149 replies to this topic

[Zakerystrife]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 27 April 2016 - 12:46 PM, said:

having something more than a shallow, repetitive, arena shooter might help



Having a 4 man player cap devistated the player population last time they went there so if youre looking to not have that happen, then thats the opposite of what you want.

When exactly did they go BACK to 4 man caps? I'm pretty sure never? If you have hard evidence that the population was "devastated" please share it. I'm personally looking at a sinking game as of NOW, and providing suggestions to what I think the game needs to succeed. I remember most of the fun from the game was during the 4 man caps, since then its progressively worse. I rarely ran into the horrible match maker issues I have now.

Going by steam numbers, players have been constantly falling. I'm pulling my numbers from this - http://steamcharts.com/app/342200 (I hope links work). Steam is one of the largest gaming platforms in existence, and MWO is hardly touching it, and constantly LOSING players.

This is an issue NOW, and if it isn't looked into, well, there wont be much left.

[Lucian Nostra]

Zakerystrife, on 27 April 2016 - 12:43 PM, said:

I completely disagree with that, I believe having more than 4 players per team is directly causing an imbalance in the game. You can't sit there and tell me that a group of 10 people does NOT have a massive advantage over 3 groups of 4, who don't know each other, don't talk to each other, don't know what each other are running, don't have similar play styles or strategies.

I could care less how many friends you have, want to play with more? Go play private matches, or CW / FW. If its directly hurting casual balance, then its going to be scaring your new player base away. Yes it is in fact a team game, which is why I said communication is very important. You are forcing a pretty big imbalance with huge groups vs small groups. A leader telling 9 others to attack Alpha, will melt that mech very fast. Whereas a leader telling 3 others to attack Alpha might hurt the mech, but who knows what the other 8 people are doing. That's a lot of firepower difference.

i agree I don't recall the 4 group cap been a big issue. if we had 5 we dropped as a 3 and a 2. I can't think of any game aside from MWO that allows such massive groups in PVP matches. WoT for instance limits a group to 3 players out of what 15?

Currently dropping with another friend, and getting another 2 groups of 3 sucks when your getting slammed by a 8-10 man on the other side. It really punishes playing more casually with some friends vs the old mode where it was fine.

[Barantor]

Imperius, on 27 April 2016 - 12:50 PM, said:

Then I will give you the same advice you game me. Go PLAY SOLO queue if you can't handle the big boy queue.


He probably wasn't around then though his badge says he was... Ignorance is bliss I guess...

"Big Boy" queue is supposed to be CW, not the queue where two casuals actually want to play a game together.

I was around for all iterations and trying to get new people into this game is tough. I literally have to tell them I can't play with them because grouping will just end up with them dieing a lot straight off. That doesn't make a game fun for some folks when they are just trying to get used to it.

There is no place for a casual player to play together with friends in this game without committing a lot of time to the game to get better at it.

I'm not the casual player either, I play CW (scout mode is amazing imo), but trying to get friends who aren't as into MWO as I am into this game is like pulling teeth.

So I say the "Big Boys" need to pick, is the group queue the 'end game' or is it CW?

[LastKhan]

Quote

I completely disagree with that, I believe having more than 4 players per team is directly causing an imbalance in the game. You can't sit there and tell me that a group of 10 people does NOT have a massive advantage over 3 groups of 4, who don't know each other, don't talk to each other, don't know what each other are running, don't have similar play styles or strategies.

I could care less how many friends you have, want to play with more? Go play private matches, or CW / FW. If its directly hurting casual balance, then its going to be scaring your new player base away. Yes it is in fact a team game, which is why I said communication is very important. You are forcing a pretty big imbalance with huge groups vs small groups. A leader telling 9 others to attack Alpha, will melt that mech very fast. Whereas a leader telling 3 others to attack Alpha might hurt the mech, but who knows what the other 8 people are doing. That's a lot of firepower difference.

