88 replies to this topic

[ScoutMaster]

There is absolutely no reason to run anything else but the SMN-D variant, it has 2 extra quirks in its center torso ( not talking about the 8 piece bonus ) : +5% reverse speed and +9 extra torso turn angle.

The B only has 1 less quirk because it has the +5% reverse speed as well.

Now you're probably thinking "but wut about the 8 piece bonus scout?"

First of all, chances are you don't plan on using all 8 correspondant omnipods for hardpoints. And secondly you wouldn't sacrifice quirks like +15 structure in the torsos for some silly AMS rate of fire quirks just so you can get that 2.5% accel/deccel quirk.

I'm stuck with 3 summoners and only the D is outfitted because if I outfitted the others I would be missing out on free quirks. I feel like I should sell them and get another D variant or something...

It's little things like these that don't make any sense that make me wonder if PGI actually gives a bologne sandwhich about this game.

Poor suckoner

[Malachy Karrde]

I run a prime with both the plus structure torsos. I use an lbx 10 in 1 arm and an Er Ppc in the other with a lrm 10 and 1 ton of ammo in the shoulder. This mech is tough as nails, does alot of damage, and is fast and maneuverable as all get out. I really don't see why people whine about the summoner. It's one of the best omni mech out there. I wish I had 1 more ton free for more ammo for my lrm, but hey, it's got to have some drawbacks. I love my dire wolf, but the summoner is quickly becoming my second favorite ride.

[Navid A1]

That has always been an issue with many mechs

PGI outright does not understand how omni mechs work.

The mech IS the CT. If you give superior quirks to a certain CT, you auto-invalidate every other variant.


For example, WHK-Prime, IFR-Prime and DWF-Prime, all need some sort of incentive with CT quirks, because those are the inferior versions.

[ScoutMaster]

Malachy Karrde, on 23 April 2016 - 10:19 PM, said:

I run a prime with both the plus structure torsos. I use an lbx 10 in 1 arm and an Er Ppc in the other with a lrm 10 and 1 ton of ammo in the shoulder. This mech is tough as nails, does alot of damage, and is fast and maneuverable as all get out. I really don't see why people whine about the summoner. It's one of the best omni mech out there. I wish I had 1 more ton free for more ammo for my lrm, but hey, it's got to have some drawbacks. I love my dire wolf, but the summoner is quickly becoming my second favorite ride.

Is this real life? Did you even read my post? By running the prime instead of the D variant, you're losing out on +5% reverse speed and +9 torso turn angle. There is NO reason for you to be running the prime.

Edited by ScoutMaster, 23 April 2016 - 10:56 PM.

[Dee Eight]

Navid A1, on 23 April 2016 - 10:24 PM, said:

That has always been an issue with many mechs

PGI outright does not understand how omni mechs work.

The mech IS the CT. If you give superior quirks to a certain CT, you auto-invalidate every other variant.


For example, WHK-Prime, IFR-Prime and DWF-Prime, all need some sort of incentive with CT quirks, because those are the inferior versions.

They may be learning slowly since the kitfoxes and several other lights had their leg/side torso structure quirks moved to the center pod.

[Volthorne]

ScoutMaster, on 23 April 2016 - 10:56 PM, said:

Is this real life? Did you even read my post? By running the prime instead of the D variant, you're losing out on +5% reverse speed and +9 torso turn angle. There is NO reason for you to be running the prime.

Whoopee! A WHOLE 5% extra velocity in reverse: the direction you only go if you're already a dead man/woman/pilot. AND it gets and extra 9^o twist to each side? Oh happy day, I can at long last be slightly-better-but-not-really than average!

Get real. Those quirks are worthless, and literally everyone knows it but you; one of them is approaching not-suck, but didn't quite make it. The real quirks for the suckonner are in the side torsos and arms, not the CT.

Edited by Volthorne, 23 April 2016 - 11:22 PM.

[Dee Eight]

Being the owner of hellbringers... I could only dream of having a quirk at all...

[Cyborne Elemental]

Its the same deal with the Nova, one variant has +16 CT structure where the rest have 12. its a little thing, but you start adding up those little things and it makes a difference.

[ScoutMaster]

Volthorne, on 23 April 2016 - 11:19 PM, said:

Whoopee! A WHOLE 5% extra velocity in reverse: the direction you only go if you're already a dead man/woman/pilot. AND it gets and extra 9^o twist to each side? Oh happy day, I can at long last be slightly-better-but-not-really than average!

Get real. Those quirks are worthless, and literally everyone knows it but you; one of them is approaching not-suck, but didn't quite make it. The real quirks for the suckonner are in the side torsos and arms, not the CT.

Why so mad? Let me guess, the other account is your clan alt? There is no logic in your argument, the D is still superior to the prime, PERIOD. 9 degrees torso twist can mean the difference between a good shot and a miss when you're shooting someone to your side while running.

[Deathlike]

I wouldn't call it a "problem", but our balance overlord is "Guinness brilliant".

