24 replies to this topic

[Rocket2Uranus]

I think there needs to be a reward for ECM mechs who offer support to their teammates in their time of need (aka being shot at by 100s of missiles).

I think if a lock on is broken by ECM, the pilot providing the ECM should be rewarded.

Also AMS should also give rewards for destroying Missiles.

[Roadkill]

Yep.

Seems like the latter would be really easy to implement, too, at some basic level. Reward for damage prevented. It'd probably need to be a higher reward than we get for damage dealt, but it seems like the implementation should be pretty simple.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Even if it was only 2 cbills per missle, that would rack up quick

[TercieI]

Rocket2Uranus, on 26 April 2016 - 10:53 AM, said:

I think there needs to be a reward for ECM mechs who offer support to their teammates in their time of need (aka being shot at by 100s of missiles).

I think if a lock on is broken by ECM, the pilot providing the ECM should be rewarded.

Also AMS should also give rewards for destroying Missiles.

Equip things less useful than guns and do things other than kill the enemy for rewards!

Bad idea. You are literally suggesting incentivizing playing in suboptimal ways with suboptimal mechs.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

TercieI, on 26 April 2016 - 11:00 AM, said:

Equip things less useful than guns and do things other than kill the enemy for rewards!

Bad idea. You are literally suggesting incentivizing playing in suboptimal ways with suboptimal mechs.

^^ I love killing guys like this with flamers / MGs / Lbx / AC2 / LRM20 / etc

Edited by Ex Atlas Overlord, 26 April 2016 - 11:10 AM.

[TercieI]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 26 April 2016 - 11:10 AM, said:

^^ I love killing guys like this with flamers / MGs / Lbx / AC2 / LRM20 / etc

LOL. K. That comes up a lot.

[Astrocanis]

TercieI, on 26 April 2016 - 11:00 AM, said:

Equip things less useful than guns and do things other than kill the enemy for rewards!

Bad idea. You are literally suggesting incentivizing playing in suboptimal ways with suboptimal mechs.

Thought this was a team game. Incentivizing team play is bad?

I run my 3ams mechs a ton. And every time I do, the fatties start playing my song. We dance. Because they LOVE the umbrella. And I get diddly from it other than a giggly warm feeling deep in my toes.

[Jzaltheral]

Just make LRMs do 15 points of damage per missile. Everyone will bring AMS then. /sarcasm

In all due seriousness, the support roles in this game (and in many others) are seriously undervalued, and under-rewarded. Bring moar gunz is great, assuming you can actually see the people you're trying to kill. Sometimes being able to prevent damage is a better strategy, because it lets you stay in the fight longer.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

TercieI, on 26 April 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:

LOL. K. That comes up a lot.

I agree, it sure is LOL hearing people talk like the mech build matters

[Richard Hazen]

I'd love to play a pure support mech if it actually paid to do so.

[TercieI]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 26 April 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

I agree, it sure is LOL hearing people talk like the mech build matters

Oh, you're an Ordellus alt. That fits. LOL.

Astrocanis, on 26 April 2016 - 11:13 AM, said:

Thought this was a team game. Incentivizing team play is bad?

I run my 3ams mechs a ton. And every time I do, the fatties start playing my song. We dance. Because they LOVE the umbrella. And I get diddly from it other than a giggly warm feeling deep in my toes.

Team play = what wins matches. What wins matches = killing enemy mechs. Good teams/players do not use AMS because it's not useful and they take ECM as only one small factor into consideration and rarely if ever use it for "team shielding." Support mechs are unknown among good teams/players because effective combat mechs are always better. So, yeah, to support my team, I kill the enemy. Incentivizing suboptimal behavior promotes bad gameplay and is thus bad for the game. This bad idea just keeps coming up, though.

[Corrado]

Rocket2Uranus, on 26 April 2016 - 10:53 AM, said:

I think there needs to be a reward for ECM mechs who offer support to their teammates in their time of need (aka being shot at by 100s of missiles).

I think if a lock on is broken by ECM, the pilot providing the ECM should be rewarded.

Also AMS should also give rewards for destroying Missiles.

something like 15 cbills per destroyed missile (15-20k cbills for 2000 ams... 20k with ams module)

[Khobai]

LRMs need a huge buff for ECM/AMS support mechs to actually have a role.

[Corrado]

Khobai, on 26 April 2016 - 12:25 PM, said:

LRMs need a huge buff for ECM/AMS support mechs to actually have a role.

LRM buff is polar highlands :|

oh and TAG NARC does actually have rewards so....

Edited by Corrado, 26 April 2016 - 12:32 PM.

