55 replies to this topic

[Tarogato]

My problem with the sense of scale: the maps are not dense enough.

There is nothing wrong with the size of the giant sequoias on Forest Colony, they are scaled similarly to those we see on Earth today. But in real world forests, there are a LOT more "medium" size trees between the "giant" ones.

Also, our city maps are pretty much to scale, but again... they aren't dense enough.

Spoiler

.. but dense:

[Johnny Z]

Mister Blastman, on 25 April 2016 - 02:53 PM, said:

Missing elements aren't a magical solution to our problems. Everything you see, feel or can touch was created by a star, either through the stellar furnace or supernova. And we can mathematically predict what elements will be created by almost any star and know this is so through observations and a technique called spectroscopy, and through this technique, we have cataloged the chemical composition of countless stars, our local planets and moons and in some instances, exceptionally large planets found with Kepler. We don't have /those/ planets entire composition--in most cases, only the atmosphere because we must observe them when passing in front of a star and capturing the light emitted from the thin atmospheric layer.

So, with that said, back to your comment about missing elements... most every planet and object in our solar system originated from the same dust cloud that was itself residue from another stellar explosion, thus the distribution of elements on our own planets will be representative of said soup and most likely, won't present any fantastic surprises that we haven't already found here on Earth.

Exceptions being of course rogue dark planets which could have been captured by our sun (see hypothetical planet 9).

So at best you have a misunderstanding--CERN is critical for research into unknown elements but, more importantly, into the subatomic structure--both bosons and fermions and other mathematically predicted sub-components we have not found yet.

Lastly, your post about all this did little to address his original question where you wrongly insulted him in reply.

HAHA. This is from the same crew that's telling everyone that everyone thought the earth was flat until recently, when in fact it was known to be round since at least ancient Greece, and now they know everything going on across the universe? So funny. Truth is they know little more than was known centuries ago. Its true telescopes and such have improved and they can see further than ever before but centuries ago astronomers could see a long way to and had much figured out. Ill tell you what they havnt done half as much recently as they claim. But for their budget reasons why give them a hard time about it.

Their beautifull multi colored pictures of the stars are colored. To make them look awesome.

This is whats known for sure. The theories as to what the Egyptians knew is another thing entirely. Thing is even those theories concerning times not to long ago relatively cant be disproven because fact is no one knows for sure. There is ongoing arguments as to when the great pyramids were built.

Edited by Johnny Z, 25 April 2016 - 03:57 PM.

[2fast2stompy]

The game has no universal scale, and it shows.

Mech size relative to each other and their mass makes no sense.
Mech size compared to buildings seems to vary from map to map.
Etc.

Remember the maps in MW4? Those made me feel like I was controlling a big robot.
MWO makes me feel like I'm the damn Megazord or something on one map, and then basically a human on another

Edited by 2fast2stompy, 25 April 2016 - 03:20 PM.

[Impyrium]

I've always had the feeling that PGI's map designers struggle with designing maps that make sense from the scale we're playing at. It doesn't help the map props, especially the grass, are way too large to make sense from a human's perspective. River City looks great now, but it still feels like a toy city.

But then again, MWO's maps are designed around the same mentality a CoD map is designed, rather than actual terrain that might suit a sim. It doesn't help that the only way people play/want to play MWO is brain-dead skirmish with no actual thinking or objectives involved.

[Mister Blastman]

Johnny Z, on 25 April 2016 - 03:08 PM, said:

HAHA. This is from the same crew that's telling everyone that everyone thought the earth was flat until recently, when in fact it was known to be round since at least ancient Greece, and now they know everything going on across the universe? So funny. Truth is they know little more than was known centuries ago. Its true telescopes and such have improved and they can see further than ever before but centuries ago astronomers could see a long way to and had much figured out. Ill tell you what they havnt done half as much recently as they claim. But for their budget reasons why give them a hard time about it.

Their beautifull multi colored pictures of the stars are colored. To make them look awesome.

This is whats known for sure. The theories as to what the Egyptians knew is another thing entirely. Thing is even those theories concerning times not to long ago relatively cant be disproven because fact is no one knows for sure. There is ongoing arguments as to when the great pyramids were built.

So am I to take it you make a mockery of science?

[Johnny Z]

Mister Blastman, on 25 April 2016 - 04:14 PM, said:

So am I to take it you make a mockery of science?

