139 replies to this topic

[Slepnir]

People generally do not like change, however i have no issues with the clans and CBT moving the story along. one of the great thing about the game is you can play in any era with the same solid rules set. Also unlike some other mini games that takes place 40 thousand years in the future that are stagnate story wise and have poorly written and thought out rules....suddenly the clans are not that much of an issue.


Even fighting the clans with the IS can be a great game if you roll in with 2:1 odds against the clanners.

Edited by Slepnir, 24 December 2011 - 09:31 PM.

[Galaxy Commander IGOR]

Freeborn scum see where your breeding has gotten you, you cant live without the clans they spawned you....Quaiff

[Aaron DeChavilier]

Alex Wolfe, on 10 December 2011 - 07:51 AM, said:

You know, I really don't want to Godwin bomb this thread, but it's really a hard sell that EVERYONE related to a tyrant is found guilty enough for the death penalty, long war or not. And not even "related to" as in "within the chain of command", it's merely by blood, and not just the "family", the purge went further to distant relatives, basically anyone who could be tracked. Besides, what you describe (with Cameron's family's bodies) isn't due process and confirming guilt - it's one man deciding whether or not to remove people who areproblematic, and is simply shocked into the final decision. There was no due process, no justice other than "eye for an eye". Complicit inaction to an authoritarian leader? Complicit inaction by a child worthy of death penalty? A week-long deliberation on whether or not to kill a bunch of prisoners? Wow, the man must've been a saint!

Hey you want to undermine Aleksandr Kerensky more? Go for it, I’m not used to finding Aleksandr Kerensky fellow critics on a clan forum O.o so my general approach is a little more light-handed (long story:))
That said, I also agree but note the Nuremberg Trials didn’t go on to prosecute the family because Hitler didn’t have that much immediate family complicit with the regime; so Godwin bomb averted

Alex Wolfe, on 10 December 2011 - 07:51 AM, said:

The true reason they were executed wasn't that they were guilty, it's that Alexandr wanted to end Amaris's bloodline. You said to go read the wiki, and so it says on the wiki. He didn't want anyone who could claim, however misguided, to be the heir to the Star League. Such a thing isn't at all unheard of when it comes to hereditary regimes.

I believe that was meant in a pragmatic way of; he didn’t want someone else to step forward and claim the line to then take up arms all over again, but this is just my speculation. Also, no one claiming to be an Amaris could ever claim the Star League First Lordship…because it was never Stefan’s to bestow. The bloodline of the First Lord was the Camerons, and they were all dead.

Alex Wolfe, on 10 December 2011 - 07:51 AM, said:

Sure, he acted out of patriotic reasons, one could say. It's still technically murder, but Kerensky was effectively the highest authority of the Inner Sphere at that time, so kings get away with murder famously. Sure, the guy was smart. Patriotic, I suppose. He wasn't selfish for sure. But he wasn't a nice guy, the "good grandpa, not like Nicholas who misunderstood him!", he was a military leader who didn't shirk from getting his hands bloodied if his perceived "greater good" demanded it.

So I guess it makes him a more intriguing character? Although we would never have a clan story; I think it would have been awesome if Kerensky stood up for his ideals when it mattered – when the Star League lay in ashes around him and the House Lords starting to make a play for it. Imagine a Succession War with Terran Hegemony intact…

Alex Wolfe, on 10 December 2011 - 07:51 AM, said:

I sort of agree with the rest of your post, though (and it's... interesting... to see the word "munchkin" come back to life on these boards).

Aye, clan tech = munchkinism pure and simple.

Edited by Aaron DeChavilier, 12 December 2011 - 07:36 AM.

[Zakris]

I started playing BTech before the Clans arrived. I'm still an Inner Sphere purist.
I liked the Clan storyline, but I think when you don't put restrictions on the tech in a boardgame sense (via Rules of Engagement or BV), they tend to win the vast majority of the fights.

I remember playing the Tukkayid (sp?) campaign at the local hobby shop and had a great time.

