222 replies to this topic

[D V Devnull]

Oh wow... it's literally someone who doesn't get it...

MrKvola, on 26 April 2016 - 02:12 PM, said:

And especially for D V Devnull: we have a large number of players like yourself. Here and there some appear for a game or two. And then nobody sees them for a month. Everybody has fun. We possibly win. Or lose. Or get our teeth completely kicked in. Point being it is just overall a better experience with other people around. Plus you get your matches much faster if there is a group going... The point about having real life etc. is a little ridiculous - because we all have that. It is just how you balance things.

And no, if you don't want to join a group just because you don't want to join is not the same as posting a wall of text explaining that you have a real life. Because that's just an excuse for yourself to stay in your comfort zone. A lot of people do that.

Excuse me? When I'm talking about a Real Life, I'm talking about the kind of situation where if someone attempts to commit to being in a Unit or some other long-term thing, they collide extremely hard against someone or something else that forces them to cease and desist. Further, the situation is more-than-likely so extremely stress-inducing, that they're left with no choice but to let go of what they were attempting to do. However, the details of those Real Life issues are not for this forum. Don't even try to ask, because I'm sure it would be an MWO CoC Violation. (In fact, as I was typing this post, I checked. You ARE bordering on an MWO CoC Violation.) So, quit trying to force your "Unit up or get out" idea on others, because that kind of toxicity is never what should be in the MWO Community.

I still remember when MWO was way beyond more inviting back in "CW, Beta 2", and I wish "FW, Phase 3" had kept that feeling. Unfortunately, it hasn't, and unless PGI fixes that fast, they're going to lose a lot of people. I'm no longer entering the game for a myriad of reasons, both linked to my personal Real Life, and PGI's failures with developing MWO. Unless they fix critical things that people who must stay in Casual play modes require, you won't be seeing me in-game again. Go enjoy your miserable little existence, but don't be surprised when MWO dies out from under you.

~Mr. D. V. "If this doesn't get the point across, nothing will... but it will show that other person's incompetence." Devnull

[Fastwind]

Livewyr, on 26 April 2016 - 02:07 PM, said:

Interesting complaint. If only there was a workaround, like going to a unit that was in the faction you desired, or starting a unit and having likeminded people joining you.



Interesting, considering they didn't warrant a second queue, and before you go ahead and blame rewards, lack of rewards doesn't account for not having THAT many solos. They weren't getting them before, why would they be concerned now? (Hell, how many of them do you think even knew they weren't getting the rewards that units were? Most people don't check forums...)

There just aren't that many solos.



If you're talking about putting quickplay matches as affecting Faction Warfare, you're dreadfully mistaken. You would lose all the people who want to affect the map, as the results of their efforts would be randomized by newbies in trial mechs, people testing funny builds, and the general give-no-****s attitude that comes with quickplay.

There is so much i could say about your opinion and you,for example how egoistic you are and not willing to share,or how stupid you are because you rly want to wait 10 min. for a ghostdrop because not enough people are playing CW,because thats what you want
your 200 people that are in units and play regular 12vs12 CW,of which not even half are tier 3 or higher,you are a wanna be elitist
what you want is simply not fair and deviding the already thinned out devided comunity further
all i want is FAIR matchmaking and FAIR rewards for EVERYONE

[Randy Poffo]

D V Devnull, on 26 April 2016 - 02:48 PM, said:

I still remember when MWO was way beyond more inviting back in "CW, Beta 2", and I wish "FW, Phase 3" had kept that feeling. Unfortunately, it hasn't, and unless PGI fixes that fast, they're going to lose a lot of people. I'm no longer entering the game for a myriad of reasons, both linked to my personal Real Life, and PGI's failures with developing MWO. Unless they fix critical things that people who must stay in Casual play modes require, you won't be seeing me in-game again. Go enjoy your miserable little existence, but don't be surprised when MWO dies out from under you.

~Mr. D. V. "If this doesn't get the point across, nothing will... but it will show that other person's incompetence." Devnull

I too hope there is some sense of urgency, and that they communicate about what they're thinking of doing.

