59 replies to this topic

[TercieI]

Silra, on 26 April 2016 - 11:34 PM, said:

Never put XL engine on IS mech.

Let the clanners run their XLs, you're Inner Sphere, so stick to the STD engines.

That's just silly. The current high alpha, low TTK meta means XLs are a near requirement on most chassis (and certainly more than ever before).

Edited by TercieI, 27 April 2016 - 04:07 AM.

[4rcs1ne]

Silra, on 26 April 2016 - 11:34 PM, said:

Never put XL engine on IS mech.

Let the clanners run their XLs, you're Inner Sphere, so stick to the STD engines.

Yeah you should totally run STD's on all IS mechs, even lights too.

[Widowmaker1981]

Silra, on 26 April 2016 - 11:34 PM, said:

Never put XL engine on IS mech.

Let the clanners run their XLs, you're Inner Sphere, so stick to the STD engines.

Wrong.

Put an XL engine in almost every mech.. Only ones i would exclude are Stalkers and Atlases, and a few others are arguable.

An XL will allow you to contribute far more than a STD up until the point that your ST goes, and its actually pretty rare for a mech to contribute more than another 50-100 dmg once its lost a ST and had its firepower halved.

This is especially applicable in ladder tournaments where only your best games count - its literal idiocy to use a STD engine build for those (except the stalker, because that actually gains nothing from using an XL due to its low engine cap and lack of Ballisitic mounts. NEVER EVER XL Stalker)

[TercieI]

Widowmaker1981, on 27 April 2016 - 06:06 AM, said:

Wrong.

Put an XL engine in almost every mech.. Only ones i would exclude are Stalkers and Atlases, and a few others are arguable.

An XL will allow you to contribute far more than a STD up until the point that your ST goes, and its actually pretty rare for a mech to contribute more than another 50-100 dmg once its lost a ST and had its firepower halved.

This is especially applicable in ladder tournaments where only your best games count - its literal idiocy to use a STD engine build for those (except the stalker, because that actually gains nothing from using an XL due to its low engine cap and lack of Ballisitic mounts. NEVER EVER XL Stalker)

I'd add the MAD to that list in most cases. Same reasons as the STK, basically. But other than that, yeah, XL or go home.

Edited by TercieI, 27 April 2016 - 06:17 AM.

[Silra]

TercieI, on 27 April 2016 - 04:06 AM, said:

That's just silly. The current high alpha, low TTK meta means XLs are a near requirement on most chassis (and certainly more than ever before).

No they aren't.

I am doing just fine, no XLs on here.

Different playstyles and all that.

Widowmaker1981, on 27 April 2016 - 06:06 AM, said:

Wrong.

Different opinions, different play styles.

Edited by Silra, 27 April 2016 - 06:19 AM.

[Escef]

TercieI, on 27 April 2016 - 06:17 AM, said:

I'd add the MAD to that list in most cases. Same reasons as the STK, basically. But other than that, yeah, XL or go home.

I've had success with 350+ rated XLs in Marauders. The speed offsets the vulnerability. Still, if you can't get at least a 350XL into your Marauder build, just don't bother with an XL at all. Below 350 the speed/payload/durability mix is not in your favor.

[TercieI]

Escef, on 27 April 2016 - 06:23 AM, said:

I've had success with 350+ rated XLs in Marauders. The speed offsets the vulnerability. Still, if you can't get at least a 350XL into your Marauder build, just don't bother with an XL at all. Below 350 the speed/payload/durability mix is not in your favor.

Yeah, I can kinda see that. I haven't got tons of seat time in them, but against them, they ST so, so easy, but die so, so hard that the XL seems like it gives up a big advantage a la Stalkers. Also kinda enjoy the oddity that they can tank hard and keep punching even when outgunned, they feel kinda old school, remind me of how fatties used to play.

Silra, on 27 April 2016 - 06:18 AM, said:

No they aren't.

I am doing just fine, no XLs on here.

Different playstyles and all that.

Mostly or exclusively solo player?

