28 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

had a Much more well thought out topic on the Matter,
clicked Post, but PGI logged me, due to taking too long,
so i kinda lost Everything i Wrote, abit Annoyed,

!!!SO HERES THE SHORT SHORT VERSION!!!

most people put weapons in the STs before the arms,
WHY? because STs are Safer for weapons(not Gauss),
this is because they can Be twisted to Spread Damage more,
and Arms can be used for Shielding them in allot of Cases,

so this comes to My idea
what if when you Move your Torso weapons Bob with your Mechs Stride?
when i say bob i mean a gently up/down movement as your mech takes a Step,
this happens as your Legs are attached to the Waist then Torso of the Mech,
-
your arms wouldnt bob of course because they have Things to prevent Bobing,
such as Shock-Absorbers Actuators and Stabilizers built into the arm,

(the Bobbing is only Vertical, Up and Down)

in this way Torso weapons are more protected but harder to use wail moving,
Arm weapons are more Exposed but dont Bob so they are better for Gunning,

this also will break up the PinPoint Alpha some,
not by much but perhaps enough to see some Play change?
also this may add some immersion to you Immersion Types,

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks,

Edit- Pic Added

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 02 May 2016 - 04:43 PM.

[Funkmaster Rick]

The legs have similar shock-dampening systems, and the hips come with a gyroscope that is very important to maintaining stability while walking. Lots of systems specifically designed to stop the things you're talking about. Of course, that didn't always stop some people from putting SRM launchers on the legs of some 'mechs, but for the most part the lore has systems designed to deal with the expected walking motion of a battlemech.

[Andi Nagasia]

Funkmaster Rick, on 01 May 2016 - 06:37 PM, said:

The legs have similar shock-dampening systems, and the hips come with a gyroscope that is very important to maintaining stability while walking. Lots of systems specifically designed to stop the things you're talking about. Of course, that didn't always stop some people from putting SRM launchers on the legs of some 'mechs, but for the most part the lore has systems designed to deal with the expected walking motion of a battlemech.

the Idea is
(Legs(Shock Dampaning) to (Waist), to (Torso), would still Bob if nothing else then just abit,
Much more than (Legs) to (Waist) to (Torso) to (Shoulders) to (Arms) being much more Stable,

we can Assume that a Human is More Flexible/Maneuverable than a BattleMech,
-
Try Holding a Laser Light to your Torso, and walk across the Room aiming it at something,
(no matter how Skilled you are, if your holding it against you it will bob up and down)
-
do the same Test but with the Laser in your hand, very very little bobbing,

the idea is give us a reason to Mount Weapons in our Arms,
as well as Lower the Accuracy of Alphas when Running at Full Speed,

[Impyrium]

It would be better, I think, just to have reticle bobbing full stop regardless of location. Having two different reticles might become a little confusing for a lot of players, plus I suspect it'd lead to more hit-reg problems (I think a single convergence point helps HSR a lot, which sucks, because I'd like delayed convergence back).

[AdrenaHawk]

I'm sure no one wants this, but how about if torso mounted weapons have zero convergence, simply firing straight from their hardpoints, while arm mounted weapons have our current perfect convergence. Suddenly arm mounted weapons become EXTREMELY useful. Now if you don't mind, I'll be putting on my fireproof suit before the realism police, the skill police, and the lore police arrive to lynch me.

[Chuck Jager]

Sad thing is my full suspension mountain bike from 2010 era levels out my movement over bumps and drops. I also know modern tanks do an incredible job of leveling out weapons shake on main gun while moving. Of course in most sports and combat you strive to gain the upper hand with tech. I guess games need to be balanced.

PS I am not sure what side of the argument I just took.

[SirNotlag]

idea isn't terrible but as a light pilot, the smaller mechs have to keep moving to stay alive and reducing their accuracy would really reduce their usefulness.

[thehiddenedge]

Not a bad idea honestly. We already have the separate reticles. They would just need to apply the third person bobbing motion to the one for torso weapons. It would make arms a bit more useful and it would help mitigate the single pixel alpha damage while moving, which I find totally unrealistic on a bipedal platform. Yes, I know there are tanks and wheeled vehicles that can shoot with high accuracy on the move, but they are usually only firing one weapon system, not 4-12 at the same time and are also inherently more stable platforms. I find the idea reminiscent of the stand/walk/run fire mechanic of most FPS's and people have learned to adapt to that.

Dingo Red, on 01 May 2016 - 08:29 PM, said:

It would be better, I think, just to have reticle bobbing full stop regardless of location. Having two different reticles might become a little confusing for a lot of players, plus I suspect it'd lead to more hit-reg problems (I think a single convergence point helps HSR a lot, which sucks, because I'd like delayed convergence back).

Kinda like the two separate reticles we have now? I understand it would be a bit different, but not by so much. Hit reg shouldn't be much an issue as we can currently aim at and hit two separate targets. It's not useful very often, but I have done it a couple times to fight off a pair of mechs. Will agree with you that some people would be confused though, but meh..

Don't mind me though, I'm one of those grumpy people that wants to get rid of arm lock even though I use it all the time.

Edited by thehiddenedge, 02 May 2016 - 12:58 AM.

