52 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

but peppering the entire mech is useless

its not useless in battletech.

its only useless in MWO because crits dont matter at all and its easier to kill a mech than disable it with crits

TTK would have to be drastically increased for crits to matter


Some people are in favor of doubling internal structure again to help increase TTK and make crits matter more. Cant say thats the worst idea ive heard.

But they also need to fix the problem of AC/10s being better crit weapons than LB10Xs.

Edited by Khobai, 27 April 2016 - 09:06 PM.

[LordNothing]

its actually pretty good now. but it will never be a skill weapon. i am ok with this.

[Navid A1]

with the current crit damage... LBX will remain a Sh** weapon.

They can reduce spread and buff cooldown all they want.

The way to go is increasing crit damage.


Considering the fact that the person who can decide on this is the same person behind garbage machine guns.... i'm not having high hopes.
I'm tired of explaining and asking... to hell with all the weapons.. all the mechs and all everything!

[The Great Bear]

i find the way they did LBX odd because they are not shotguns they are shells that explode when they hit target in battletech thats the reason clans can change from AoE or slug it just does not explode when it hits target

[Thorqemada]

Probably the best we can hope for is that PGI would make the LBX work like a Clan PPC that does damage to adjacent spots...it would still give the Weapon its uniqueness and improve the usefulness.

[Monodominant]

The point is, the weapon needs to be good but not better.

There shouldnt be 'better' as then EVERYONE would take this instead of the AC10.

Currently the ONLY benefit I see on the LBX10 from IS side is that it needs less slots... so in my MAD-3R I can fit two LBX10s on the side torso but only one AC10.

The other 'potential' benefit of the spread is making it easier to hit very fast foes... so I wont be able to damage the light mechs legs SPECIFICALLY but I will be able to hit it...

BUT... since as everyone says the spread will just do a bit of damage everywhere the actual weapon damage is mitigated. The clan PPC mechanic does seem like a good idea and would help the weapon become better...

As for the clan side... I am unsure what the benefit of the LBXs are very the UACs... if any.

[BabyCakes666]

i just got a CN9-D and with its LBX quirks the lbx10 is doing me great so now im hitting mechs with like 8 pellets at 600m

and at 500m its doing much better

chasing down week mechs and lights is so much better with the spread buff

sand blasted an ACH real good then SRMs finished him off

[nitra]

Lbx is back . and its a nice change to have a weapon that can be used to soften up targets .

i usually boat the lbxs on a muromets and before the change this mech was in a sad state of affairs . the new lbx change brings this mech back to the forfront of damage dealer.

dont care about kills just care about whacking the hell out targets especially those grouped together and thats where the lbx shines now.

those times when you have a lance or 2 of mechs setup in a nice firing line. bring in the lbx boats to shatter that line as it starts to crumble under the barrage of damage. 2 lbx boats working in tandem can shatter a team pretty quick.

so yeah lbx is in a better place. its nice to have it back .

[Khobai]

The problem is that LBX is not the king of critting like it should be.

Most equipments have 10 health so a single AC10 shot can potentially destroy 1-3 pieces of equipment with a single, double, or triple crit

But a single LB10X shot cant even destroy 1 piece of equipment.

Theres just something extremely wrong with that. LBX should be the best crit weapon in the game.


Crit multipliers for AC/10, PPC, etc... needs to be lowered from x1 to like x0.6 so those weapons are significantly worse at critting than LBX.

Edited by Khobai, 28 April 2016 - 02:00 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I like the idea where the LBX is designed to work like a Clan ERPPC.

Fire a LBX "slug" and it travels as a single round to it's target where it "bursts" in close proximity to the target. Like the CLan ERPPC, the LBX delivers 80% of it's damage potential to the hitbox you aimed at, and delivers the remaining 20% of the shells damage to surrounding components.

I think something like that would work for most if not all LBX rounds. The only one I am unsure of is the LBX2 since splitting up damage potential from a 2 damage round might be worse than current. Maybe an exception would need to be made for smaller rounds. I'm not sure.

In anycase, it seems like a solid solution for larger caliber ballistics.

[Jun Watarase]

Ive been using a LBX-20 in quick play for a couple of matches. Its still terrible. On the clan side, there is simply no reason to use the LBX-20 over the UAC 10...the UAC 10 is lighter, uses less slots, can put 20 points of damage into one location at far off ranges, and runs cooler. If i get into a fire fight with a heavy or assault at 200m or more, the LBX is going to do pretty much nothig to it while the UAC 10 will at least hurt it.

And the UAC 20 will give me a pretty good chance of coring a heavy in a 1vs1, while the LBX-20 will simply get me killed (all other factors being equal of course).

It doesnt help that "muh critical hits" is still irrelevant when there is often nothing important in the CT to crit, since engine/gyro crits do nothing at the moment.

On the IS side, a UAC 5 >>> the LBX-10. Its not even a contest really.

