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Mine Layer


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#1 McMurl

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 10:55 PM

Disclaimer: im aware that a form of mech based mine layer doesnt exist in the BTU except in the form of thunder munitions. i am also aware that this is probably a really dumb idea, just wanted to throw it into the wind.

tl;dr:
-Mine layer, either missile hardpoint or new hardpoint
-Only damages legs
-Moderate damage to armored legs
-Massive damage to unarmored legs
-Map-based light camouflage
-To be used on all light mechs, fast mediums and other under performing mechs
-Strict range mechanics, can only be deployed under 100m-150m
-Small trip range 25-50m
-Small blast radius 25-50m
-Ammo can explode
-New tactics, freshens up the game, other arguments blah blah blah.
-TO RE-EMPHASIZE: EVERYONE WILL BE ABLE TO SPOT THE MINES AS LONG AS THEY ARE LOOKING FOR THEM, THEY WILL NOT BE DIFFICULT TO SPOT.

So there havent been any new weapons added to the game since the clan mechs came out, and even then i wouldnt really consider their new weapons to be completely new weapons. But there is a massive balance extravaganza that PGI has to go through if they ever wanted to add new weapons. However, now that PGI has announced that they will be completely rewriting the 'explosives' code (this code pertains to Arty and Air strikes, as well as the new Long Tom FP mechanic) this gave me an idea: Mine Laying equipment. Now im not gonna get into any specific numbers and damage with this weapon because im not a game dev, but i will go over some ideas:

Have it be semi noticeable, with maybe a light per-map self camouflager (this camouflage would be very basic, like on the bog it would a shade of green, on alpine it would be faded white. This would prevent them sticking out like a sore thumb at 1000m+ range on maps like alpine where a basic black color would be noticeable from the moon)

Have it either be a missile-type weapon or introduce its own weapon/utility hardpoint. The missile hardpoint path would limit it to some mechs, which may be a good idea, and it would help take away from the death alpha. The new utility path could be applied to any mechs that PGI deems fit for the role.

It would require ammo, as is usual, but to prevent huge minefields becoming a thing, maybe give the launcher limited ammo slots, identical to how bigger engines work with heatsink slots, and prevent mine ammunition from being stored elsewhere in the mech. Ammo would also be able to detonate from crits.

They would have a small blast radius and would only damage the legs. They would also have a small 'trip' radius, so like you'd have to get within 25 or 50m from the things. could also play with a small, medium, large minelayer idea, the bigger the mine layer, the bigger the mines, more damage, more noticeable, etc.

They would do MASSIVE damage to legs with no armor remaining, as in blowing off a freshly stripped leg of any mech (but only 1 leg at a time, to prevent some imbalance, and not doing any damage transfer to the corresponding torso, have the damage scale per mech, if there was only 1 kind of mine) Mines would do basic damage to legs with armor, lets say 20, but can be applied to both legs.

Also mines would use the NARC/LRM mechanics in terms of how they are deployed. They would have a max range of 150m from the mech that is firing them. anything fired outside the 150m range would behave like IS LRMs when they hit something inside that 180m max limit, they would arc down and then tumble away, being destroyed. This would prevent long range mine laying because thats stupid and no one wants that. (PS: i hope this part makes sense, ill revise if needed)

Now for some tactics. First, i like the create a new utility slot idea. that way mechs like the Vindi, MLX, LCT, IFR and most, if not all lights can be a bit more useful without having to rely on mega quirks. Some other mechs, like the SMN, or other mechs that might have to rely on massive quirks can use them as well. Also, this post was initially posted in the feature suggestion area of the forums, but those forums dont seem to get alot of viewership, so im deleting that post and moving it here. You know, until the mods move it back Posted Image

Second, the obvious tactics involved with mines would freshen things up. Setting up traps, blocking passageways, using them as a tool to assist you when you need to flee, forcing your pursuer to have to either stop to destroy the mine or just stop chasing you in general, etc. There are alot of cool things that mines could bring, and alot of the mechs that cant stack up with their similar weight counterparts can be of more use. I think that most, if not all light mechs should be able to lay down mines, just to give them that touch of uniqueness that they desperately deserve and need.

I know that this was a long read, and i appreciate those who read it through. Please know that yes, this could be the stupidest idea ever, but meh, who cares, mine laying would be cool. and think of the new modules and pilot skills that could come out of it? Mine sweeping radar, extra range launchers, ammo count modules, better concealment modules, etc.

Edited by grievoussmaug, 03 May 2016 - 01:16 AM.


#2 Robot Kenshiro

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 11:08 PM

As much as i want new weapons and such and the minelayer does sound awesome. All i can say about this is that balancing this would become the next nerf. Light mech pilots would complain. Comp players would complain...etc etc would complain.... you know what i mean.
While I think it would be cool for certain mechs to use this weapon to mine off a certain areas or passes where enemies regularly engage. Would create more depth and more tactical decisions in where ppl move. Be great for assault game mode or even conquest where you can mine the **** out of the capture area and at least knownits somewhat protected.

#3 McMurl

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 11:16 PM

exactly. and if specific mechs had them instead of all mechs, people might start bringing other mechs. it would be cool seeing mechs that arent black knights and timberwolves :P

#4 El Bandito

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 11:21 PM

I remember the JF dropship mission in MW4 Mercs. Those mines were effective in dealing damage to my legs when I was occupied with the enemy. Mines would have my vote for MWO.

#5 Robot Kenshiro

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 11:21 PM

Lol yea. Not only that.. we wont have lets go to D3 or whatever location thats the same....all..the...time.