[LordNothing]

my rule of thumb is to put weapons in as many sections as possible. i want the enemy to have to shoot off 3 or 4 parts before i cant fight. some are even zombies that can still fight with just a ct and some legs. i tend to put the shorter range stuff in the arms if at all possible. since those are the weapons that tend to need the most vertical travel.

[Andi Nagasia]

SirNotlag, on 01 May 2016 - 09:45 PM, said:

idea isn't terrible but as a light pilot, the smaller mechs have to keep moving to stay alive and reducing their accuracy would really reduce their usefulness.

as smaller mechs you can get closer and Brawl the Bobbing wouldnt hinder you too much as its only up/down,
this would hurt the 400-600m Alpha Sprinter, as they would have lessened Convergence at Faster Speeds,

Added Picture to OP, so people can see what i mean,
the Bobbing would be Slight just enough to Lessen the Alpha Rush meta,
Edit- Spelling

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 02 May 2016 - 04:47 PM.

[GreyNovember]

Your bob seems to exceed the shake for JJs and Masc when you take it to light speeds.

This is troubling. Varying aim that much is the difference between circling the Dire whale and coring it out, versus circling the direwhale, and spreading my laser fire from his leg, to his ST, to his CT, to his arm.

[Dirty Starfish]

GreyNovember, on 02 May 2016 - 08:11 PM, said:

Your bob seems to exceed the shake for JJs and Masc when you take it to light speeds.

This is troubling. Varying aim that much is the difference between circling the Dire whale and coring it out, versus circling the direwhale, and spreading my laser fire from his leg, to his ST, to his CT, to his arm.

You can see how this would work out if you switch to third person view, where the reticle bobs for whatever reason. It seems pretty reasonable and seeing as how most lights run arm mounted weapons anyway this wouldn't change much.

[Andi Nagasia]

Dirty Starfish, on 02 May 2016 - 08:53 PM, said:

You can see how this would work out if you switch to third person view, where the reticle bobs for whatever reason. It seems pretty reasonable and seeing as how most lights run arm mounted weapons anyway this wouldn't change much.

thats the idea,

[PhoenixFire55]

It's been suggested over and over and over and its pointless.

PGI has already said that they will not implement any kind of convergence because server side calculating of it will be too much for their backwater servers.

The actual reasons for not doing it are different, starting with game becoming too skill-oriented and shrinking the already non-existant population even further and ending with their devs team simply not capable of doing it.

Also ...

Andi Nagasia, on 01 May 2016 - 07:52 PM, said:

Try Holding a Laser Light to your Torso, and walk across the Room aiming it at something,
(no matter how Skilled you are, if your holding it against you it will bob up and down)

Attach a big enough gyroscope to it and it'll be perfectly steady. Physics OP plz nerf.

[Red Shrike]

AdrenaHawk, on 01 May 2016 - 08:57 PM, said:

I'm sure no one wants this, but how about if torso mounted weapons have zero convergence, simply firing straight from their hardpoints, while arm mounted weapons have our current perfect convergence. Suddenly arm mounted weapons become EXTREMELY useful.

This.

Obviously the hate from the rest of the forum would be enough to melt tungsten. (Melting point 3695 K ​(3422 °C, ​6192 °F))

[Dakkss]

This, as others have mentioned, has been brought up many times and it gets shot down by whiners for one reason:
"OMG A MODERN DAY TANK CAN FIRE IT'S WEAPON DOING 100KPH IN MID AIR AND ACCURATELY HIT IT'S TARGET SO WHY SHOULDN'T THE SUPER ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY 1500 YEARS FROM NOW"

This ignores:
-Modern tanks are maximum 3 metres tall, Battlemechs are anywhere between 8 to 20 metres tall.
-Modern tanks have a single main weapon, Battlemechs have anywhere between 1 to 12.
-Battlemechs WALK at the same speeds MBTs can drive. That is a significant amount of movement for a ~14m tall machine and I doubt gyroscopes could fully remove ALL bouncy movement on the torso/arms like MWO would have you believe.
-The lore stating that Battlemechs are typically hand-me-down, aging, poorly maintained rare technology
-The lore stating that Mechwarriors need an insane amount of skill to accurately hit the same spot due to ****** targeting computers and (likely) non-converging torso weapons, recoil, speed and stability. There is nowhere in lore that states that weapons converge OR that the average pilot had good gunnery skills.
-Game balance. Things like recoil, non-converged weapons and reticle bob would squash the pinpoint alpha problem. More skill.

[Andi Nagasia]

i still think this could be an Interesting Addition,
getting weapons out of the STs and into the Arms,
also helping raise TTK if nothing but Else but by a Tiny Bit,

[Nightmare1]

Convergence would break this game. That being said, a gentle bob wouldn't be too bad. We used to have such things, but they broke the game. I miss the movement bob, knock-downs, and misalignments.

[Andi Nagasia]

Nightmare1, on 29 June 2016 - 05:05 PM, said:

Convergence would break this game. That being said, a gentle bob wouldn't be too bad. We used to have such things, but they broke the game. I miss the movement bob, knock-downs, and misalignments.

Well IK is coming back Next Patch, so Movement Bob May come Back Next,

[Nightmare1]

Andi Nagasia, on 29 June 2016 - 05:11 PM, said:

Well IK is coming back Next Patch, so Movement Bob May come Back Next,

What I really want though is knock-downs!