I was thrilled to see them try solo q. I just wish I could have played more of it. I thought that what they would do was make it so that Freelancers could initiate a q, it seemed a simple tweak. I also liked scouting mode and I actually would not have minded just dropping 4v4 repeatedly. I love piloting lights and fast mediums. I even had some hopes that they might a couple more 4v4 mission types.

I had my fill of the phase 2 style mixed q's and I definitely know they're not for me. Stomps are not fun, and joining a unit to be one of the stompers rather than the stompees is not a "fix". There is this brief window where many of us see the glimmer of possibility that CW can be something more, and PGI needs to either act during that window or else keep us in the loop so that some sort of concrete hope remains while we wait. I think if they drag their feet on this many people will just decide it's time to move on.

[MrKvola]

D V, you say you have RL commitments, yet you seem to have a lot of time to stalk the forum. And as I stated that was ALL the commitment that was required. And that was also my only point to you.

D V Devnull, on 26 April 2016 - 02:48 PM, said:

<stuff>

So, quit trying to force your "Unit up or get out" idea on others, because that kind of toxicity is never what should be in the MWO Community.

<other stuff>

I do not believe I am being toxic in any way. I am stating my experience with the game and community I am in. I am not forcing anything on you, I just do not believe your argument really applies, see above. It is still your choice to give it a try or not.

I also did in no post indicate that you need to "unit up or get out". Better get your facts straight.

I will not partake in this discussion with you anymore as you made quite apparent that you are not listening to anything anybody else has to say.

[MrKvola]

Randy Poffo, on 26 April 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

I don't feel like you're really listening to where these people are coming from. I detect almost no "hate" for the idea of joining units.

The "commitment" thing is a little bit more complicated for some people. Consider what it takes to get any benefit out of joining a unit, putting all matters of personality etc. aside.

Instant benefits: access to unit forums, TeamSpeak, senior members and their advice/tips. Real money other people have put in for you.

Randy Poffo, on 26 April 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

If you join a unit and then just q by yourself anyway, that makes no difference at all. The point is to drop as a group. Well, ok then. Now, can you be on to drop at the times that your unit does? Often times that's a sort of commitment that people can't make - the time they have free for recreation may simply not conform to any type of regular schedule.

This is a matter of finding the right group. Hard to do right now and instead of the discussion that is ongoing maybe we should be looking at ways to better integrate the huge community that plays MWO, but otherwise lives outside MWO. Perhaps then we would have sufficient population in groups in CW to start a matchmaker... to everybody's benefit.

Randy Poffo, on 26 April 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

If the unit is large enough then they will end up having full groups. And here's what a number of other people were trying to express: if they don't have the time to commit to train with the unit and learn their tactics and so forth, how can they really ask for someone else to sit out of that group to let them in for that one game in a day that they might have time to play? They can't, unless they're selfish, and so they'd end up just dropping solo or with one or two people anyway, so for them what's the point?

By my experience more often than not there were groups that were not full, even if there were 12man groups online. Also it is often a matter of a match or two until a spot opens, if you want to join a specific group. Any kind of tactics or anything is optional, if tactics are involved your Drop Commander will issue instructions. If there is none it is an enhanced pug drop.

Randy Poffo, on 26 April 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

You may have a point that there are units out there that can accommodate players like that. But it's a non-trivial matter to actually find them. And anyone who's ever played in a "social" guild in WoW will know that you're rolling the dice if you join one, and even a group that looks like a no-lose situation can turn into bullsh*t and headaches real quick. I don't know that their concerns are as easily answered as you seem to think.

Again, point above. The discussion should be how to better integrate a community where everybody finds their corner... And then is able to give the stuff at least a try before they call it quits. Removing social context from essentially a social game makes little sense to me...

The whole point I was trying to bring across is that there are friendly casual groups with people online around the clock. And that I also understand bad experience that people may have had, but there are other options out there. That's it.

[Morggo]

MrKvola, on 26 April 2016 - 03:20 PM, said:

...lots of stuff and sales pitch...

