141 replies to this topic

[Amsro]

Haven't noticed any difference to speak about.

[STEF_]

Jazzbandit1313, on 26 April 2016 - 09:56 PM, said:

I assure you that most, say at least 90% of pushes in tier two end in disaster or severe loss in armor and teammates before you can ever reach the enemy or get in range, thanks to the balance that favors long ranged weapons and map design, at least some of the time.

I believe you, but not because of weapon unbalance.
It's because tier 2 have to do that along tier 4 guys (at least in solo que), and that's the reason why in solo que I bring gauss and lezors.

It's easier to coordinate the push dropping group que, with 4-5 teamates you trust and know how to play in brawl-mode engaged.

edit: I explain better: while doing the gauss and lezors thing U can do it all alone, it requires positioning and good aiming, the brawl thing you MUST have teamates. U cannot go there and brawl all alone.
That's why going brawl in solo que is a nonsense.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 26 April 2016 - 10:14 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

What the hell is this thread about?

"Playing against good players is no fun because they kill me."

This is not a Single Player Campaign where you get to goof around and slaughter inferior enemies by the numbers. Single Player games are like that. A Tiered Player-vs-Player game should be matching you against tougher opponents as youngain experience in order to provide everyone around you with an overall-averaged fair fight.

[demoyn]

Jazzbandit1313, on 26 April 2016 - 08:42 PM, said:

The more competitive the games get due to the tier system, the more meta people will be loading their mechs with (I.E. gauss, erll, erppc, lpl, lrm)...

The second you said that LRM was meta was the second we understood why you're not tier 1 yet. Sure, maybe you are getting BETTER, but that obviously doesn't mean that you've gotten GOOD.

[Jazzbandit1313]

demoyn, on 26 April 2016 - 10:13 PM, said:

The second you said that LRM was meta was the second we understood why you're not tier 1 yet. Sure, maybe you are getting BETTER, but that obviously doesn't mean that you've gotten GOOD.

Lrms, when used properly, are just as effective as gauss or lasers, at least in my experience.

Also I think it's quite unfair to judge my skill based on what weapons I think are good or not, no?

Prosperity Park, on 26 April 2016 - 10:11 PM, said:

What the hell is this thread about?

"Playing against good players is no fun because they kill me."

This is not a Single Player Campaign where you get to goof around and slaughter inferior enemies by the numbers. Single Player games are like that. A Tiered Player-vs-Player game should be matching you against tougher opponents as youngain experience in order to provide everyone around you with an overall-averaged fair fight.

I'll spare you the click and copy a few of my original points that outline my argument.

No, I'm not complaining that I'm having no fun because of other players as individuals, I'm complaining that I'm having less fun because of the playstyle and builds that are encouraged by the tier system in order to win.
------
My point isn't "Wah Wah I wanna be tier 1 PGI change the game for me", it's "I'm having a kinda crappy experience and I think it has mostly to do with the tier system and the ways in which it brings out the most meta/frustrating parts of the game to play against

I would gladly manually lower myself to tier 3 or 4 to experience more brawls and balanced, mixed-loadout gameplay, because that's what made me fall in love with this game.

Edited by Jazzbandit1313, 26 April 2016 - 10:21 PM.

[Navid A1]

its absolutely impossible not to reach tier 1 max... no matter the skill, no matter the build.
you just have to always be in your carry pants!... that is how it works in puglands.
If you can not wreck people in your close range brawler (in any given case)... there is a good chance that you can't do anything good with a meta vomit build either!

And don't think for a second that Tier 1 matches are any better. In Tier 1 you just have to carry harder and suffer more by spectating scrubs trying to shoot their LRM20s!... or miss 90% of their shots at point blank.

Edited by Navid A1, 26 April 2016 - 10:28 PM.

[Appogee]

Jazzbandit1313, on 26 April 2016 - 08:42 PM, said:

Something else to note, and I think anyone in low-mid tier two will agree, is that the builds being run and the play-style being used is utter meta crap and it pisses the living hell out of me.

