OR push. Because to many times have I been in a team, in an Assault, called and started a push, only to be facing an Atlas, Direwolf, Dragon, and a Stormcrow all by myself. This is a TEAM shooter, most of the complaints are about making it so people can succeed WITHOUT a team. There needs to be a bigger emphasis on working as a team and some kind of bonus for actually COMMUNICATING. Also with the advent or the report function you cant call out the morons in game anymore as they will simply get butthurt and report you. When did games go from punishing those who cant/wont learn how to play or work with others to pandering to the lowest common denominator?

[wanderer]

Malachy Karrde, on 23 April 2016 - 10:04 PM, said:

Well thought out post. I've always thought that weapons in mwo do too much damage. Mechs in the books were tough. Mechs in the previous games were tough. It should take a minute or two of pounding on someone to take them down. Maps are too big, and being able to alpha someone down in one or two shots is just ridiculous.

It's more "weapons in MWO can do all of their damage to one spot at nearly any effective range".

50 damage spread over a 'Mech is yellow armor damage. 50 damage to one spot will burn half the armor off an Atlas in one salvo, and you've got multiple people firing those alphas at a single target with the obvious result.

[Mister Blastman]

I'll run around in Dark Souls 3 PvP, say three of us versus three of another and the fight will literally last minutes on end... sometimes longer, quaffing potions, swinging swords and hurling magic. Many close calls occur, folks run and weave between monsters trying to bait and lure each other into a disadvantageous position. The control of the fight ebbs and flows, it is constantly changing as each group vies for the edge over the other as we run all over the map pounding on each other. It is intense, fun and nail-biting.

In MWO, I poke my head out from a rock... blam blam blam! Robot explodes.

Okay, it usually doesn't happen that way. Oftentimes in MWO my teammates will run from combat, hide behind rocks and pray to the mineral gods that fortune shine on them and coat their armor with a dirt-like camo so they might not be seen and survive the round. And then four 'mechs look over the hill and blast them in one salvo, and so it continues, one by one my teammates die as I try and spread damage and soon enough, everyone is dead, oftentimes to a couple alpha strikes.

Which game sounds like more fun?

[MechWarrior319348]

They didn't get enough new players when it launched, instead they trickled in over time.

If a shitload of new people were to join at once, then they would all have each other to fight, that way they could learn.

But when they trinkle in like that, we end up having periods of low population, thats when the PSR system begins to match experienced players against rookies.

Then in turn, those rookies are like, "well **** this game."

Edited by Gigliowanananacom, 24 April 2016 - 06:22 PM.

[sycocys]

Malachy Karrde, on 23 April 2016 - 10:04 PM, said:

Maps are too big,

ROTFL, even the biggest maps aren't nearly big enough.

[2fast2stompy]

Mister Blastman, on 24 April 2016 - 06:16 PM, said:

Which game sounds like more fun?

MWO, and I'm not even joking.

Add healing consumables to MWO, and you'd have the same "close calls", "ebbing and flowing", "running and weaving between monsters (rocks)", etc. etc.
And it would suck.

And I'm not imagining either game based on your hyperbole

[MechWarrior319348]

2fast2stompy, on 24 April 2016 - 06:25 PM, said:

MWO, and I'm not even joking.

Add healing consumables to MWO, and you'd have the same "close calls", "ebbing and flowing", "running and weaving between monsters (rocks)", etc. etc.
And it would suck.

And I'm not imagining either game based on your hyperbole

Like the game MDK? where you run around eating giant animated apples and hams to gain health?

[Mister Blastman]

2fast2stompy, on 24 April 2016 - 06:25 PM, said:

MWO, and I'm not even joking.

Add healing consumables to MWO, and you'd have the same "close calls", "ebbing and flowing", "running and weaving between monsters (rocks)", etc. etc.
And it would suck.

And I'm not imagining either game based on your hyperbole

Sorry, it isn't hyperbole. It's truthful retelling of what actually happens. I know it hurts, but it will be okay. MWO isn't the golden pinnacle of perfection some here desperately imagine it to be.

[Davegt27]

Malorish, on 23 April 2016 - 09:45 PM, said:

So we all know that Steam players are jumping ship on MWO. IMO, the biggest reason isn't balance (better, but not great . . . too many underperforming mechs), community warfare (getting better), or lack of new maps.

The problem is that the game doesn't deliver on it's advertisement. I mean, look at this awesome looking game in the Steam Advertisement below. The one where mechs battle at close, intense ranges in exciting combat!