LOL. I was thinking something like that but I couldn't have said it as well.

[Mister Blastman]

Johnny Z, on 25 April 2016 - 04:31 PM, said:

LOL. I was thinking something like that but I couldn't have said it as well.

Interesting.

You also said,

Quote

Truth is they know little more than was known centuries ago.

If that was the case, then how come you are writing posts on an electronic machine that communicates using fermions--which is possible due to relatively recent discoveries in quantum mechanics that did not exist thousands of years ago?

Oh, I guess you overlooked that.

I guess you also overlooked that Hans Lippershey invented the first telescope in 1608 and Galileo subsequently improved up on it by 1610. And I guess you are ignorant of calculus being created by Newton, the proven workings of relativity, the contributions made by Neils Bohr, Richard Feynman, John Stewart Bell and Carl Sagan, to name a ridiculously small few.

Oh well. Good thing those Egyptians had the internet and space travel and television and computers and marvelous technologies that survived the tests of time that we've dug up and shown how advanced they really were.

Yeah.

Have a nice day!

I'll waste my digital breath on no more of your madness.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 25 April 2016 - 04:44 PM.

[Barantor]

I would love a map that is the busier parts of river city, but only the busier parts and then put in a map the size of polar highlands.

I know some folks would hate it, but I think there could be a lot of fun there.

[Thunder Child]

Barantor, on 25 April 2016 - 04:46 PM, said:

I would love a map that is the busier parts of river city, but only the busier parts and then put in a map the size of polar highlands.

I know some folks would hate it, but I think there could be a lot of fun there.

Reminds me of that City Map in MW 4, with the Dropship Pad in the middle. We need a solid City Map. Block to block warfare, with jumpjet mechs hopping from building to building (provided they could find a way to get up that high in the first place), and Highway Overpasses that become Sniper Alleys. Scouts would be ridiculously important in a map like this, because Sight Lines would be severely hindered.

+3 from me for a decent City Map.

[vandalhooch]

Johnny Z, on 25 April 2016 - 02:39 PM, said:

Now your talking about the collider they just finished building spanning between Switzerland and France.

The super collider does not create new elements. The current colliders most used for new element creation are in Darhmstad, Germany and Dubna, Russia.

Quote

Ok so what? Think there isn't any missing elements out there in space?

I'm not convinced you understand what the term "missing" means in this context. It's as if you think there might be a new element discovered between carbon and nitrogen.

Quote

Think again.

Learn some physics concerning where the atoms of our universe come from.

Quote

They are probly hoping to get lucky and find some on Mars or another planet in our solar system even.

No, they really aren't. Every planet and most bodies in our solar system (with the rare exception of probably a few Oort cloud objects) all formed from the same interstellar cloud.

Quote

Which is at least a small part of why going into space is being done.

The search for new elements is not one part of why we explore space.

Quote

Almost all of what people know now has been known for a long time, in some cases a very long time, except very very few exceptions.

What?

Quote

The only thing holding everything back was production capability. 100 years ago everyone was riding horses except very few. Like .0001% or something. 85 years ago the largest vehicle to ever take to the skies to this day was flying around. The Chinese had gunpowder for how long? They just didn't use it. The Roman empire didn't like using it either.

When Marco Polo came back from China and was going to make gunpowder among other things public the first thing they did was throw him in prison.

Your understanding of history is nearly as bad as your comprehension of science.

[vandalhooch]

Johnny Z, on 25 April 2016 - 03:08 PM, said:

HAHA. This is from the same crew that's telling everyone that everyone thought the earth was flat until recently, when in fact it was known to be round since at least ancient Greece,

What crew is that exactly? Who are you picturing as members of this "crew?"

Quote

and now they know everything going on across the universe?

Seriously? No astrophysicist would ever claim we know everything going on but we do know where the atoms of our universe come from.

Quote

So funny. Truth is they know little more than was known centuries ago. Its true telescopes and such have improved and they can see further than ever before but centuries ago astronomers could see a long way to and had much figured out. Ill tell you what they havnt done half as much recently as they claim. But for their budget reasons why give them a hard time about it.

This reads like a ten year old who decided to not do his homework and is just trying to bluff his way through his research report. Just stop.

Quote

Their beautifull multi colored pictures of the stars are colored. To make them look awesome.

And do you have the slightest clue what data the different colors in those images are built from?