I don't mean 'sales pitch' negatively... however when the short response to all of your explanations from a Soloists point of view is "So? I. don't. Want. To. Be. In. A. Unit." it just reads as lots of reasons to convert to the Unit point of view. (note, I've yet to read a single post so far trying to sway Unit players to give up their preferred play style and just come live in Puglandia.)

MrKvola, on 26 April 2016 - 03:20 PM, said:

Again, point above. The discussion should be how to better integrate a community where everybody finds their corner... And then is able to give the stuff at least a try before they call it quits. Removing social context from essentially a social game makes little sense to me...

Again, my point ... we know where we want our "corner" to be. And it's generally not in your Unit queue. Once again, the root of your argument hinges upon Soloists giving up and Joining a Unit.... I'm all for integrating a Community, but not if I am forced to conform to some ideal I may not share. Result? Fun ends. What I am struggling with is why the pro-unit crowd believes the ONLY way to have community and social aspect is being in a Unit or else? Because I know from frequent personal MWO-ing that I have lots of comm chatter, laugh myself silly at times, get frustrated... you know.. things that occur when Socializing .... all in Puglandia. Just sayin'

[Randy Poffo]

MrKvola, on 26 April 2016 - 03:20 PM, said:

Again, point above. The discussion should be how to better integrate a community where everybody finds their corner... And then is able to give the stuff at least a try before they call it quits. Removing social context from essentially a social game makes little sense to me...

Well it might surprise you to hear that even the people you're talking with don't disagree with you that much on that point. Actually if you look at my previous posts in this thread, I have said things on this you would probably agree with.

What we actually have is not a good platform for the social aspects of this game to work themselves out. And until that is fixed, these players have a strong point.

Actually there was a very worthwhile short video by Extra Credits on this sort of thing, with a longer series to follow it up:

Edited by Randy Poffo, 26 April 2016 - 03:33 PM.

[Fobhopper]

Randy Poffo, on 26 April 2016 - 03:32 PM, said:

Well it might surprise you to hear that even the people you're talking with don't disagree with you that much on that point. Actually if you look at my previous posts in this thread, I have said things on this you would probably agree with.

What we actually have is not a good platform for the social aspects of this game to work themselves out. And until that is fixed, these players have a strong point.

Actually there was a very worthwhile short video by Extra Credits on this sort of thing, with a longer series to follow it up:

I would like to add that the fact that there are hard separations between who can and cant play against each other.

Everyone here, from unit players AND pug's will tell you that Unit vs Pugs sucked. It is universally hated because the Unit players are running optimal builds, have better support structure and better complimentary builds and better cohesion. They may not be actually better than the PUG players (which could all be Tier1 meta mech players), And while the pug players may be better as solo players than the Unit players, because they lack the support, communication and strictly set up drop decks, you literally have a group of 12 individuals playing against a unified Unit. The great majority of the time pugs lost, and lost hard. While they may be superior pilots on an individual metric, a single player with limited resources isn't going to be able to take on 12 players at once and win.

Right now MWO lacks the group system to make PUGs better, and the community to support the training of pugs.

The absolute requirement of have a damn unit tag already puts up a wall between freelancers and unit players to prevent them from playing against each other. Unit loyalist can't drop with freelancers unless a call to arms is created, and merc players can only join them if they are working together in faction chat to coordinate drops. There are literally 3 walls prefenting each other from working together cohesively, but reverting back to CW/FW 1&2 has clearly already shown it doesnt work.

What needs to happen is the freelancer option to be removed, so that individual pugs can play together and work together in FW without needing some kind of unit tag just to get in. Pug players will learn the maps, will learn what mechs and build work and get an understanding of the maps, without suffering the punishing waste of ******* time of pugs vs units like CW2 was. If you have a unit tag but dont have the peeps on to drop, then drop with mercs. Merc units dont have enough peeps to do anything, then the solo merc can still be grouped up with the individual loyalist (or unit) player for drops and work together. That produces a community that will work together and help get things going in the right direction.

Thats the best that can be done right now, because there is no tutorial FW that can be played, and the only alternative is to join a merc or loyalist unit, which leaving when you find something better for you comes with seriously harsh penalties (which exist for a reason, but are considerably onerous). Until PGI puts in a tutorial that can help with group training, particularly for FW so that people can learn without getting punished, merging the queues is going to result in only the most hardcore of players playing FW, and the rest of us sitting in the boring quickplay queue until Solaris and the PVE campaign makes it into the game.