So, you don't like how other people play. Ok.

Jazzbandit1313, on 26 April 2016 - 08:42 PM, said:

In 13/15 of my matches tonight, I had at least 30-40% or more of my armor stripped off from 600M out or further.

So, you're not adapting to how other people play. Ok.

Jazzbandit1313, on 26 April 2016 - 08:42 PM, said:

How do you think a new player feels, peeking out from a corner to fire at the enemy and getting 25% of his armor bursted off before he can even begin backing his mech up?

New players may not experience it much, because due to the same Tier system that you're upset about, they're not always facing experienced players like you and the meta players you are complaining about.

Jazzbandit1313, on 26 April 2016 - 08:42 PM, said:

Hell, even if you don't re-balance anything PGI, at least give me the god damn option to lower my tier.

So you want to compete against less experienced players.

Jazzbandit1313, on 26 April 2016 - 08:42 PM, said:

Thoughts?

1. You want to play your own sub-optimal way, so you don't need to adapt to playing against against higher experienced players who have adapted.

2. Your proposed solution is to be allowed to go play less experienced players, where your sub-optimal playstyle and build style will win you more matches.

3. No. That wouldn't be fair to less experienced players. There are private lobbies available for you to host matches with different build rules and any other kind of playstyle you personally prefer. There are also the Stock Mech Monday comps.


Incidentally, I brawled my way from Tier 2 to Tier 1, generally from a range of 400m or less, and frequently using unfashionable weapons like C-UACs. So...


4. It is entirely possible to adapt to, counter and succeed against the meta, without adopting it.

Edited by Appogee, 26 April 2016 - 10:37 PM.

[El Bandito]

Just find a unit and play in group queue where teammates are more responsive, OP. Clearly solo-q is not for you. Don't be surprised though, when your opponents in group-q proves to be even tougher competition.

[Scout Derek]

I'm in tier 2 and I have to say....

things get lopsided or roflstomp real quick sometimes, per say in the group que we get tier 4s and a few tier 1s that aren't that good vs tier 1s and and tier 3s coming at us... something along those lines.

to put it short, some matches get way too chaotic or one sided at times. least that's my take on it.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Scout Derek, on 26 April 2016 - 10:52 PM, said:

I'm in tier 2 and I have to say....

things get lopsided or roflstomp real quick sometimes, per say in the group que we get tier 4s and a few tier 1s that aren't that good vs tier 1s and and tier 3s coming at us... something along those lines.

to put it short, some matches get way too chaotic or one sided at times. least that's my take on it.

I still wanna be able to go back to tier 5 so Im not getting stomped by tier 2s and 1s nut not having to lose purposefully a thousand times in a row and get banned.

[Y E O N N E]

Stefka Kerensky, on 26 April 2016 - 09:52 PM, said:

I'm a brawler 'cause I love to go close and personal, and smash faces.

It requires positioning and coordination, that's why I avoid solo que (if I drop solo, then I know I have to bring gauss and lezors.....because I know teamates, prolly tier 3, never want to move their a$$es).

PPCs. PPCs are awesome fun in solo, especially on the Shadow Cat. Only the worst of the worst randoms die so fast that you don't get enough of a screen to do work.

[Zolaz]

Here let me help you out.

http://metamechs.com/

[TheCharlatan]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

On a more serious note: yeah huge alphas at 400 m suck, but you either adapt or die.
Which means you either go the huge alpha route or you learn how to use your own playstyle despite it being not optimal.
Maybe stuff will change a bit with the power-draw mechanic.

Edited by TheCharlatan, 27 April 2016 - 12:08 AM.

[adamts01]

Jazzbandit1313, on 26 April 2016 - 10:16 PM, said:

Lrms, when used properly, are just as effective as gauss or lasers, at least in my experience.

Your experience is wrong. LRMs aren't at all reliable against good players, not at all close to laser reliable anyway. That's just the way it is.