Lucian Nostra, on 27 April 2016 - 12:58 PM, said:

i agree I don't recall the 4 group cap been a big issue. if we had 5 we dropped as a 3 and a 2. I can't think of any game aside from MWO that allows such massive groups in PVP matches. WoT for instance limits a group to 3 players out of what 15?

Currently dropping with another friend, and getting another 2 groups of 3 sucks when your getting slammed by a 8-10 man on the other side. It really punishes playing more casually with some friends vs the old mode where it was fine.

I do have agree with Zack. Having a larger group that are in TS or whatever with full knowledge of whos running what and strats does have a significant advantage amongst those 2-4 mans that just can only rely on each other. I understand the whole "well i wanna play wif all my friends without a cap" and thats fine and dandy but it also causes this issue in turn. I feel its is something to be discussed about.

Honestly if it really comes down to the aspects of gameplay im more likely to listen to someone who has and been seen playing this game all the time then someone who just show to play one mech and disappears.

Edited by LastKhan, 27 April 2016 - 01:09 PM.

[Imperius]

Barantor, on 27 April 2016 - 12:59 PM, said:

"Big Boy" queue is supposed to be CW, not the queue where two casuals actually want to play a game together.

I was around for all iterations and trying to get new people into this game is tough. I literally have to tell them I can't play with them because grouping will just end up with them dieing a lot straight off. That doesn't make a game fun for some folks when they are just trying to get used to it.

There is no place for a casual player to play together with friends in this game without committing a lot of time to the game to get better at it.

I'm not the casual player either, I play CW (scout mode is amazing imo), but trying to get friends who aren't as into MWO as I am into this game is like pulling teeth.

So I say the "Big Boys" need to pick, is the group queue the 'end game' or is it CW?

I'm well aware that there is no place for new players. Why do you think I have pushed for PVE so much? That is there only safe place it is that or solo queue.

I play with 1-2 friends all the time and I do just fine. Positive K/D and W/L so please do not mistake me for being a big goup player. Rare occasions we have 7 people on and we play. Nothing is worse than going I wish I could play with you but our group is full.

This 4 man limit crap idea needs to get out of your heads it is not a solution it just creates an even bigger problem. I mean really 50 tons per player and you think they have some huge advantage lol....

Edited by Imperius, 27 April 2016 - 01:10 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Zakerystrife, on 27 April 2016 - 12:56 PM, said:

When exactly did they go BACK to 4 man caps? I'm pretty sure never? If you have hard evidence that the population was "devastated" please share it. I'm personally looking at a sinking game as of NOW, and providing suggestions to what I think the game needs to succeed. I remember most of the fun from the game was during the 4 man caps, since then its progressively worse. I rarely ran into the horrible match maker issues I have now.

Going by steam numbers, players have been constantly falling. I'm pulling my numbers from this - http://steamcharts.com/app/342200 (I hope links work). Steam is one of the largest gaming platforms in existence, and MWO is hardly touching it, and constantly LOSING players.

This is an issue NOW, and if it isn't looked into, well, there wont be much left.

Im sorry you havent been here as long as I have so you werent here when they tried to cap groups at 4.

Imperius, on 27 April 2016 - 12:50 PM, said:

He probably wasn't around then though his badge says he was... Ignorance is bliss I guess...

Yeah what Im thinking. Or rose colored glasses

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 27 April 2016 - 01:14 PM.

[Barantor]

Imperius, on 27 April 2016 - 01:08 PM, said:

I'm well aware that there is no place for new players. Why do you think I have pushed for PVE so much? That is there only safe place it is that or solo queue.

I play with 1-2 friends all the time and I do just fine. Positive K/D and W/L so please do not mistake me for being a big goup player. Rare occasions we have 7 people on and we play. Nothing is worse than going I wish I could play with you but our group is full.

This 4 man limit crap idea needs to get out of your heads it is not a solution it just creates an even bigger problem. I mean really 50 tons per player and you think they have some huge advantage lol....

There is only one game mode currently with a cap and that is scout mode which applies to the whole team not just a group.