I'll definitely be on the IS side in MWO.

Edited by Zakris, 12 December 2011 - 08:01 AM.

[Alex Wolfe]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 12 December 2011 - 07:34 AM, said:

Hey you want to undermine Aleksandr Kerensky more? Go for it, I’m not used to finding Aleksandr Kerensky fellow critics on a clan forum O.o so my general approach is a little more light-handed (long story:))
That said, I also agree but note the Nuremberg Trials didn’t go on to prosecute the family because Hitler didn’t have that much immediate family complicit with the regime; so Godwin bomb averted

I rather meant by it that some of [you got Godwon'd!]'s cohorts (people in the actual chain of command or high-up in the propaganda apparatus, not merely "family and relatives") received minor prison sentences or were in fact acquitted rather than death penalty.

Aaron DeChavilier, on 12 December 2011 - 07:34 AM, said:

I believe that was meant in a pragmatic way of; he didn’t want someone else to step forward and claim the line to then take up arms all over again, but this is just my speculation. Also, no one claiming to be an Amaris could ever claim the Star League First Lordship…because it was never Stefan’s to bestow. The bloodline of the First Lord was the Camerons, and they were all dead.

Such is war, I guess - and many rulers and revolutionists in history so far have repeated similar actions, by the m.o. of you can be pragmatic, or you can be moral. "There is a man, there is a problem. No man, no problem"; quiaff? They remove the man, get rid of the problem for the forseeable future and let the history judge.

Aaron DeChavilier, on 12 December 2011 - 07:34 AM, said:

So I guess it makes him a more intriguing character? Although we would never have a clan story; I think it would have been awesome if Kerensky stood up for his ideals when it mattered – when the Star League lay in ashes around him and the House Lords starting to make a play for it. Imagine a Succession War with Terran Hegemony intact…

That's the way I feel about it as well. Kerensky as the old soldier-patriot who does what he feels must be done, without seeking glory for himself, with ambigous aims behind the Exodus, beats the Magical Santa Claus Kerensky some Clan fans seem to believe in any day in my book.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 12 December 2011 - 01:25 PM.

[CaveMan]

Magical Santa Claus Kerensky.... Comes in a big red Orion once a year to distribute ER Large Lasers and LB-20X Autocannons to all the Clan children who've been honorable.

[Alex Wolfe]

CaveMan, on 12 December 2011 - 01:23 PM, said:

Magical Santa Claus Kerensky.... Comes in a big red Orion once a year to distribute ER Large Lasers and LB-20X Autocannons to all the Clan children who've been honorable.

Too rarely do I literally lol on a forum. Well played!

[Aaron DeChavilier]

CaveMan, on 12 December 2011 - 01:23 PM, said:

Magical Santa Claus Kerensky.... Comes in a big red Orion once a year to distribute ER Large Lasers and LB-20X Autocannons to all the Clan children who've been honorable.

ho ho ho! merry bloodright!
he comes in a leapord CV dropship pulled by eight magical flying firemoths....

[Slepnir]

Zakris, on 12 December 2011 - 07:59 AM, said:

I started playing BTech before the Clans arrived. I'm still an Inner Sphere purist.
I liked the Clan storyline, but I think when you don't put restrictions on the tech in a boardgame sense (via Rules of Engagement or BV), they tend to win the vast majority of the fights.

I remember playing the Tukkayid (sp?) campaign at the local hobby shop and had a great time.

I'll definitely be on the IS side in MWO.

In all my years of experience on the TT with IS fighting calns, i really do not see that issue. the game is so well balanced via the in-built crit system we don't even bother with BV or other arbitrary force building requirements other than 2:1 odds

The clan player drops a single star of whatever he feels like playing and the IS players drop 2 lances and we have a go at it. in every case it has been a hard fought and great gaming experience. sometimes the clans win and sometimes the IS wins, but it is always a bloody affair.

