38 replies to this topic

[Tarl Cabot]

Carl Vickers, on 01 June 2016 - 07:22 PM, said:

If this were to happen, I could see the merc population jump big time and even less reason (other than RP) to be loyalist.

Might as well call the game Merc Warrior Online.

Keep the techs separate.

The url is mwomercs.com Does that count?

[Sader325]

MischiefSC, on 01 June 2016 - 10:14 PM, said:

So we should really not have loyalists and faction means absolutely nothing? That's a great idea. Turn out marvelously.

We have that in QP. We already have it. If you introduce mixed tech in FW why the **** do you have FW different from QP?

If mercs can mix IS and Clan mechs in a deck you've just made them immeasurably superior to loyalists. Also why only mercs? Why can a merc get a Clan mech but a FRR loyalist can't? They fight just as many Clanners. So you've got Clans in Clan mechs and IS in IS and Clan mechs? Or just let Clanners pilot IS mechs too, so it's just mixed tech matches?

That's a bad idea.

Why go loyalist? Because as a loyalist you get to own territory. Mercs get to be a driving force that can help decide conflicts. Hiring mercenaries becomes an increasingly powerful tool because they are able to field mechs from both sides.

There's a reason i said the game mode needs to be fixed before this is implemented, something you seem to have not noticed I said.

There needs to be powerful incentives (not MC, really meaty strategy elements) to owning planets and territory. If these incentives exist than mercenaries would need an equally powerful incentive to not be loyalist.

The game mode needs true incentives while also creating a true tangible difference between mercs and loyalists.

Mercs being able to use any mechs, and loyalists getting real planetary incentives would make this work.

Stop thinking in terms of our current game mode, because our current game mode is trash.

[DivBy0]

the state of the game:

2/3 to 3/4 of the FP population seems to be mercs which switch every week and give nothing on the fractions, the map, the lore or the tradition. Is there any advantage stay a loyalist? I can only see some very big disadvantages!

IS loyalists were punished hard in the last months and with the Phase 3 Desaster:
Clans have become theirs own game mode (streak scouting against poor pugs), ID, Satelite Sweep and [Long Tom]
Clans have become the possibility to fit Clan Weapon and Clan Tech on IS Mechs (Jenner IIC, Hunchback IIC, Orion IIC, Kodiak and the Kodiak Gen Rush) and IS Mechs get many nervs in the last month and the Clans many buffs (and still crying for more)

I want to play with my Clan-Mechs too!
Why do not get complete rid of the last loyalist units? And why not mix? When 4/4 of the population are mercs and 0/4 are loyalist... no one cares. Everyone can play with the mechs they want, everywhere against.... someone. And let us call this "Merc Wars" or "Big Robot Shooting Each Other Without A Reason"

Edited by draiocht, 09 July 2016 - 10:38 AM.
edited out vulgarity

[Bud Crue]

von Haudegen, on 02 June 2016 - 07:48 AM, said:

Why do not get complete rid of the last loyalist units? And why not mix? When 4/4 of the population are mercs and 0/4 are loyalist... no one cares. Everyone can play with the mechs they want, everywhere against.... someone. And let us call this "Merc Wars" or "Big Robot Shooting Each Other Without A Reason"

Sorry, but I think we are for all intent and purpose already there.

As far as I can tell forcing people to wait 7 days to switch tech, as opposed to doing it at will, is essentially the only distinction that CW has over QP, at least as far as the lore flavor of the game goes.

Seriously we may as well just dump the idea of making people wait to switch mechs and let em do it at will. I mean would losing that "distinction" do any more harm than P3 did to population numbers? If we were at 10% playing CW before P3, what do you suppose it is now (for invasion)? I just don't see allowing folks, most of whom according to your analysis play as mercs anyway, to choose tech at will would hurt the CW game mode more than what has already been done.

[nehebkau]

Bud Crue, on 02 June 2016 - 09:27 AM, said:

Seriously we may as well just dump the idea of making people wait to switch mechs and let em do it at will. I mean would losing that "distinction" do any more harm than P3 did to population numbers? If we were at 10% playing CW before P3, what do you suppose it is now (for invasion)? I just don't see allowing folks, most of whom according to your analysis play as mercs anyway, to choose tech at will would hurt the CW game mode more than what has already been done.

OMG! HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST THIS! THE LORE MAN! THE LORE! WE MUST WORSHIP THE LORE!

There are so many GOOD reasons for freeing up mechs and only ONE reason not to.... sadly that one reason is the MWO equivalent of accepting that the universe is more than 3000 years old.