Quote

This is whats known for sure. The theories as to what the Egyptians knew is another thing entirely. Thing is even those theories concerning times not to long ago relatively cant be disproven because fact is no one knows for sure. There is ongoing arguments as to when the great pyramids were built.

Stop babbling and go do your homework. You aren't fooling anyone with this nonsense.

[Johnny Z]

vandalhooch, on 25 April 2016 - 09:04 PM, said:

The super collider does not create new elements. The current colliders most used for new element creation are in Darhmstad, Germany and Dubna, Russia.



I'm not convinced you understand what the term "missing" means in this context. It's as if you think there might be a new element discovered between carbon and nitrogen.



Learn some physics concerning where the atoms of our universe come from.



No, they really aren't. Every planet and most bodies in our solar system (with the rare exception of probably a few Oort cloud objects) all formed from the same interstellar cloud.



The search for new elements is not one part of why we explore space.



What?



Your understanding of history is nearly as bad as your comprehension of science.

vandalhooch, on 25 April 2016 - 09:12 PM, said:

What crew is that exactly? Who are you picturing as members of this "crew?"



Seriously? No astrophysicist would ever claim we know everything going on but we do know where the atoms of our universe come from.



This reads like a ten year old who decided to not do his homework and is just trying to bluff his way through his research report. Just stop.



And do you have the slightest clue what data the different colors in those images are built from?



Stop babbling and go do your homework. You aren't fooling anyone with this nonsense.

I am going to answer this almost entirely incorrect bunch of random statements with a single answer.

The data they use to color their pictures of the stars is about the same data a 5 yo uses when coloring a coloring book.

That was a witty reply but I will try be a little more serious. The word "discovery" explains a lot since it is uncovering answers that are already there. Credit where credit is due to any discovery but theory is just that, a bunch of talk and talk is cheap. Although it can be interesting stuff it should never be taken to seriously.

To another reply, "science" by definition is what can be proven. Calling theory science is falling into the realm of religion.

Not entirely unrelated, but everyone knew the earth was round for a very long time because the answer was in front of their face every day when the shadow of the earth was seen on the moon. Best to not take anything that isn't 100% for sure to seriously. All common knowledge really.

Edited by Johnny Z, 25 April 2016 - 11:26 PM.

[Dibujor]

[Amsro]

Johnny Z, on 25 April 2016 - 11:01 PM, said:

Not entirely unrelated, but everyone knew the earth was round for a very long time because the answer was in front of their face every day when the shadow of the earth was seen on the moon. Best to not take anything that isn't 100% for sure to seriously. All common knowledge really.

Earth is obviously creating the shadow on the "dark side" of the moon.

Edited by Amsro, 26 April 2016 - 12:14 AM.

[AWOL 01]

Okay guys, let's keep it on topic. I realize that there could be massive structures and plants in alien worlds, and there are many on earth, but are they the only places battles take place? Also, all of the maps currently have gravity very similar to earth, so physics would still say that those crystals and trees would have a hard time staying up under their own weight.

Don't get me wrong - the maps look great and it's awesome being in alien planets - but do we really need everything to be massive? On forest colony I would much rather have tons of the smaller trees, making it difficult to see and impeding weapons fire.

Also, Wisconsin has some awesome forests if I do say so myself. However, when making this topic I was thinking more of the farmlands with rolling hills, and how cool it would be to have battles in areas like that.

[Tarogato]

Johnny Z, on 25 April 2016 - 11:01 PM, said:

I am going to answer this almost entirely incorrect bunch of random statements with a single answer.

The data they use to color their pictures of the stars is about the same data a 5 yo uses when coloring a coloring book.

That was a witty reply but I will try be a little more serious. The word "discovery" explains a lot since it is uncovering answers that are already there. Credit where credit is due to any discovery but theory is just that, a bunch of talk and talk is cheap. Although it can be interesting stuff it should never be taken to seriously.

To another reply, "science" by definition is what can be proven. Calling theory science is falling into the realm of religion.

Not entirely unrelated, but everyone knew the earth was round for a very long time because the answer was in front of their face every day when the shadow of the earth was seen on the moon. Best to not take anything that isn't 100% for sure to seriously. All common knowledge really.

You must be entertaining at parties. Remind me to not go to any.

[adamts01]

This is my new favorite thread.