[SteelBruiser]

TercieI, on 26 April 2016 - 11:00 AM, said:

Equip things less useful than guns and do things other than kill the enemy for rewards!

Bad idea. You are literally suggesting incentivizing playing in suboptimal ways with suboptimal mechs.

This is too funny. In another thread folks are saying that a mech with ECM is obligated to stay and provide coverage for the team. Here they're saying there is no real need for such extraneous equipment, all your tonnage should be dedicated to shooting other mechs. It's amazing how many ways of "How we're supposed to play" there are. It usually comes down to, "for the good of the team you should play my way." So game politics does mimic real world.

Now if I was part of an official team, and wanted to stay part of that team, I would play by their rules. Mainly because each team member is usually assigned specific roles and brings a mech loaded for those roles which support the overall build of the team. But in quick play with mostly noobies, me included, that doesn't always work because everyone, despite their build, is dropped into a map to adapt and win as best they can with the given situation. I don't do well with the "Don't use this build because it's not the norm." I'm the guy who will run it and several iterations of it until I figure out how to make it work or I finally determine you knew what you were talking about. When I first started I was told to never use missiles, missiles are bad. Today, everyone is running missiles as their primaries. I nearly cried when I saw a KGC go down because he ran out of missiles...that was all he brought to battle...such a sad sight. I didn't chide or belittle him...it was his build and he learned a lesson...probably to drop more heatsinks to bring more missiles...not what I'd do but who knows. Anyway, the norm keeps changing because folks find ways to eventually beat the current norm. That's the nature of war. You don't just keep throwing rocks when the enemy has adopted arrows. It's that simple.

Edited by SteelBruiser, 26 April 2016 - 12:46 PM.

[TercieI]

SteelBruiser, on 26 April 2016 - 12:43 PM, said:

This is too funny. In another thread folks are saying that a mech with ECM is obligated to stay and provide coverage for the team. Here they're saying there is no real need for such extraneous equipment, all your tonnage should be dedicated to shooting other mechs. It's amazing how many ways of "How we're supposed to play" there are. It usually comes down to, "for the good of the team you should play my way." So game politics does mimic real world.

Foruming 101: Know Who's Talking. Trust me. Top tier teams and players do not worry about anything besides efficiently killing the enemy because that's what wins.

[Thunder Child]

The problem as it stands, is that Killing Mechs is the best way to win. Whether it's Invasion, Conquest, Domination, or Assault, it's ALL just Skirmish.

So, in that regard, Terciel is right. Why take superfluous equipment, when more guns would be more beneficial.

The only way support roles will flourish, is if we have game types that encourage them. But this won't happen until we get maps and multi-mission game types that encourage teams to work as Lances to achieve multiple (and not necessarily all Combat) roles at the same time.

[TercieI]

Thunder Child, on 26 April 2016 - 01:18 PM, said:

The problem as it stands, is that Killing Mechs is the best way to win. Whether it's Invasion, Conquest, Domination, or Assault, it's ALL just Skirmish.

So, in that regard, Terciel is right. Why take superfluous equipment, when more guns would be more beneficial.

The only way support roles will flourish, is if we have game types that encourage them. But this won't happen until we get maps and multi-mission game types that encourage teams to work as Lances to achieve multiple (and not necessarily all Combat) roles at the same time.

For the record, I would love that, but that's not the game we have and pretending it is isn't helpful.

[Khobai]

Quote

LRM buff is polar highlands

not really. LRMs are supposed to be LONG RANGE missiles

they should be competing at the same ranges as Gauss, ERPPCs, and ERLL.... instead theyre limited to like 500-600m ranges to be effective because anything past that is easily dodged.

LRMs need a massive speed buff to be more effective at long range. Or at the very least LRMs should start out slow and gradually accelerate upto a much higher top speed.

ECM also needs to not grant stealth AT ALL. it doesnt in tabletop it shouldnt in MWO. The only effect ECM should have on missiles is double lockon time.

Indirect LRMs probably need to be made less accurate too if you increase their speed and remove ECM stealth. Indirect LRMs should only be accurate if the target has TAG or NARC on it.

Artemis needs a buff as well. Artemis should increase missile crit chance in the same way that targeting computers increase beam/projectile crit chance.

Like I said before, LRMs need to be fixed before triple AMS Kitfox can become a viable support mech.

Edited by Khobai, 26 April 2016 - 02:00 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

We already get a bonus for sticking close to your lance mates, so it should be something similar, IMO. In particular, disrupting an enemy missile lock on a teammate by covering them with ECM should give you a good reward. Seems like that would be easy to code.