[PFC Carsten]

Hopefully, no solos will think of something stupid like bringing 4 Novas with 12 Flamers each to merged queue to voice their protest.

[Livewyr]

Fastwind, on 26 April 2016 - 03:03 PM, said:

There is so much i could say about your opinion and you,for example how egoistic you are and not willing to share,or how stupid you are because you rly want to wait 10 min. for a ghostdrop because not enough people are playing CW,because thats what you want
your 200 people that are in units and play regular 12vs12 CW,of which not even half are tier 3 or higher,you are a wanna be elitist
what you want is simply not fair and deviding the already thinned out devided comunity further
all i want is FAIR matchmaking and FAIR rewards for EVERYONE

Insults. Interesting. Those make the best arguments.

Do me a favor and take your virtual social justice campaign to any other game with advancement/real money involved.
Demand fair involvement for everyone involved, regardless of their contribution, involvement, or amount of playing.

I would especially like to see you download and install an MMO and then rage on the forums about how they won't make a 1man end game boss for you to tackle so you can get the end game rewards too. (Or how you can't take your level 1 into the end game raid because the raiders won't let you.)

Those people are so unfair and elitist.

Edited by Livewyr, 26 April 2016 - 04:10 PM.

[D V Devnull]

MrKvola, on 26 April 2016 - 03:16 PM, said:

D V, you say you have RL commitments, yet you seem to have a lot of time to stalk the forum. And as I stated that was ALL the commitment that was required. And that was also my only point to you.

The commitments in Real Life which I have still leave me near a computer, but don't give me any consistent allocation of time to jump in-game on other people's schedules. Your seeing me so much on the Forum today is actually somewhat a rarity compared to the normal. Unfortunately, you're not allowed to have any further details, as the MWO CoC dispermits you gaining such knowledge, and I would have some Real Life problems if I said anything anyway. But the long and short is that I'm literally blocked from joining a Unit due to those Real Life things. Simply understand that, and hopefully your eyes will be more open to the world around you.

~D. V. "I think MrKvola is another one of those inept people who can't understand the less fortunate." Devnull

[Elendil]

Since this seems to have devolved into a discussion of group vs. solo play, I'm totally going to stick my oar in:
I have a bit of a phobia of joining groups usually, and guilds for that matter.

I use my computer in a space I share with roommates, so I don't like teamspeak blaring across the room, or talking to people who aren't there while my roommates are trying to watch something. I don't want to be "that guy".
And I like to take little breaks between matches, whereas in groups it's usually a nose-to-the-grindstone thing.

But I don't mind filling in a gap for an organized team and following orders, then dropping out after the match, and 10 minutes later after fiddling with my mech I drop with some new group and do the same thing.
However, being dropped in with a totally unorganized group of solos and getting stomped by an organized group sucks, and is usually what happens.
The only people who want that are people who live by stats, like MercStar and their associated units.

The thing is, getting totally stomped on your first couple matches will drive pretty much every casual player away from the game. Even one really bad time makes a huge impression on the stompee, especially if it's a unit of not-so-graceful-winners.
And frankly, there are a lot of people who just aren't that good, or don't have the time to become that good. They still want to contribute and feel useful, and if they feel helpless and totally outclassed they'll just leave.

I agree that the game is a lot better with a real group, and a leader (that's why I think faction matches should have a dedicated leader spectating and giving orders).
But there are a lot of people (like me) who inherently shy away from social content. And frankly it feels like there's a basic, inherent assumption that if you suck, you don't deserve to play.
There really is a thriving community of long-time players who love to help newbies, but that only helps those of us who push past our inherent prejudices to give them a chance to do so.
The game needs more people joining than leaving, and right now there's nothing to hook them.