[Bud Crue]

nehebkau, on 02 June 2016 - 10:30 AM, said:

OMG! HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST THIS! THE LORE MAN! THE LORE! WE MUST WORSHIP THE LORE!

There are so many GOOD reasons for freeing up mechs and only ONE reason not to.... sadly that one reason is the MWO equivalent of accepting that the universe is more than 3000 years old.

I used to really love playing CW, but now it is a ghost town. If sacrifice of this particular aspect of what little "lore" is left could get more people playing, then so be it (not saying it would or wouldn't, just that I am open to the idea) .

I think the way PGI has essentially ignored the lore (I've stated many times that the only real lore this game has is what the player brings to it) is to a small extent why we are where we are (Where is the immersive interactive universe they promised? Oh, this is it. 15MC for taking a planet is the immersion. Joy.). So, if this is as good as it gets, then I just figure there is no longer any reason to not just chuck what little distinguishing "lore" between QP and CW is left and see what happens. Can't see how it would actually matter.

That said, I came to this game ONLY because of the promise that it was "A BattleTech Game", but it really isn't and perhaps never really was. So yeah, I used to care about the lore. Now I just hope CW survives.

[MischiefSC]

Sader325, on 02 June 2016 - 05:29 AM, said:

Why go loyalist? Because as a loyalist you get to own territory. Mercs get to be a driving force that can help decide conflicts. Hiring mercenaries becomes an increasingly powerful tool because they are able to field mechs from both sides.

There's a reason i said the game mode needs to be fixed before this is implemented, something you seem to have not noticed I said.

There needs to be powerful incentives (not MC, really meaty strategy elements) to owning planets and territory. If these incentives exist than mercenaries would need an equally powerful incentive to not be loyalist.

The game mode needs true incentives while also creating a true tangible difference between mercs and loyalists.

Mercs being able to use any mechs, and loyalists getting real planetary incentives would make this work.

Stop thinking in terms of our current game mode, because our current game mode is trash.

Doesn't matter what the incentives are.

The only difference between Clan and IS is mechs. That's it. You remove that and you remove any remaining semblance of difference between factions.

Also "having your own territory" is not and never will be a perk. If you're in a faction you're stuck there. Action somewhere else? Want to play your Clan/IS mech? Too bad. You are only right here.

Mercs need absolutely no incentive. None. No perk, no benefit, nothing. People would play them because they want to move around, play where they want and what they want. If loyalists made way more money and otherwise had every single advatage save the ability to move around the merc population would decline only a little.

I'm game for a ton of changes in FW. However letting mercs (or anyone) mix tech is a bridge too far. It eliminates the only actual distinction between Clan/IS and the only real drawbacks to picking one vs the other. Absolutely irrelevant of any other changes you make in FW if you let people mix tech on decks you really, really should just chuck FW and put the maps/modes in QP and let people drop with whatever and under the matchmaker because you've eliminated the only tiny relevance that exists between factions.

That isn't CW "surviving". Mixing tech is just putting it down and making it a QP environment.

[Carl Vickers]

Tarl Cabot, on 01 June 2016 - 11:45 PM, said:

The url is mwomercs.com Does that count?

I see what you did there, well played.

Edited by Carl Vickers, 02 June 2016 - 05:39 PM.

[Bud Crue]

MischiefSC, on 02 June 2016 - 12:36 PM, said:

That isn't CW "surviving". Mixing tech is just putting it down and making it a QP environment.

Yes, that is exactly what it would do. How's the population in QP vs CW?

I think it is absurd that this is what it has come to, but that question gets to the heart of the matter. Folks are complaining about "54 minute wait" times for a match, etc. Some factions are essentially non-existent. I don't think it makes much difference anymore what the mercs or loyalists are dropping in if hardly anyone is playing the mode in the first place.

This is all acedemic anyway, but I think that if such a change got the population up or attracted some of the QP players, then why not? It would be better than the status quo. Or PGI could fix this. Both ideas seem just as unlikely.

[MischiefSC]

Son the solution to fixing FW is not and never was "make it more like QP" but always make it LESS like QP. More depth, more content, etc.

[Bud Crue]

MischiefSC, on 02 June 2016 - 05:46 PM, said:

Son the solution to fixing FW is not and never was "make it more like QP" but always make it LESS like QP. More depth, more content, etc.

Oh I agree. But if no one is playing with all this great P3 content and depth, something would seem to be wrong. No?
I'd be up for anything at this point if I though it would attract more players.

[Kael Posavatz]

I like this idea.

