22 replies to this topic

[Ade the Rare]

I'm quite new to the game. I played a bunch of the academy missions so I wouldn't be a total lame duck in the field. Then I played a bunch of Quick Play games to get familiar with the mechanics of larger scale engagements. Now I'm trying out the Faction Play; the idea being to try and get as much as I can from the current event (and well done on making this kind of event!).

Anyway, I couldn't help but notice that when it comes to the Invasion and Defence missions, unless it's a premade Inner Sphere side with a large number of people from the same group, it's automatically a Clan win.

I look down the board at the start, and both sides are pugs; you think *ok this will be a fair fight*.

No. By rights it should go 50/50, maybe 60/40, but it's nearer 95/5 in favour of Clans, and I think I'm being generous there.

My understanding of it is that both sides get four drops? Wouldn't it be fairer and more balanced, and not to mention lore-friendly if Clan had less? It might also help balance it, because at the moment it looks like the reward system for Invasion/Defence in this event will basically be *give the Clan players a Warhawk after a few days*.

To be honest I really like this game. I've been a huge fan of the MW series ever since MW2 (I've even played the original), and credit to the devs for not making it into a pay-to-win monster and keeping it very much true to the original series. It's just a shame this imbalance exists, because it makes it a lot less fun to play the big faction stuff

[El Bandito]

PGI believes IS and Clans are acceptably balanced for FW. Try to join a unit and get the feel of the game better. I understand that you wish to complete the event, but as a beginner, you are most likely being a detriment to the team. And teamplay is what really matters in FW matches.

Edited by El Bandito, 03 May 2016 - 02:29 AM.

[Torric]

In matches where it is uncoordinated clan pugs vs uncoordinated IS pugs clans do have the advantage of longer range and thus better peeking/sniping capability, and better survivabilty.

And since a concentrated push (as brawling is the one thing where IS can meet clans and hope to come out ahead) rarely happens in an environment without any notable coordination, clans tend to win these pug games.

That, and scouting, which seems to favor clans (or all the good players are playing clans...), so at the very least satellite sweep with good chances of long tom on clan side on top of it.

Edited by Torric, 03 May 2016 - 03:21 AM.

[GreyNovember]

It also helps that, if you see lots of trials, your team is more likely to be on the beating end of the stick.

Odds are anyone who drops in trials does not have a sufficient drop deck, which implies not a whole lot of time in the cockpit, which in turn implies a bad time for those working with them.

[Novakaine]

Organized well led equipped squad vs. ill equipped disorganized rabble.
No contest.

[Ade the Rare]

I came out second in my last team at the end of the last match, but we still lost.

I don't think I hinder the team; it's a lot to do with positioning and *not peeking into five alpha strikes*. But yeah, clan pugs seem to always win over IS pugs. I know it's supposed to be a challenge, but it's a little too steep. I imagine there's the same skill mix in teams on Clan and IS teams on average, so I don't think it's a coincidence.

I'd rather say something and risk being slapped down for it than say nothing, and just fade away from the game. It deserves it's fan/player base. Think for one minute, if you need to have a fully coordinated team who are all familiar with the map, the tactics, have played the game for the length of time it takes to get a drop deck of fully upgraded mechs, and to all be of a certain skill level to have a chance of winning against a Clan pug, there is a lack of balance.

I'll try and join an organised team, but even that depends on them being online at the same time I am able to be, and with work commitments I can't say for sure I'd be available at set times, etc.

[PyckenZot]

In the hands of good players on both sides, IS has the upper hand.
In the hands of new players on both sides, Clan has the upper hand by the simple reason that an inexperienced IS pilot will be playing right in the hands of the Clan's strengths.

Should PGI change the mechanics of FP because of that? In no way. Before you get into FP, you get the notice that this is endgame. I admit it is sad to see your odds of getting of lot of the rewards from this event go down the drain because of this, but there will be new events. And by that time, you'll have more experience, better mechbuilding skills and possibly unit mates around you.

Keep strong soldier!

Edited by PyckenZot, 03 May 2016 - 04:57 AM.

[Ade the Rare]

Hang on, do Clan mechs come fully upgraded when bought?

[PyckenZot]

AdetheRare, on 03 May 2016 - 05:32 AM, said:

Hang on, do Clan mechs come fully upgraded when bought?

What makes you think that? But no, they don't. On the other hand, clan weapons are lighter, smaller and shoot farther than their IS counterparts. Clan double heatsinks are smaller. Clan XL engines don't blow up when 1 side torso is gone.
To counter this, clan weapons spread their damage more due to longer burn times and multishot ACs. And clan benefit way less from quirks than IS does.

In my previous post mostly the points on the weapons counted. New players tend to peek-a-boo a lot. Clans will win that contest in a vast majority of cases by simply outlazorvomitting the IS. At longer ranges,...

