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Please Devote More Attention To Quick Play


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#1 Mech Man Dan

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 02:11 AM

A lot of people are calling for 8v8. Server costs aren't that much in the grand scheme of things. Maybe in extremely lean times they were desperate to cut corners where they could. Why not look to successful FPS and their game modes and stop trying to reinvent the wheel (domination..?). Why not capture the flag with a lore-friendly coat of paint to appease the roleplayers? I think a CTF mode would give the different mech weights the utility people keep calling for (and please no gunslinging AI turrets/dropships anymore), let alone simply reintroducing 8v8. Lower playercounts suit the game just as well if not better than 12v12.

If they knew 8v8 and other simple additions would make the game better and bring in more customers to make them more money I assume they would do it. Russ or someone else must think it wont and they need to be convinced otherwise. If it cost so much for these new servers per instance of game regardless of player count, I don't know why they decided to do 4v4 scouting. I think that goes to show that line of reasoning is probably false.

This game desperately needs more variety in the quick play modes. CW is FUBAR and should be left where it is. They need to make quick play better. That is the bread and butter of the game. Further developing CW is fruitless.

Edited by Mech Man Dan, 29 April 2016 - 02:13 AM.


#2 Triordinant

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 02:30 AM

Maybe now that CW is a "done deal" they just might...

#3 STEF_

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 02:47 AM

View PostMech Man Dan, on 29 April 2016 - 02:11 AM, said:

Why not look to successful FPS and their game modes and stop trying to reinvent the wheel

Actally this is the true reason why MWO is going down the road from beta: pgi wanting to do a FPS like many others, hoping to have some success.

Instead MW is completely different beast.... sorry, I'm wrong: MWO should have been a completely different beast

#4 Mech Man Dan

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 02:53 AM

View PostStefka Kerensky, on 29 April 2016 - 02:47 AM, said:

Actally this is the true reason why MWO is going down the road from beta: pgi wanting to do a FPS like many others, hoping to have some success.

Instead MW is completely different beast.... sorry, I'm wrong: MWO should have been a completely different beast


Your wording doesn't really make sense... language barrier?

Mechwarrrior 4 had CTF and Solaris and plenty of people found that enjoyable enough, it would be a welcome addition to the game.

#5 SmoothCriminal

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 03:24 AM

Stefka Kerensky is pointing out that PGI is looking other games to the detriment of MWO lore. We increasingly have FPS style modes (eg domination) that don't necessarily fit the play style of the game. Something like a convoy escort, VIP etc. would be brilliant but it's slow progress at present.

Nonetheless we are all with you - looking for additional content that is accessible for solos - be it expanding/incorporating the FP queue with the QP queue, re-instigating 8v8 or adding more game types. Ideally all three.

#6 STEF_

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 03:55 AM

View PostMech Man Dan, on 29 April 2016 - 02:53 AM, said:


Your wording doesn't really make sense... language barrier?

Mechwarrrior 4 had CTF and Solaris and plenty of people found that enjoyable enough, it would be a welcome addition to the game.

I think what you understood well; if not, just use a bunch of neurons and give a try to your intuitive skill ;)

(Also, MW4 is been the worse mw ever...so yes, I can understand the kind of mw u like... Posted Image )

#7 STEF_

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 04:00 AM

View PostSmoothCriminal, on 29 April 2016 - 03:24 AM, said:

Stefka Kerensky is pointing out that PGI is looking other games to the detriment of MWO lore. We increasingly have FPS style modes (eg domination) that don't necessarily fit the play style of the game. Something like a convoy escort, VIP etc. would be brilliant but it's slow progress at present.

Nonetheless we are all with you - looking for additional content that is accessible for solos - be it expanding/incorporating the FP queue with the QP queue, re-instigating 8v8 or adding more game types. Ideally all three.

^^ this.

And I want to add, it's the "quick play" that Mech Man Dan wants, the "always the same 5 minute" quickie, that is killing the game.
Adding more and different modes won't solve a rat (sorry dan....."it won't solve anything". Better?)
It would be always skirmish anyway: when enemy team is killed, you win.

We need lore, roleplaying, something to give a meaning to our "5 minute drops".

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 29 April 2016 - 04:01 AM.


#8 Sjorpha

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 04:28 AM

View PostTriordinant, on 29 April 2016 - 02:30 AM, said:

Maybe now that CW is a "done deal" they just might...


FW is very far from a done deal at this point, it doesn't even have a win condition which means no strategic purpose for taking planets.

What it is is two tactical gamemodes and a reward system, placed into a framework of a map representing an unfinished strategy game.

Unfinished is the key word here, FW will not be an actual game until that macro game has win conditions and strategy towards fulfilling those conditions. A game can not be called a game, and certainly not a competitive one, until it can be played to win.

This the basic conundrum of FW that PGI refuses to address so far: They have advertised a game mode as "competitive", and then provided no victory to compete for.

I'm not saying that win conditions are sufficient for making a good game, but it IS a neseccary ingredient. It's one of the minimal basic conditions needed for a game to be an actual PvP game rather than a sandbox or roleplaying workshop or something.

Here's the minimal list of ingredients for a PvP game:
1. 2 or more players.
2. A ruleset defining legal and illegal moves in the game.
3. A win condition.

That's it. that's all you need to be a game. For the game to be fun 2 and 3 must be well executed but even if they aren't there is still an actual competition as long as 1, 2 and 3 exist.