[totgeboren]

As many have said. If it was a HE solid slug with splash damage like the C-ERPPC but improved crit chance, it would be a pretty nice weapon.
Worse against armour (because of the splash) but better against internals because of the better crit chance.
Putting a shotgun on a mech just looks strange, and also messes a bit with the scale and immersion.

[EvilCow]

When they will give it perfect convergence it will be as good as an AC10 at one less ton.

They need to work on making it different, just some ideas:

1) Keep the spread but increase the overall damage (MW4 solution, it just worked).
2) Give it a 20% cool down advantage over the equivalent AC.
3) Give it a 5% chance per pellet to crit through the armour because fragments hitting joints or other weaker spots.
4) Give it finally the dual ammo mode it is supposed to have.

Just reducing spread over and over will not work, they have already done this like 3 times with exactly the same result.

[Dar1ng One]

Well they seem to be doing better, but they can't use female toilets in certain states of 'Merica. Still I hope Cait Jenner can change that one day.

OH, LBX weapons.

Yeah, they alright.

Mmmmmmm..... yes

Mech-Cellent!

[Raso]

After discussing this with people for a while now, this is what think.

• All pellets should always deal 1 damage (I mean isn't the spread bad enough?)
  
• Tighten grouping just a little bit more (but not by much). To pick an LBX10 over an SRM6 it needs to have a tighter grouping than SRM6s at 270m (but it should still spread damage a hair at that range).
  
• Inside of 10% of the weapon's optimal range have each pellet deal anywhere from 1.5 to 1.3 damage each (to be tested and balanced)
  
• Damage scales down to 1 damage per pellet at optimum range (pellets will either drop off into the ground at max range or just fizzle out, I guess)
  
• Overall increase to the rate of fire of most LBXs and maybe a hair more heat generation to compensate for the extra damage and rate of fire.

The weapon is now no longer competing with AC10s. The weapon is now a close range brawling support weapon that eats armor. Currently at range the AC10 is a superior choice to an LBX10, and it should stay that way. Up close, however, the LBX10 should clearly out preform an AC10.

We will not get ammo switching. Even if it is possible in the current engine PGI clearly views such a feature as a waste of time and energy. While this doesn't jive with canon at least it's a feasible option.

[Khobai]

Quote

The weapon is now no longer competing with AC10s. The weapon is now a close range brawling support weapon that eats armor.

But its supposed to be a crit weapon that eats structure

thats the exact opposite of its intended role

again the only way to fix the LBX properly is to fix the whole critical hit system...

Edited by Khobai, 28 April 2016 - 10:29 AM.

[ArandomSTD]

Big fan of the changes, now my Legend Killer is in fact a Legend Killer.

With quirks and modules, My Rifleman Legend Killer's LB 10-X has 37% cooldown, -10% spread, and 10% range. I was performing mediocre at best, now however I find I destroy most mechs in duels, and if they have a damaged component it does not last.

Here is my last game with My Legend Killer whom has 2 LB 10-Xs(80 rounds) and 4 Medium Lasers, with an xl 290.

I would also like to report a BUG with the LB 10-X, it cannot hit UAVs, which is SUPER ANNOYING considering my LK was designed to murder things high up in the air like UAVs.

Edited by ArandomSTD, 28 April 2016 - 11:13 AM.

[Jun Watarase]

Lots of potentially great ideas here but things that Paul will never implement .

[Mystere]

Mcgral18, on 27 April 2016 - 04:57 PM, said:

Crit Chance isn't the issue, Crit Damage is.

The AC10 needs a single crit to destroy any item in the game, while the LBx needs 5 individual Crits to ALL HIT the same item.


Change the CritDamMult from 2x to 5x, suddenly you only need 2 Crits to roll the same location (with 2-20 rolls of 0-60 Crits, and a 67% chance to roll at least one)
Suddenly, LBx weapons are not absolute shite at Critting, and even the lowly LB2x has a small chance to Crit an item out in a single (Structure exposed) shot.

Oops! My bad! I meant chance and damage. Post fixed.

[Raso]

Khobai, on 28 April 2016 - 10:25 AM, said:

But its supposed to be a crit weapon that eats structure

thats the exact opposite of its intended role

again the only way to fix the LBX properly is to fix the whole critical hit system...

No fixing the crit system will fix he crit system not the LBX.

The LBX needs to be useful weather an enemy has armor or is stripped. This is MWO, not TT. We load boat and we boat like Nimitz will give us a freaking medal if we boat hard enough. There is no room on a mech for 10 to 13 tons worth of weapon and ammo that's only useful after all of your other weapons have already done almost all of the work. The weapon needs to deal damage. IT doesn't need to be pin point it just needs to be worthwhile. Upping it damage and making it a close range shotgun that out damages a similarly rated AC at close range and out pin-points a single SRM towards the end of an SRM's maximum range is, in my opinion, the easiest and most practical way to get them into a good place.