Johnny Z, on 25 April 2016 - 02:39 PM, said:

Think there isn't any missing elements out there in space? Think again. They are probly hoping to get lucky and find some on Mars or another planet in our solar system even.

That's not how this element thing you speak of works. You take a single proton and get hydrogen, add a single proton and get helium, add another proton and get lithium.... That's how we know what's missing and can predict how that element will behave.

Dingo Red, on 25 April 2016 - 03:43 PM, said:

But then again, MWO's maps are designed around the same mentality a CoD map is designed, rather than actual terrain that might suit a sim. It doesn't help that the only way people play/want to play MWO is brain-dead skirmish with no actual thinking or objectives involved.

That sums up half my problems with MWO. All of a sudden when we get a map like polar, your scouts get to work, you have to keep moving, flank with your brawlers while the ranged guys keep the enemy occupied.... It's a real divide in the community. I'm hoping CW turns in to more if a sim and the arena maps stay in quick play.

AWOL 01, on 26 April 2016 - 03:59 AM, said:

However, when making this topic I was thinking more of the farmlands with rolling hills, and how cool it would be to have battles in areas like that.

My above post relates. Polar is the closed thing we have to a true battlefield and what you describe as open rolling hills. There are two big problems though. PGI said they'd deliver a strategic, mech simulation "thinking man's shooter" and we got e-sports TDM. Whatever. More open levels like that would 1) greatly piss off half the community and 2) require a much more balanced game than "whack-a-mech" where poking out from cover to alpha is the only way to survive more than a few seconds.

[Johnny Z]

Dibujor, on 25 April 2016 - 11:44 PM, said:

LOL. Yes exactly. or rather its very likely there are some kind of aliens out there somewhere. Rumour has it they look like birds. Although I forget what those bird aliens in Battletech are called.

Amsro, on 26 April 2016 - 12:12 AM, said:

Earth is obviously creating the shadow on the "dark side" of the moon.

The same side of the moon faces the earth all the time coinciding with its orbit of the earth. Coincidence or?



Well I'm not waiting for someone to answer. The answer is gravity. The side facing the earth is heavier than the side facing space.

Edited by Johnny Z, 26 April 2016 - 06:01 AM.

[Dibujor]

Johnny Z, on 26 April 2016 - 05:47 AM, said:

LOL. Yes exactly. or rather its very likely there are some kind of aliens out there somewhere.

You know, all that discussion about "scifi space magic" to explain things when we had the answer in front of us from one of our most intelligent thinkers....

Johnny Z, on 26 April 2016 - 05:47 AM, said:

The same side of the moon faces the earth all the time coinciding with its orbit of the earth. Coincidence or?


Well I'm not waiting for someone to answer. The answer is gravity. The side facing the earth is heavier than the side facing space.

Well, it's not exactly that it is heavier, but yes, gravity has to do with the answer, not the shadow of the earth over the moon. I don't know where he gets his science "knowledge" but...... hey whatever.


Now, on the actual topic of the thread. Yeah, I think the scale of things is way off (trees being the worst offenders). It's not that there aren't things that big in the universe, but this is a game. About ginormous robots. You should feel like you're actually piloting a big mech (heard about a bit of immersion?), not like a human in a powered armor surrounded by doll houses

Edited by Dibujor, 26 April 2016 - 06:02 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Dibujor, on 26 April 2016 - 06:01 AM, said:

You know, all that discussion about "scifi space magic" to explain things when we had the answer in front of us from one of our most intelligent thinkers....



Well, it's not exactly that it is heavier, but yes, gravity has to do with the answer, not the shadow of the earth over the moon. I don't know where he gets his science "knowledge" but...... hey whatever.


Now, on the actual topic of the thread. Yeah, I think the scale of things is way off (trees being the worst offenders). It's not that there aren't things that big in the universe, but this is a game. About ginormous robots. You should feel like you're actually piloting a big mech (heard about a bit of immersion?), not like a human in a powered armor surrounded by doll houses

My last reply was edited to include Battletech space birds so its not completely off topic.

Yes of course scale can be improved. This is why a first person mechbay of some sort cant come soon enough. The maps can continue to be improved as well of course. I think it has already been said vehicles like cars are getting extra attention some time actually.


Going completely off topic again check this out.



: Use mouse to turn the view around while watching.

Also if that crappy game can use a Lamborghini then when does MechWarrior Online get a super car?

Edited by Johnny Z, 26 April 2016 - 06:14 AM.