Personally I think the game really, really needs some PvE content. Less skilled people can sharpen their teeth with that, and it will get them hooked in a way that being totally out of their league constantly against other players won't. Then they'll eventually want to jump into the deep end.
It doesn't need to be in-depth, just copying and pasting a little old MechWarrior content into the new engine, or adding the option to queue against an AI team for significantly reduced rewards. Then put in place daily limits for PvE to limit grinding and some daily achievements/quests, like mobile games do, and you're all set.
A whole bunch of people will look twice at the game who would (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ after the first couple of matches in the current state.
And with more newbies it gets easier for newbies to win, because they're not matched with higher tier players as often. That makes them have more fun, which makes them stick around longer, which makes them pay more money, and get better skilled, and eventually join in with factions and units and all that.


I know I'm off topic, I just really love MechWarrior and I hate seeing so many blunders and missed opportunities that keep this game from really catching on
It's like the company is led by engineers and programmers who make decisions that are logical and rational to them, but in practice make the entire thing ridiculously complicated and obtuse.
And they only seem to listen to feedback from long-term, hardcore players. The problem is that there are literally billions more people who don't play the game than who do. That's far more money waiting for the game than the couple thousand loyal, hardcore players will provide over its lifetime.

Have you really looked at the mech store recently? Or the loadout screen? Through the eyes of a newbie it's an impenetrable wall of stats that makes zero sense. It really wouldn't be hard to make a simplified version that abstracts the numbers and gives dumbed-down tooltips, then have an advanced view for us to use, and not lose any of the depth.

I can sperg-out with the best of them, but I'm also a technical writer. So most of my day is spent trying to figure out how to dumb things down enough that normal people can make sense of it, yet still be useful. It's really not impossible to make vast improvements to readability without compromising the depth and detail.
Right now it's what we call "aggressively user-unfriendly", and is what happens when engineers are in charge of UI design.

...

Where was I... Oh, yeah. Matchmaking.
Just separate the concepts of "unit" and "group" play (so that units have nothing to do with it), and add a toggle for solo players to choose whether they want to be matched with groups or not.

Edited by Elendil, 26 April 2016 - 05:17 PM.

[Malleus011]

MrKvola, on 26 April 2016 - 02:12 PM, said:

The unit I am in has over 350 members. We have whole REGIMENTS of casual players. The only requirement so far was to log in to the unit webpage at least once in 3 months. A real commitment right there. (Although I have to admit that this was shortened to 1 month due to the mistaken PGI policy of reducing unit sizes for all the wrong reasons). We have members that were discharged for being AWOL. A lot come back once their situation changes, often after many months, and are welcomed. It does not matter what happens, it is just a game. And if life happens to get to you, it takes precedence.

Yep, I was in Hrunting's 10th (the Black Watch) for a long time. Just couldn't make the practice times and manage to regularly login to TS. Being out of the country for six weeks at a time can interfere with your gaming.

The Rangers are an *awesome* unit, no question, and I wish them the best. But I couldn't manage to keep up with their modest and reasonable requirements. But I'd still like to be able to play CW on those occasions when I can play, and be able to contribute at least a little to whatever faction I'm supporting. Sad to see that option being taken away.

[Fastwind]

Livewyr, on 26 April 2016 - 04:09 PM, said:

Insults. Interesting. Those make the best arguments.

Do me a favor and take your virtual social justice campaign to any other game with advancement/real money involved.
Demand fair involvement for everyone involved, regardless of their contribution, involvement, or amount of playing.

I would especially like to see you download and install an MMO and then rage on the forums about how they won't make a 1man end game boss for you to tackle so you can get the end game rewards too. (Or how you can't take your level 1 into the end game raid because the raiders won't let you.)

Those people are so unfair and elitist.

Ok i give it one last try i doubt you gona understand it but i kinda have to
This game used to have a far bigger playerbase like 1,5-2years ago
I have hundreds of people on my friendlist,back than whenever i came online there were atleast 20+ playing at any given time
Now its a lot when there are 5 during primetimes
Pretty much all of the best players that are still playing only play LEAGUE matches no CW no PUG and there are very few of em left
The playerbase was so big because there was a shitload of solo players,all gone
The game easily lost three quarters of its playerbase over the last 2 years,and it continues losing
They changed the matchmaker because there weren't enough players to fill matchers in under 5+min. queue time
If they keep doing the **** you solo player thing,the game keeps dieing
Hf playing your CW matches against the 2 same units over and over,oh and waiting to get matches against them every 4 hours

[Tarl Cabot]

Quote

Where was I... Oh, yeah. Matchmaking.
Just separate the concepts of "unit" and "group" play (so that units have nothing to do with it), and add a toggle for solo players to choose whether they want to be matched with groups or not.