As PGI is pro-merc this will help encourage all those 'loyalists' to become mercs too.

[MischiefSC]

Bud Crue, on 02 June 2016 - 06:28 PM, said:

Oh I agree. But if no one is playing with all this great P3 content and depth, something would seem to be wrong. No?
I'd be up for anything at this point if I though it would attract more players.

Put all the content in QP. This let's people learn and practice in a casual environment.

Add all the complexity stuff discussed ad nauseum in other threads.

Make FW flat out pay better and being a loyalist like 20% more profitable than QP.

Boom. Better for everyone.

[Kin3ticX]

if it was done to limited # of mechs, maybe it would be okay, for example, it should have to tie into certain planets to make it cool


just blanket allowing all mechs seems kinda lame


but howabout just "wanna buy a mechpack?" and forget it

[Cy Mitchell]

My thought is they should combine all the clans into one faction and combine all the houses in to one faction. Let everyone keep there Clan or House designation but all Clan members can group up to attack or defend or scout and all IS Houses can do the same. Designate hot spots with a few worlds that are under siege on any given night along a section of IS/Clan border.

You could still leave a challenge mode so an IS house or unit could fight another IS unit or a Clan could fight another Clan. Mercs could ally with either side but in my opinion they should not be able to flip flop and destroy the balance between Clan and IS so easily as they do now. I would like to see them have to commit to one side or the other for at least 30 days at a time.

Allow all the active Clans or Houses to share in the rewards from all the worlds they control. These funds could be dispersed to the players in the form of game rewards as they participate in attacks or defenses of planets and scouting missions. If you are a Clanner or a Spheriod but you are not participating in FP for one reason or another then you will not be reaping rewards.

On the original topic. If you are going to let Mercs use mixed tech then Clan and IS should both do the same. At this point they have both captured Mechs from each other. But I would rather see them do something like I suggested above and keep the Tech separated.

Edited by Rampage, 02 June 2016 - 08:26 PM.

[Czarr]

how bout making FP matter, like sarna has an entire wealth of info where each mech is produce, capture a certain planet....you get to use that mech

[nehebkau]

MischiefSC, on 02 June 2016 - 05:46 PM, said:

Son the solution to fixing FW is not and never was "make it more like QP" but always make it LESS like QP. More depth, more content, etc.

Bud Crue, on 02 June 2016 - 06:28 PM, said:

Oh I agree. But if no one is playing with all this great P3 content and depth, something would seem to be wrong. No?
I'd be up for anything at this point if I though it would attract more players.

Yes, I agree as well. I think PGI is so focused on the e-sports stuff that they just don't have the ability to generate positive ideas for increasing the play-ability and enjoy-ability of FW. FW had the potential to be the real meat of the game drawing in players and holding their attention -- now it's just WaitWarrior Online.

[CK16]

Yes just remove all restrictions from being a merc, let it be a totally hindering idea to even think faction loyalty cause if I go Merc I can drop anywhere, anytime,with anything just let me go beat up smaller factions with bad pugs...


No, tech division stays, maybe come tech/time jump we get something or mixed tech, but lets.be honest here, that should be a house thing not a merc thing. Mercs rarely ran the best,most up to date designs. They would go for affordable and works.....Only in a few cases did larger well known units get the nice stuff, average mercs used what they could afford, meaning small businesses small bank accounts.

[Bud Crue]

CK16, on 03 June 2016 - 06:16 AM, said:

Yes just remove all restrictions from being a merc, let it be a totally hindering idea to even think faction loyalty cause if I go Merc I can drop anywhere, anytime,with anything just let me go beat up smaller factions with bad pugs...

Isn't all of that true now? Only limit is the 7 day wait. When people still played CW, MS and other large units got accused of doing exactly what you describe here. I don't see why people are so attached to the 7 day limit on this behavior.

CK16, on 03 June 2016 - 06:16 AM, said:

No, tech division stays, maybe come tech/time jump we get something or mixed tech, but lets.be honest here, that should be a house thing not a merc thing. Mercs rarely ran the best,most up to date designs. They would go for affordable and works.....Only in a few cases did larger well known units get the nice stuff, average mercs used what they could afford, meaning small businesses small bank accounts.

This is a nice thought but it doesn't reflect the game we are playing. Everyone brings whatever mech they want. Mercs are certainly NOT more limited in the actual game. It is only loyalists that can't bring their alternative tech. Mercs can and do bring whatever they want, they just have a 7 day wait to switch.

Edited by Bud Crue, 03 June 2016 - 07:26 AM.