Does this look like MWO? Not even remotely.

Mostly we sit under cover, come out for a split second, alpha strike the living crap out of some poor noob who made a tiny positioning mistake, duck back under cover, rinse and repeat. Oh sure, towards the end of matches there's a rush once one side has the numbers. And we all can recount that 10% of the time that a real brawl decides the game (rather than being a mopping up action).

But this game is nowhere to be found in Alpha Strike Warrior. Our mechs do far too much damage, from far too great a range, in far too bursty a window.

So people get tired of building brawlers, only to get wiped out before they even reach weapons range. They get tired of being obliterated when they make small mistakes in positioning or cover.

We all laugh at them and call them noobs, while we "smart" players stay hunkered down. Meanwhile MWO continues to hemorrhage "noobs" who are trying to play the game in the trailer above, but keep getting wiped out.

But really, wouldn't we all rather be playing the game in the trailer?

I would. . . .

cool video

[MadcatX]

Mister Blastman, on 24 April 2016 - 06:16 PM, said:

I'll run around in Dark Souls 3 PvP, say three of us versus three of another and the fight will literally last minutes on end... sometimes longer, quaffing potions, swinging swords and hurling magic. Many close calls occur, folks run and weave between monsters trying to bait and lure each other into a disadvantageous position. The control of the fight ebbs and flows, it is constantly changing as each group vies for the edge over the other as we run all over the map pounding on each other. It is intense, fun and nail-biting.

In MWO, I poke my head out from a rock... blam blam blam! Robot explodes.

Okay, it usually doesn't happen that way. Oftentimes in MWO my teammates will run from combat, hide behind rocks and pray to the mineral gods that fortune shine on them and coat their armor with a dirt-like camo so they might not be seen and survive the round. And then four 'mechs look over the hill and blast them in one salvo, and so it continues, one by one my teammates die as I try and spread damage and soon enough, everyone is dead, oftentimes to a couple alpha strikes.

Which game sounds like more fun?

Like any game, PvP experience may vary. So far the majority of my DS3 PvP I've seen are f'ing annoying cheeze builds that hit faster then your poise can effectively take until you die.

[Omaha]

Everyday I just wish for a PLANETSIDE type of game, with battletech/mechwarrior stuff. Tanks, elementals, mechs, infantry, aerospacefighters, dropsships. ALL OF THE ABOVE.

[MechaBattler]

If you want numbers. The game needs to be really accessible and cater to the casual gamer. Also need to constantly reward casual players for doing things. Like the missions World of Tanks has. With Mech packs being the primary income, I don't think rewarding c-bills for completing missions would hurt their bottom line. Gotta keep them pressing the button to get a reward.

[Johnny Z]

SplashDown, on 24 April 2016 - 03:15 PM, said:

For starters let me say that imo this game will always have a hard time keeping players here becuz of the grind for new players.
Im reffering to the mastery system..players should be able to master a single variant of a mech this allows them to use credits earned to max out that mech.rather than spending hard earned credits to have to master variants of mechs they prolly never wanted to spend money on in the 1st place...that can be a major downer...it was for me when i started.I truely think that by changing this it would peek the attention of new players..instead of current system which promotes bordum and players simply seek entertainment elsewhere for something with a faster pace.
Another thing that would promote more players hanging around is allowing players that have been killed in a match to leave that match to play in another mech and still recieve full rewards for the battle they left..no-1 really wants to be forced to sit n watch some-1 else have fun after theyve died.

The first part of this is right in one way and everyone knows it. The new player experience sucks and has always sucked.

That's not really negative because up until recently development has been focused on a complete meta game I think its called. This faction play is the setting for everything else in the game to take place in and around. I don't think the entire game will be focused on it but rather faction play is the back drop and context for the rest of the game.

So anyway, I guess some day they will focus on the skill tree like everyone has been asking them to do, as well as pilot character creation and improvements to the tutorial. Massive improvements to the tutorial I expect.

I really think this game is not trying to hard to become well known and accessible to new players yet. I really think its in a building/beta phase. I also wish they would hurry up because this framework game with so many missing and half done features looks like it could be really great.

In fact I hope they have been working on some massive features secretly and will have a surprise some day. I could be wrong easily though. (Hint: What is that Brian guy up to? Like what does he do? He must do something. I hope its something awesome. )

Edited by Johnny Z, 24 April 2016 - 07:54 PM.