That would only really work if drops were not restricted to only one planet but a set range of planets, with the game deciding which planet gets the actual combat drop.

But what would you consider a 'solo' player? A unit member dropping by himself or a faction member not in a unit? Think about how that can be abused if a solo players is simply a player not dropping as part of an already created co-op unit (people in different units/no units) or unit drop. Cause you could have 7 players on teamspeak or/and from the same unit who have not formed up a drop unit drop in the same planet.

[AnimeFreak40K]

Okay, look... I threw some spare change at this when it first started and I think it bears mentioning again...

The crux of the matter is that there was a LOT of complaining since CW Beta1 about Units vs. PUGs/Solos...on both sides. It only got more vocal/noticeable with the Steam release; Units were complaining about PUGs and Solos, and hated having to fight against them (no challenge) and really didn't want them on their team...unless they were a team-player. PUGs/Solos *hated* facing off against units because, well, it pretty much meant that they were going to lose at least 90% of the time...and while eating a loss here and there was tolerated and even expected, it gets really old really quick when you wait 10+ minutes for a match only to get your teeth brutally kicked in 3-5 times a night.

This all being said, the whole idea of splitting the queues between Solos and Units was one that was worth mentioning (also, splitting Mercs from Loyalists).

Unfortunately, the buildup and subsequent execution of the queue splitting was one that was, if you think about it in hindsight, doomed to failure in a manner that was not predicted (or at least not predicted to the best of my knowledge) for the following reasons:
- Forced "Career Paths", while a really cool idea, threw up a massive wall between people casuals and more serious players. I mean, the paths dictate that either you're a Loyalist or a Merc...and you can only be a Merc if you join (or create) a unit. Going Loyalist implies a level of commitment that the player may not want to make (especially if they're only in it for the Mech Bays) and going Merc means that you don't earn LP, but Rep Points which is a totally different thing...and removes the whole reason to move to other factions. And if you don't fit into the Solo Loyalist, Unit Loyalist or Merc Unit, then you're a Freelancer and you can expect to rarely (if ever) see a Call to Arms on anything other than a Scouting Mission.
Again, a great idea, but it easily turns off casuals and makes it quite clear that they're not welcome.

- People got around some of the perceived problems of splitting the queue by 1-person units. This (most likely) served as a means to continue to get quick matches (Unit queue us likely more active than Solo queue) and, more importantly, allowed them to hide the fact that they are a Solo/PUG because now they have a Unit Tag. Which means for them, nothing has changed except that they will always be facing off against an organized team in some capacity. Unfortunately, this drained the Solo Queue.

- Scouting (either as a Unit or a Solo/Freelancer) is also very attractive because it's fast, mission/objective oriented and has some larger effect on the game as a whole (plus, it's new and shiny). This alone has done a pretty good job of draining the Solo queue because of the limited manpower required to get a match going.

All of these things combined pretty much made sure that the Solo Queue would not survive.


Now, I guess it could be argued that this was done on purpose; PGI had been warned by a lot of people that splitting the queues was a *really* bad idea. PGI was really reluctant to even consider splitting the queues at all (citing low population for the mode overall) and had the general stance that FW is for units only.

Frankly, they way I see it at this point is that the overall community was quite vocal about what they wanted:
- Loyalists dictate map progression (as opposed to large Merc units)
- Solos/PUGs split from Units/Groups
- Keep the casuals out

...and PGI delivered.

Now, the more I think about it, the more I am starting to think that PGI went and did this to pretty much prove their point that splitting the queues is bad and shouldn't have been done while at the same time giving people what they asked for.