Right now you can play 12 mans all day in CW and as soon as the ceasefire starts a lot of those groups jump straight into the group queue. I've been in them and we destroy anything that isn't another big group. I'm sure it isn't a lot of fun for the other team and I honestly don't like that it does it.

Tonnage isn't the advantage, it's the ability to coordinate. Yeah the whole 'teamwork OP' thing.

In this case it isn't so much about OP or not, but about letting folks in small groups have a chance. As said earlier, WoT has a group cap and does fine with it and I've never had a problem with that games cap. Big groups tend to play other modes in that game.

We have a population problem in this game. It is compounded by the fact that small groups and casual players suffer and that chases them off to other games. We could all yell 'git gud' at the top of our lungs, but that isn't helping the problem either.

Eventually the whales are going to beach and there won't be enough minnows to keep the lights on.

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 27 April 2016 - 01:14 PM, said:

I'm sorry you haven't been here as long as I have so you weren't here when they tried to cap groups at 4.

I was and a lot has changed since then.

4 man caps might not be the answer, but something has to give on some front for the population to grow.

[Imperius]

I just told you I only play in small groups and have zero issue... so my point is there is a safe place called solo queue and that is for the new players.

So PVE is what you should be pushing for?

[TheLuc]

I just had a flash about a game facing the same issue, World of Warplanes. Very low population and as soon you get the actual plane you like you see the intro and then you are gunned down. In fact World of Warplanes is in a worst spot in my opinion as it is more difficult to do variations to the game.

A real Solaris is overdue, and we need Duncan Fisher back ( George Ledoux ) that could be done quite easy since its last man standing match and a small map ( coliseum style like in MW4 Merc )

Edited by TheLuc, 27 April 2016 - 01:30 PM.

[Barantor]

Imperius, on 27 April 2016 - 01:23 PM, said:

I just told you I only play in small groups and have zero issue... so my point is there is a safe place called solo queue and that is for the new players.

So PVE is what you should be pushing for?

You aren't new, whole different experience for someone that knows their way around this game backwards and forwards and someone who might play it twice a month and might play more if it wasn't so brutal every time they grouped with even one other person.

PvE would be nice, but it isn't an easy thing. Something easier must be done, doesn't have to be 4 man caps in group queue, but something to make this game more appealing to those who aren't avid fans is a must.

[Deathlike]

Trying to restrict group drops to 4-mans is not the issue. In fact, the only issue it brings is less activity as far as I'm concerned.

The part about teamwork is that people actually have to work together. Often times, this doesn't even happen. Bad 10/12-mans exist despite that, and inherent number doesn't always mean people are working together. The more people you have to deal with, the greater the chances derping/screwing up happens.

Even in the case where you have 4-man EmP/SJR groups roaming around.. if they have 8 other people on that team derping, well, you are screwing up every chance of winning.

What's worse is that tonnage discrepancy. A 10-man has a current cap of 535 tons with 12-mans capped @ 600. While this goes on, you can have multiple smaller groups on the opfor that can run a full deck of heavies+assaults, and while I don't like losing that tonnage matchup... the teams that lose despite having that tonnage advantage... it's on you for not working together.

Yes, teamwork is OP, but if you guys continue to decide doing your own thing and not work together (which is often the cause of a loss), then why aren't you working together? It bothers me more when I see so much salt and yet no progress on the teamwork front to even mitigate the reasons for the loss... it's usually more derp and it's way easier to take advantage of people derping off in a corner than it is to set up a firing line knowing people are coming.

Blaming teams for teamwork is easier than blaming yourself for not actually doing teamwork.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Ryokens leap, on 27 April 2016 - 10:06 AM, said:

A lot of players come and go because they are part of the button mashing console hoard and MWO is not compatible with that demographic.

Yeah, you only need to mash 1 button......put all your lasers in 1, press 1 all game.

[Farix]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 27 April 2016 - 12:46 PM, said:

Having a 4 man player cap devistated the player population last time they went there so if youre looking to not have that happen, then thats the opposite of what you want.