[Sten Yorgenson]

To me the clans really changed the feel of the game. It was already starting with the 2750 tech read out. I enjoyed the old smack down drag out fights with the AC20 being the only one shot kill weapon for head hits. When the guass rifle came out partial cover started really sucking. The concept of the clans added alot to the overall universe as the fedcom was starting to become an unstoppable juggernaut.

[Slepnir]

Quote

When the guass rifle came out partial cover started really sucking.

Only if you take the huge +3 mod to fire over terrain to hit on the punch location tables. otherwise it is better to have terrain since it is a +1 mod to hit and hits to legs stil count, they just hit interviening terrain.

We almost never use punch loocation over terrain hits because the modifier is usually just to much.

[Kudzu]

Slepnir, on 24 December 2011 - 09:35 PM, said:

Only if you take the huge +3 mod to fire over terrain to hit on the punch location tables. otherwise it is better to have terrain since it is a +1 mod to hit and hits to legs stil count, they just hit interviening terrain.

We almost never use punch loocation over terrain hits because the modifier is usually just to much.

We started using the PC = +1 to hit, use the regular hit chart, leg hits do no damage rules. Works a lot better.

[Unclecid]

from a story standpoint i loved.

as a battletech player and GM ( taking tabletop here) i hated it because of how munchy clan meks were.

[Draelren]

Alex Wolfe, on 09 December 2011 - 05:49 AM, said:

The reason that the Clans weren't using nukes was the same why IS ceased using them: scarce resources. Hardly a case for Clan moral superiority.

Actually they stopped using them due to the fact that the Wolverine's SUPPOSEDLY used a nuke on Snow Raven's genetic repository.

After that if I recall correctly was when it turned into being seen as outright dishonorable due to the fact that it was attached to the not-named clan.

[Datum]

First exposure to Battletech was Mechwarrior 2, so I kinda grew up on the clans.
Finding out about the Inner Sphere was a downer for me, especially that they were more popular. Scumbag mercenaries and dishonorable grabs for land and power.

[Stormwolf]

Datum, on 01 January 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

First exposure to Battletech was Mechwarrior 2, so I kinda grew up on the clans.
Finding out about the Inner Sphere was a downer for me, especially that they were more popular. Scumbag mercenaries and dishonorable grabs for land and power.

You are preaching to the choir here

[Dagger6T6]

I was perfectly content having Kurita bash Davion into oblivion as humankind continued a downward spiral and technology reverted back to the stone age... it was a very "roadwarrior-esque" existence.

Then the Clans show up and upset that delicate balance with their superior tech and mechs and system of warrior honor. I mean here we are on our 4th Succession War and I had at least 2 more Succession Wars left in me, but noooooooooo all these tube pilots show up from almost nowhere claiming to restore peace and civility back into the universe.

So then all the Inner Sphere has to put their differences aside and combat this new threat and face near extinction or capitulation. So although it upset my perfect little world, the storyline is off the damn charts.

I'm still waiting for the Mechwarrior movies to roll out... how could this be any less epic than say Star Wars or Lord of the Rings? The books are amazing and if someone would make the movies and make them right it would be at a whole new level.

Angelina Jolie as Natasha Kerensky, just sayin'

actually scratch that... Angleina can be someone else... Kate Beckinsale is my new Natasha

[Aaron DeChavilier]

have you not seen Scarlett Johansson as the real Black Widow in Iron Man 2?
she's definitely my ideal of the Black Widow

[Dagger6T6]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 05 January 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

have you not seen Scarlett Johansson as the real Black Widow in Iron Man 2?
she's definitely my ideal of the Black Widow

ahh yes excellent point... clearly the only way to settle this would be the casting couch... a clothes off, pose off if you will.

and clearly we have gotten way off topic, but oh what a way to go

/hijack

[Stormwolf]

Dagger6T6, on 05 January 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

ahh yes excellent point... clearly the only way to settle this would be the casting couch... a clothes off, pose off if you will.

and clearly we have gotten way off topic, but oh what a way to go

/hijack

I'd rather discuss Scarlett Johansson.