[Randy Poffo]

AnimeFreak40K, on 26 April 2016 - 07:12 PM, said:

Frankly, they way I see it at this point is that the overall community was quite vocal about what they wanted:
- Loyalists dictate map progression (as opposed to large Merc units)
- Solos/PUGs split from Units/Groups
- Keep the casuals out

...and PGI delivered.

Now, the more I think about it, the more I am starting to think that PGI went and did this to pretty much prove their point that splitting the queues is bad and shouldn't have been done while at the same time giving people what they asked for.

Maybe. Although do they really want the casuals out? At least some don't, because I know there are units that deliberately avoid other units and treated CW in phase 2 as an exercise in seal-clubbing. Those people do not want their prey removed from the food chain.

But suppose the goal is to get the casuals out of the game mode. I know some people do, and at least one of them has been pretty vocal in this thread. OK, well and good. So how does this work as an economic model, and where is the income supposed to come from? Is the idea that the minority of CW players is just going to spend a *lot* of money per person? Or is the idea that CW players will suck up an increasing share of the dev investment while the filthy casuals - who aren't supposed to play it - pick up the tab? Or maybe the idea is to just give up on CW as a mode entirely?

[Cy Mitchell]

Tarl Cabot, on 26 April 2016 - 07:06 PM, said:

That would only really work if drops were not restricted to only one planet but a set range of planets, with the game deciding which planet gets the actual combat drop.

But what would you consider a 'solo' player? A unit member dropping by himself or a faction member not in a unit? Think about how that can be abused if a solo players is simply a player not dropping as part of an already created co-op unit (people in different units/no units) or unit drop. Cause you could have 7 players on teamspeak or/and from the same unit who have not formed up a drop unit drop in the same planet.

The argument about synch dropping team members (or friends on TS) always comes up with people arguing against the solo queue but how is the outcome of this worse than solos facing 6-12 man units on a regular basis in the combined queue?

There should be a unit queue and a solos queue where untagged or no more than two tagged players from the same unit can drop together. It is simple as that. No need for all the complicated stuff that PGI tried to inject that actually ended up discouraging solo FW team play. And the argument that PUGs do not want to play as a team is misguided too. Many of them do play as a team but do not want to be part of a unit.

[AnimeFreak40K]

Randy Poffo, on 26 April 2016 - 07:44 PM, said:

Maybe. Although do they really want the casuals out? At least some don't, because I know there are units that deliberately avoid other units and treated CW in phase 2 as an exercise in seal-clubbing. Those people do not want their prey removed from the food chain.

But suppose the goal is to get the casuals out of the game mode. I know some people do, and at least one of them has been pretty vocal in this thread. OK, well and good. So how does this work as an economic model, and where is the income supposed to come from? Is the idea that the minority of CW players is just going to spend a *lot* of money per person? Or is the idea that CW players will suck up an increasing share of the dev investment while the filthy casuals - who aren't supposed to play it - pick up the tab? Or maybe the idea is to just give up on CW as a mode entirely?

Russ has stated multiple times (in several different ways) that Community Warfare/Faction Warfare/Faction Play are designed for Units. Various units of varying skill-level and level of activity in CW have voiced their concerns as well (as you mentioned). And, to be fair, that was also the intent of the whole thing from Day 1.

With regard to economics, it's people that actually buy stuff (mechs, cockpit items, MC, etc.) with real money that keep things going and those things are agnostic to FW. I mean, people who spend real money on this game do so for things that have value both in FW and in QP, so it really doesn't matter. Heck, I would argue that because FW players tend to be more experienced and such, they're probably not throwing much in the way of money at PGI anyway. So regarding the idea of getting more 'bang for the buck', that's a matter that revolves entirely on population...and that is just one that can't be solved because MWO always had a small population simply because it's a game based on a very niche market.

[Silra]

So here is an idea...

How about for a couple weeks we remove ALL group queues.

The game makes it a team game, when you join a queue you are assigned into a team. Why do we need to join units when games are 12v12 (and now 4v4) TEAM matches already?

Just no, remove Units and group queues entirely, make everyone choose a faction OR mercenary career and be done with it.

"But I can't play with my friends and seal club newbs!"

Git Gud and sync drop!