As for your OP, I feel you. Peek & alpha sucks. I take breaks months and months long. I've only played for 3 months over a year's time because the gameplay hasn't really gained any more depth since beta. Russell mentioned a new system coming out eventually where "you'll have to chip away" at the enemy more. Who k Ow when/if that will happen. I play crap builds as long as I can before I feel like I'm letting my team down, then it's metta timby for some wins, then back to uac20 adder. I'm hoping this game gets away from whack-a-mech, hopefully it will.

[Widowmaker1981]

To be quite honest, brawling does not need to be more powerful. Its already the main style of play in the group queue, and the solo queue is the only place i have to find some refuge from it. Not everyone wants to brawl all the time. Some people LIKE the slower paced gameplay in the solo queue, for various reasons. Can we not make it so all brawl all the time is the only way to play?

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

I don't think your fustrations are due to map design or the tier system.

Its moreso the high rate of fire and short cooldown PPC's, large lasers, gauss, LRM's and other long range weapons have. One might say long range sniping weapons shouldn't be able to compete on an even footing with short range brawling weapons in terms of DPS at short ranges.

If the firing rate of PPC's, large lasers, LRM's, gauss, AC2's, AC5's were reduced (with the speed of the round increased) -- that would make brawling more viable & possibly be a step in the right direction.

But eh I duno. Maybe this is a dumb idea.

Edited by I Zeratul I, 27 April 2016 - 01:33 AM.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

I Zeratul I, on 27 April 2016 - 01:22 AM, said:

But eh I duno. Maybe this is a dumb idea.

Not a bad idea, but at the current speeds most mechs are capable of, no one would bring anything but brawling weapons.

b/c if you were a sniper, they'd just chase you down and force you to brawl anyway

[Solarise03]

Tier 1 is worst lol

[Ghogiel]

How meta do you think tier 2 is? Since everyone is T1 anyway, even that tier is a blur of skill levels. It's not like T1 is much different that T2 imo. The only differences start at T3-5 where players are either new and haven't played the 100-200 matches to get to T2, or are glue eater/ steering wheelers and can't make the PSR bar fill up. Which is nearly beyond comprehension.

[Noesis]

If you nerf weapons to remove suppression fire just to enable brawling, you will lose that other role.

Brawlers already have the better dps at shorter range, you just need to get to that point to be able to capatalise on this and not by simply zerging the front lines. This then requiring tactics, good use of cover and careful maneuvering. This then the challenge of the brawler.

However, most brawlers simply expect that they should be able to get their 100 ton lumbering atlas to take all the opposing firepower in a blaze of heroic vanguarding and then single handedly dispatch the rest of the enemy team after that, which is kind of dellusional. Some of this perhaps possibly beneficial if with good torso twisting to absorb damage over time it means the rest of your team can then capatalise on that push.

Other options to enjoy brawling is to try faster heavies or mediums to get in close more readily and more able to use cover. This then also allowing for distracting techniques in the enemy lines. The biggest issue here is that mediums where made far too big by PGI's interpretation and thus similarly needing to avoid being shot with less armour per mech area. (Their speed helping a little here however).

Another option would be to consider limiting the number of assaults per drop.

The game wasnt designed with equality in mind and assaults would have been more scarce as part of a drop configuration. These mechs more considered as pivotal mechs that would influence the map. So if less composition of these higher firepower supression mechs existed per side, then it would mean less overall firepower to stop a push.

E.g. instead of a considering an equalised potential 3L/3M/3H/3A per map or other configuration which may mean even more heavies and assaults. You could limit the number of assaults to 2 per drop and perhaps heavies to 3.

You could be more strict and make the composition have more distinct maximums like 4L/5M/2H/1A. This would make drop compositions more orientated to how the original game was designed. And whilst I recognise that the game isnt TT, MWO still uses the original precidents as a way to orientate its gameplay. So it is perhaps no suprise that in our heavy, assault skewed drop decks the games now have too much alpha and too much supression firepower.

Another consideration would be to lower the overall team firepower for supression by moving back to 8 man teams.