#6 Ryllen Kriel

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 11:23 PM

I'd rather have a Mime Layer. It would drop hostile Mimes that would lock invisible doors for the enemies to find their way around, or make them walk against the wind. Then you wouldn't have to worry about all the broken walk meshes on maps in the game, just blame it on the Mimes!

#7 Robot Kenshiro

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 11:27 PM

View PostRyllen Kriel, on 02 May 2016 - 11:23 PM, said:

I'd rather have a Mime Layer. It would drop hostile Mimes that would lock invisible doors for the enemies to find their way around, or make them walk against the wind. Then you wouldn't have to worry about all the broken walk meshes on maps in the game, just blame it on the Mimes!


Lolz!!

#8 Aresye

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 12:03 AM

View PostRobot Kenshiro, on 02 May 2016 - 11:08 PM, said:

Light mech pilots would complain. Comp players would complain...

Light pilots definitely would complain, but I don't think many comp players would be opposed to the idea of having some sort of mine laying consumable/hardpoint.

Comp play is becoming more popular. More and more teams are signing up for MRBC, the world championships have over 200 registered teams, and I believe this surge in popularity is due to having more mechs and play styles viable. It's no longer a bunch of poptarting victors and highlanders.

Being able to lay mines in order to protect flanks, discourage deathballs, etc, then that would open up a whole bunch of new possibilities, deepening the overall level of strategy and tactics teams can use.

Trust me, comp players get tired of the meta too. More options = happier comp scene.

#9 adamts01

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 12:17 AM

View PostAresye, on 03 May 2016 - 12:03 AM, said:

Trust me, comp players get tired of the meta too. More options = happier comp scene.
Funny, because that's all they run in solo que too.... The best are good no matter what, the rest are afraid to look bad. Nothing but meta meta meta meta meta

#10 Dogstar

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 01:39 AM

As a consumable I'd be all in favour of mines, in effect it would be like a delayed artillery strike that goes off when a 'mech comes within x meters of the marker.

That would make for some very interesting tactical options without needing to break the lore by adding a mine layer weapon.

#11 Karl Marlow

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 02:11 AM

It's kinda bad when the tl;dr version is tl;dr

#12 adamts01

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 02:21 AM

I brought up this exact thing a while back. There's nothing new on here. Deathballs aren't really the problem anymore, and it wouldn't really change the peek-a-boo-alpha gameplay, but it might keep teams from always walking the exact same path every damn time. Light goes out, places mine along the enemy's right corridor = **** tons of hits. the lemmings need to be untrained.

#13 Foxtrot four eight

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 02:25 AM

I have no problem with a mine layer but a mine detector should be introduced as a counter. There should also be a way to breach the minefield, something like a MICLIC (e.g. Mine Clearing Line Charge).

#14 adamts01

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 02:41 AM

View PostFoxtrot four eight, on 03 May 2016 - 02:25 AM, said:

I have no problem with a mine layer but a mine detector should be introduced as a counter. There should also be a way to breach the minefield, something like a MICLIC (e.g. Mine Clearing Line Charge).

Tie it in with BAP. Maybe within 10 or 20 meters from detonation it'll sound an alert and put up a warning. One more reason to have scouts.

As for not being in the game, just make them Thunder LRMs with an arced flight path out to 200 or 400 meters. Maybe with an arming delay so you can't just leg the light that's right on your ***.

#15 XxXAbsolutZeroXxX

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 03:55 AM

I think in previous games mines could only be triggered by vehicles heavier than 50-60 tons. Light mechs and some mediums could walk through minefields without them going off.

Minelayers might work well against teams that like to chase light mechs. The way it would work is, you would find a narrow point of a map. Stick a ton of mines in it. Have a light mech agitate the other team and run through the groove. The mechs chasing the light run into the minefield and get blown apart.

Another way mines would be functional is, if your team is pushing to the right you could lay a bunch of mines on the left side so that if the other team tries to flank and hit you from behind they walk into a minefield.

Edited by I Zeratul I, 03 May 2016 - 04:04 AM.


#16 SuomiWarder

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 05:47 AM

In concept, why not? However the way the CW - oops, I guess it is Faction Warfare now? - are laid out with those gates I can see a whole lot of mine spamming happening.

#17 adamts01

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 05:49 AM

View PostSuomiWarder, on 03 May 2016 - 05:47 AM, said:

In concept, why not? However the way the CW - oops, I guess it is Faction Warfare now? - are laid out with those gates I can see a whole lot of mine spamming happening.

Or maybe the problem was CW all along..... with stupid corridors and stupid gates and stupid generators

#18 Narcissistic Martyr

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 06:16 AM

I'm ok with thunder LRMs.

#19 Mystere

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 07:34 AM

View Postgrievoussmaug, on 02 May 2016 - 10:55 PM, said:

Mine Layer


Fughetaboutit!

The eSports types will hate it. eSports is the future and therefore is king!



<OP, I have been asking for mines for a while now. But the eSports types will have none of it!>

View PostAresye, on 03 May 2016 - 12:03 AM, said:

Light pilots definitely would complain, but I don't think many comp players would be opposed to the idea of having some sort of mine laying consumable/hardpoint.

Comp play is becoming more popular. More and more teams are signing up for MRBC, the world championships have over 200 registered teams, and I believe this surge in popularity is due to having more mechs and play styles viable. It's no longer a bunch of poptarting victors and highlanders.

Being able to lay mines in order to protect flanks, discourage deathballs, etc, then that would open up a whole bunch of new possibilities, deepening the overall level of strategy and tactics teams can use.

Trust me, comp players get tired of the meta too. More options = happier comp scene.


I have a question. How are the "comps" handling artillery and air strikes?

#20 Mechteric

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 07:39 AM

I think it would be better to be made like the arty as consumable, where you pick a spot and some artillery will drop mines in the area you indicate.





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