I'm going to call BS on this one. No one was leaving because group size was limited to 4 players. In fact, matches were far more dynamic—and fun—back then. If players left, it was entirely because of other factors and never over the group size being limited to 4.

[Imperius]

Farix, on 27 April 2016 - 03:55 PM, said:

I'm going to call BS on this one. No one was leaving because group size was limited to 4 players. In fact, matches were far more dynamic—and fun—back then. If players left, it was entirely because of other factors and never over the group size being limited to 4.

You try being a unit that can't play together see how long you bother to stick around. The main community left the game in droves. For what reason so bads can get false sense of being good? If groups are that bad go play solo queue. You can't have your cake and eat it too!

[Moldur]

Lets not forget the mech release cycle and big patches.

MWO makes itself a very reward game to only play every couple of months.

I would suggest that any opinions or ideas about player retention and population look over at least a year.

[Farix]

Imperius, on 27 April 2016 - 04:03 PM, said:

You try being a unit that can't play together see how long you bother to stick around. The main community left the game in droves. For what reason so bads can get false sense of being good? If groups are that bad go play solo queue. You can't have your cake and eat it too!

Translation Whaah, limiting groups to 4 prevents my "elite" 12 group from ROFLstomping the filthy casuals who were too stupid enough to play in a group.

There is a reason the player population dramatically dropped soon after the player queues were separated between solos and groups.

Edited by Farix, 27 April 2016 - 04:17 PM.

[Imperius]

Farix, on 27 April 2016 - 04:12 PM, said:

Translation Whaah, limiting groups to 4 prevents my "elite" 12 group from ROFLstomping the filthy casuals who were too stupid enough to play in a group.

There is a ready the player population dramatically dropped soon after the player queues were separated between solos and groups.

If I rolled with a 12 man that shoe would fit. I don't expect any of no child left behind generation to understand working to get good.

Your problem is you think you're entitled to win your matches against groups that put time and effort into the game, while you sit back and put fourth little to no effort.

The solo queue is calling for any of you afraid of the group queue.

Quit acting like it has something to do with new player retention numbers.

[Barantor]

Imperius, on 27 April 2016 - 04:03 PM, said:

You try being a unit that can't play together see how long you bother to stick around. The main community left the game in droves. For what reason so bads can get false sense of being good? If groups are that bad go play solo queue. You can't have your cake and eat it too!

Community Warfare is a place you can play bigger groups though? (and get rewards if you haven't gotten them, and fight for a faction, and....)

I forget how long ago it was, but was the Community Warfare even in back when we had 4 man restrictions?

[MechWarrior319348]

Should we find a way to put this in patch feedback? Or get it pinned somewhere? I feel like this is really really important stuff.

[Zakerystrife]

I was hoping this didn't get stuck on a simple suggestion that I put in, I see a lot of people are back and forth about group caps. And yes I've been around since closed beta, I did play in the 4 man caps, and it was really fun. But remember I play casually. "just play solo queue" isn't an answer. I do like what Barantor brought up, you have CW now, so go play it. The game mode was voted in as a main priority and ironically very few are playing it.

For those of you that want to play in something bigger than a 4 man unit, you have private matches, you have community warfare, why can't casual players have something, not all of us want to sit there for hours on end learning the game, we just want to drop in and shoot stuff. If you want to train in your unit, play and learn against YOURSELF, pug stomping new players / casual players isn't teaching you anything. The game in its current state is not fun long term for new players or casuals because big group sizes are literally tearing it down.

To keep players it needs to be fun. To be fun you need to be able to casually play, and if you decide you want to get deeper in, you play CW, join a unit, skirmish etc etc. We should not be forced into a situation where we need to always be at our best, some of us just want to play and shoot crap. No I don't expect to win even half my matches playing like that, but this entire post was about new players and player retention, and making your casual / new crowd get stomped over and over and over and over and over, is not promoting positive player retention.

Now you are intimidating us to even joining group queue? Isn't this half the freaking problem? It shouldn't be intimidating, it should be FUN and enjoyable, why play a game that is intimidating?