[sycocys]

Widowmaker1981, on 27 April 2016 - 06:06 AM, said:

Put an XL engine in almost every mech.. Only ones i would exclude are Stalkers

True story.

[Silra]

TercieI, on 27 April 2016 - 06:29 AM, said:

Mostly or exclusively solo player?

Right now? Yes.

I have played with a unit for quite a long time though.

The thing is... someone asks on the forum whether to put an XL engine on a mech.

Just like you can give your opinion on the matter, I can give mine.... mine just happens to be different from the majority who comment here is all.

Edited by Silra, 27 April 2016 - 07:01 AM.

[TercieI]

Silra, on 27 April 2016 - 06:44 AM, said:

Right now? Yes.

I do have a whole lot of LP gained from CW with a unit from before though.

CW is an entirely different game, mechs should be built differently for it (assuming you're try-harding it, which I pretty much don't unless going 1-2 players)

In high level group/comp, STD engines won't save you these days, you'll just be undergunned. Almost no meta builds use STDs as a result. It's weird and it's different, but it's just fact now. Solo queue, heck, I run all sorts of silly stuff in solo queue, that proves nothing.

Edited by TercieI, 27 April 2016 - 06:51 AM.

[Silra]

TercieI, on 27 April 2016 - 06:48 AM, said:

In high level group/comp, STD engines won't save you these days, you'll just be undergunned. Almost no meta builds use STDs as a result. It's weird and it's different, but it's just fact now. Solo queue, heck, I run all sorts of silly stuff in solo queue, that proves nothing.

And that's the thing isn't it... I didn't see anything asking about comp or tournaments in the OP, just a question if XL engines are viable.

We all have different preferences and in all honesty people never find theirs if they don't try things out for themselves either. It is a bit of a shame one often enough just sees posts which amount to "this is the only course of action for success" on the forums.

You did just say you like to run all sorts of things in solo queue yourself after all.

[TercieI]

Silra, on 27 April 2016 - 07:04 AM, said:

And that's the thing isn't it... I didn't see anything asking about comp or tournaments in the OP, just a question if XL engines are viable.

We all have different preferences and in all honesty people never find theirs if they don't try things out for themselves either. It is a bit of a shame one often enough just sees posts which amount to "this is the only course of action for success" on the forums.

You did just say you like to run all sorts of things in solo queue yourself after all.

Well, yeah, I level all the things and experiment. And, to be frank, my skill* allows me to get away with some silliness along the way, especially in my specialties.

But viability is a question of "can I beat really good players in really tuned mechs with this?" And for that, you're looking at XLing virtually everything these days.

*I'm not the best player, but I am very good and play in very high level comp/team environment

[Silra]

TercieI, on 27 April 2016 - 07:09 AM, said:

Well, yeah, I level all the things and experiment. And, to be frank, my skill* allows me to get away with some silliness along the way, especially in my specialties.

But viability is a question of "can I beat really good players in really tuned mechs with this?" And for that, you're looking at XLing virtually everything these days.

*I'm not the best player, but I am very good and play in very high level comp/team environment

To you that is the definition of viability and that's all fine with me, it's the best when people get conflicting advice after all. I don't play comp, I used to play bunch of CW and group queue and make videos for this game... don't make videos anymore, play more casually, and so to me STD engines are very viable.

Another reason I personally suggest STD engines to people who ask is because they're a cheaper way to try out a mech, to figure if that particular mech is even something you want to play in the long run.

If the OP got his answer from all this, then that's a good thing in the end.

[TercieI]

Silra, on 27 April 2016 - 07:27 AM, said:

If the OP got his answer from all this, then that's a good thing in the end.

Can agree with that, anyway.

[mogs01gt]

Silra, on 26 April 2016 - 11:34 PM, said:

Never put XL engine on IS mech.
Let the clanners run their XLs, you're Inner Sphere, so stick to the STD engines.

Why would you troll people with this garbage??