In the same mech, the Summoner-B's Left Torso is superior to the Summoner-Prime's Left torso... and it has AMS to boot! Improved spread doesn't outweigh durability. Ironically, the Summoner-D's Left Torso does have AMS, but unless you're committing to the dakka slot as well (you could use the Summoner-D's Right Torso easily enough), you are better off with more protection AND the missile hardpoint!

The Summoner-Prime's Right Torso is pointless... when you have buffs in the Summoner-B's Right Torso OR the Summoner-C's Right Torso.

I believe I've written about this before, but to no avail... so.. you can thank our balance overlord.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__5026757

[Lykaon]

ScoutMaster, on 23 April 2016 - 10:56 PM, said:

Is this real life? Did you even read my post? By running the prime instead of the D variant, you're losing out on +5% reverse speed and +9 torso turn angle. There is NO reason for you to be running the prime.

So what? use the D with the exact same loadout. You can only pilot ONE mech at a time anyhow so how is this really an issue?

Inner Sphere pilots have had this issue since day one. There is always an inferior variant that needs to be elited just so you can master the good one you intend to actually pilot.

But, with an Omni mech you do not have to worry about grinding XP on a chassis with rubbish quirks AND rubbish hardpoints.

The only time it really maters is IF you intend to use multiple mechs of the same type in the same drop deck. And when that happens BUY ANOTHER. Inner Sphere pilots need to do this so...why not Clan pilots?

[Lightfoot]

My fix for the Summoner at this point, two years since release, is to just over-quirk it until it is popular, then tone it down if needed. Mostly for the lore role it needs to be tough and a good short range mech. It will always be taking more damage than other mechs due to the very low arm weapons.

[Malachy Karrde]

ScoutMaster, on 23 April 2016 - 10:56 PM, said:

Is this real life? Did you even read my post? By running the prime instead of the D variant, you're losing out on +5% reverse speed and +9 torso turn angle. There is NO reason for you to be running the prime.

prime has a 30 percent chill bonus. I don't back up enough to need an extra 5 percent Reverse, and the summoner has enough torso twist stock that those quirks are pretty irrelevant. I'm willing to bet that neither quirk has saved anyone from an untimely demise.

[Pariah Devalis]

Mister D, on 24 April 2016 - 12:23 AM, said:

Its the same deal with the Nova, one variant has +16 CT structure where the rest have 12. its a little thing, but you start adding up those little things and it makes a difference.

The loyalty variant also has +12 armor in each ST omnipod. That said, it's at a direct tradeoff with the Prime's 4% per side torso heat generation quirk, so at least there's a little bit of a tradeoff there....

[Chados]

Malachy Karrde, on 23 April 2016 - 10:19 PM, said:

I run a prime with both the plus structure torsos. I use an lbx 10 in 1 arm and an Er Ppc in the other with a lrm 10 and 1 ton of ammo in the shoulder. This mech is tough as nails, does alot of damage, and is fast and maneuverable as all get out. I really don't see why people whine about the summoner. It's one of the best omni mech out there. I wish I had 1 more ton free for more ammo for my lrm, but hey, it's got to have some drawbacks. I love my dire wolf, but the summoner is quickly becoming my second favorite ride.

It's my go-to group queue mech. I have it in modified lore config, ER PPC, LRM15, uAC10. It's real ammo limited but it can run, jump, and fight hard. I like it, and it can do it all, especially given that Clan LRMs work at all ranges.

[MechWarrior5152251]

I run the prime because I have the Hero invasion mech... Would love to have better CT quirks

The only competitive build for the Summoner is 5 SSRM6. Makes wasting 5 tons on jump jets somewhat useful.

[Bishop Steiner]

Chados, on 24 April 2016 - 06:33 AM, said:

It's my go-to group queue mech. I have it in modified lore config, ER PPC, LRM15, uAC10. It's real ammo limited but it can run, jump, and fight hard. I like it, and it can do it all, especially given that Clan LRMs work at all ranges.

Yeah I still r run mine with stock armor, too. If rolls damage rather well, I fact oddly I don't seem to last longer in my up armored versions.

[Coolant]

Summoner needs an extra beam weapon hardpoint and higher mounted weapons as it always has.

[Kubernetes]

Volthorne, on 23 April 2016 - 11:19 PM, said:

Whoopee! A WHOLE 5% extra velocity in reverse: the direction you only go if you're already a dead man/woman/pilot. AND it gets and extra 9^o twist to each side? Oh happy day, I can at long last be slightly-better-but-not-really than average!

Um, what? +9 torso twist angle is not insignificant on any mech aside from Urbies. The quirk is helpful if you run a poptart with an ERPPC in each arm--no lower actuators, so any bonus twist angle is a big plus.

Personally, I have no issue with omnimech CTs having different quirks. At least it gives you some variability when mastering a chassis. If all the CTs are the same, I invariably end up running the same loadout on all three.

[QuantumButler]

The Summoner needs Hunchback 4sp tier megaquirks to not be a trash robot.