PGI is trying to create a game with only 1 and 2 of these basic ingredients, but it's impossible because 3(the wincon) is what defines the emergent meaning of 2 (performing different legal moves). If there is no win condition then there is no way to measure success or failure, all the legal moves in the game therefore become meaningless by definition and there is no way to address that other than adding ingredient 3.

Is it better to have 100 planets that 1 planet in FW? Why? In relation to what? The faction with 1 planet is exactly as successful as the one with 100 planets because there is no advantage to having more planets.

PGI is trying to replace the basic necessity for a win condition with a reward system. That is simply a futile prospect. Rewards disconnected from gameplay are not a competitive aspect of a game, only scrubs care about them. At best they add nothing to gameplay and at worst they create harmful perverse incentives such as farming mechs before killing omega and so on. Gameplay wise would quite honestly be better off without a reward system, it's just an artifact of the F2P business model that we have to live with.

You could make rewards a part of condition 2, the game rules, if they were part of an economic simulation that actually impacted strategy through resource control and so on. That would be great for FW, but then you'd have to admit that winning moves should be rewarded with escalation of resources rather than be punished for the childish notion of keeping factions from winning ("population balance", lol), and the current pants-on-head line of thinking seems to be that the better a faction does the more they should be punished with reduced rewards.

Now as it stands the reward system is actively harming gameplay. It could be reformed to be harmless or integrated into an economic simulation and become real gameplay. But even if it was it would at best be a part of the legal moves, you'd still need to add a win condition as the 3rd basic ingredient.

Edited by Sjorpha, 29 April 2016 - 04:40 AM.


#9 hutzlibu

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 05:03 AM

I think 8 vs 8 and especially CTF would be a really nice improvement ...
But I also think, that you should be able to have a strict choice of gamemodes, as many probably won't like CTF, which is allright, but others would enjoy it.
In other words, a serverbrowser would be really good ...

#10 Davers

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 07:17 AM

People keep asking for a convoy type mission. Have you guys even thought about how that would work in MWO? How easy it would be to just rush and destroy the convoy (see Generators)? How fast would the convoy be moving and how does that fit in with the 15 minute time scale of the game? What would the route be, especially on smaller maps like Frozen City?

#11 Monkey Lover

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 07:20 AM

Maybe they can focus on a way to get the pugs out of quick play so we can get some good games :P

#12 Mystere

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 07:23 AM

View PostDavers, on 29 April 2016 - 07:17 AM, said:

People keep asking for a convoy type mission. Have you guys even thought about how that would work in MWO? How easy it would be to just rush and destroy the convoy (see Generators)? How fast would the convoy be moving and how does that fit in with the 15 minute time scale of the game? What would the route be, especially on smaller maps like Frozen City?


I think it would be tricky for a lance/star to attack a convoy defended by two companies/binaries. Posted Image

Of course this all assumes we have maps bigger than what we have now.

Edited by Mystere, 29 April 2016 - 07:24 AM.


#13 Davers

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 07:28 AM

View PostMystere, on 29 April 2016 - 07:23 AM, said:


I think it would be tricky for a lance/star to attack a convoy defended by two companies/binaries. Posted Image

Of course this all assumes we have maps bigger than what we have now.

It's funny how many suggestions only work if PGI completely changes the entire game. :P

#14 Zolaz

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 07:29 AM

Quick queue is PUGlandia. Surats, surats everywhere.
Posted Image

#15 Mystere

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 07:32 AM

View PostMech Man Dan, on 29 April 2016 - 02:11 AM, said:

Please Devote More Attention To Quick Play


Devote more attention? I want PGI to get rid of it by integrating it's game modes into CW. Posted Image

#16 demoyn

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 07:37 AM

You realize that every time PGI "devotes more attention to quick play" we get crap like conquest and domination, right? Why on earth would you want them to focus on quick play again?

#17 Ghogiel

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 07:42 AM

View Postdemoyn, on 29 April 2016 - 07:37 AM, said:

You realize that every time PGI "devotes more attention to quick play" we get crap like conquest and domination, right? Why on earth would you want them to focus on quick play again?

Because when they don't we get faction play?

*shudders*

#18 sycocys

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 08:10 AM

Quickplay should be skirmish only and that's it, and probably increased to 16v16 or more. Less buckets for the generic game mode.
8v8 was nice and all, but it was also boring because 1 person could literally carry the entire match.

All other game modes should be in CW and the objectives set to the primary focus.

#19 TLBFestus

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 08:26 AM

Lore?
Quick Play?
12 players?
8 players?
Heck..10 players?

See, the problem is that none of this is any use to the competitive side. It doesn't promote eSports(!!!). PGI can't be wasting resources like that if they hope to become the NFL of eSports.

But seriously, I'd love to see 8 or even 10 player matches in quick play. Sure it might not change the essential character of the game at all, but it would be a welcome change and smaller groups might lead to better match making.

#20 Mechteric

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Posted 29 April 2016 - 08:29 AM

View PostMech Man Dan, on 29 April 2016 - 02:11 AM, said:

A lot of people are calling for 8v8. Server costs aren't that much in the grand scheme of things. Maybe in extremely lean times they were desperate to cut corners where they could.


While I agree that I would love to see 8v8 (and 4v4) become reality, I don't think you can make such claims about their servers and costs without actually working for them.


EDIT: I'll be nice

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 29 April 2016 - 08:31 AM.






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