[DerMaulwurf]

TercieI, on 27 April 2016 - 06:48 AM, said:

CW is an entirely different game, mechs should be built differently for it (assuming you're try-harding it, which I pretty much don't unless going 1-2 players)

In high level group/comp, STD engines won't save you these days, you'll just be undergunned. Almost no meta builds use STDs as a result. It's weird and it's different, but it's just fact now. Solo queue, heck, I run all sorts of silly stuff in solo queue, that proves nothing.

How many people ever participate in high level comp play? I would argue that it is a small minority and it shouldn't be the standard to which everything is held.

Of course I'm not trying to claim that high-level play doesn't reveal which builds are the best. I'm saying that we're dealing with differences that are going to be irrelevant in the game that the vast majority of MWO players actually see.

Silra, on 27 April 2016 - 07:04 AM, said:

And that's the thing isn't it... I didn't see anything asking about comp or tournaments in the OP, just a question if XL engines are viable.

We all have different preferences and in all honesty people never find theirs if they don't try things out for themselves either. It is a bit of a shame one often enough just sees posts which amount to "this is the only course of action for success" on the forums.

You did just say you like to run all sorts of things in solo queue yourself after all.

I tried things and found that for myself the contribution after losing a ST in a STD engine mech was always pretty limited. Making the XL engine a viable trade-off between the impact you gain before your ST blows off, against what you could have done afterwards. Especially if use the XL engine to gain speed.

Of course there are exceptions: the Stalker has its syndrome named for a very good reason and cannot really gain enough speed to make the XL good, the Marauder can shield very well with its left side and it's mobility is quirked to a degree where you don't really need an engine much larger than STD300 and a few other mechs that can contribute well after losing an ST.

But in general the XL engine is at the very least a viable option. Making the statement: "Never put XL engine on IS mech." pretty nonsensical. It's also pretty weird to make such a strong statement and then complain about people who espouse 'the one true way™'.

[Silra]

mogs01gt, on 27 April 2016 - 07:53 AM, said:

Why would you troll people with this garbage??

Because we all have our own preferences and opinions on things. If yours is different, you're entirely welcome to express it.

DerMaulwurf, on 27 April 2016 - 08:01 AM, said:

Making the statement: "Never put XL engine on IS mech." pretty nonsensical. It's also pretty weird to make such a strong statement and then complain about people who espouse 'the one true way™'.

I should have been clearer that it was a jab at all the people who say the exact opposite. As in "put XL and screw everyone who says anything else" which is how it comes out for the most part.

I do not use XL engines on my IS mechs, aside of light mechs, and even there it is enjoyable challenge to put a STD engine on a light and see how well you can do. That's just how things go for me.

Edited by Silra, 27 April 2016 - 08:10 AM.

[mogs01gt]

Silra, on 27 April 2016 - 08:06 AM, said:

Because we all have our own preferences and opinions on things. If yours is different, you're entirely welcome to express it.

This isnt a preference or opinion, its a answer to a question with a right or wrong answer. You run XLs on most IS mechs other than a specific few for specific reasons. The opinion is if you do not believe the answer but it still makes your opinion wrong.

The only std engine I run is on my YLW specifically because it has 3 hardpoints.

Edited by mogs01gt, 27 April 2016 - 12:29 PM.

[Revis Volek]

Silra, on 26 April 2016 - 11:34 PM, said:

Never put XL engine on IS mech.

Let the clanners run their XLs, you're Inner Sphere, so stick to the STD engines.

Worst advice ever.....

Please dont listen to this person.

[TercieI]

DerMaulwurf, on 27 April 2016 - 08:01 AM, said:

How many people ever participate in high level comp play? I would argue that it is a small minority and it shouldn't be the standard to which everything is held.

You're probably right, but I'm not content with "works against bad players or bad builds." Viability should include anything you might face. For me, that includes fighting the best players and teams in the game while having to carry lesser players, so I'm looking for as-good-as-can-be. Maybe it's the play-to-win approach bleeding through, but when one starts discussing viability, I don't see any other standard that you can really say makes sense, since they all boil down to "good, except..." where I'm looking for "good regardless."

Edited by TercieI, 27 April 2016 - 10:44 AM.