[Ade the Rare]

Yeah that does tend to happen. Reason I ask is because IS mechs are, well, poorly equipped until you spend a ton of C-Bills on them for structure, armor and engine upgrades to make space for anywhere near the number of weapon systems that Clan mechs do, so it'd explain the pug problem:

Vanilla Clan mechs have their upgrades (or as it turns out, smaller weapons), thus more weapons
Vanilla IS mechs are basic as hell and pack half-to-two-thirds the weaponry
So in a straight out fight, Clan will win due to just being able to field more weapons

That's why I was thinking that.

I know because I had to spend *a lot* to get my Cataphract to be anywhere near as/more effective than a Shadowcat

[Ghogiel]

Just get stuck in and get farmed until you've had your fill.

[Ade the Rare]

Ghogiel, on 03 May 2016 - 06:09 AM, said:

Just get stuck in and get farmed until you've had your fill.

Excellent. Well that sucks.

[GreyNovember]

AdetheRare, on 03 May 2016 - 06:22 AM, said:

Excellent. Well that sucks.

If you insist on playing, might as well run the Champion cheetah on scout missions.

[PyckenZot]

AdetheRare, on 03 May 2016 - 06:07 AM, said:

Yeah that does tend to happen. Reason I ask is because IS mechs are, well, poorly equipped until you spend a ton of C-Bills on them for structure, armor and engine upgrades to make space for anywhere near the number of weapon systems that Clan mechs do, so it'd explain the pug problem:

Vanilla Clan mechs have their upgrades (or as it turns out, smaller weapons), thus more weapons
Vanilla IS mechs are basic as hell and pack half-to-two-thirds the weaponry
So in a straight out fight, Clan will win due to just being able to field more weapons

That's why I was thinking that.

I know because I had to spend *a lot* to get my Cataphract to be anywhere near as/more effective than a Shadowcat

It's not all that simple.

On IS mechs you need to buy better engines, structure and armor upgrades and the lot.
On Clan mechs all those are fixed. But you can switch omnipods. Put the A model arm and the C model right torso on a B model center. Admittedly, those are cheaper than buying a new engine. But then again clan mechs come more expensive than IS version.

What is most annoying about fitting clan mechs is the fixed upgrades and engine: you get a fixed free weight (but you can skim a few tons of armor of if you like) and fixed number of slots to fill out the weight as optimally as possible. Good luck! ^^

Edited by PyckenZot, 03 May 2016 - 06:30 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Novakaine, on 03 May 2016 - 04:19 AM, said:

Organized well led equipped squad vs. ill equipped disorganized rabble.
No contest.

And that has no bearing on there Faction.

IM sure when a bunch of PUG Clanners see an IS 12 man they have the same feelings.

AdetheRare, on 03 May 2016 - 05:32 AM, said:

Hang on, do Clan mechs come fully upgraded when bought?

Yes, but the cbills price is higher.

Clan mechs come with FF and/or Endo (sometimes) and usually have CXL engines, but the price tag reflects this and a 75 ton IS mech with Endo, FF and a large XL will run you just about the same amount of space bucks as a TBR.

So yes, all Clans come with DHS and either Endo or FF sometimes both. But they are not cheaper by any means, you still pay the same thing. BUt most IS mechs are better anyway so you get more bang for you buck IS wise because of QUIRKS! Liek structure!

[Mystere]

AdetheRare, on 03 May 2016 - 02:23 AM, said:

My understanding of it is that both sides get four drops? Wouldn't it be fairer and more balanced, and not to mention lore-friendly if Clan had less? It might also help balance it, because at the moment it looks like the reward system for Invasion/Defence in this event will basically be *give the Clan players a Warhawk after a few days*.

The invasion mode should have really been done differently. At the very least, it should have been made asymmetrical instead of this "always 12v12" crap. Invaders should have the advantage of numbers. Defenders should probably have the advantage of weight per single drop.

How many military commanders in all of human history have successfully assaulted an entrenched and fortified position using equal or less numbers than the enemy?

[PyckenZot]

Revis Volek, on 03 May 2016 - 06:41 AM, said:

Clan mechs come with FF and/or Endo (sometimes) and usually have CXL engines, but the price tag reflects this and a 75 ton IS mech with Endo, FF and a large XL will run you just about the same amount of space bucks as a TBR.

Same goes for plenty of IS mechs. But contrary to Clans you can change them there. Hence the extra C-bills need.

Edited by PyckenZot, 03 May 2016 - 06:52 AM.

[William Pryde]

As a clanner, I have won most of my PUG vs. PUG invasion drops over the past few days; however, without fail in every single one of those games, at least one of my teammates took over as drop caller and the rest of the team (mostly) listened to the drop caller. We were a lot more coordinated than the enemy team in each of those games. In the few games where no one took over, we either lost or it was a very narrow win.

I do not know if Jade Falcon PUGs tend to do this more often than others, but it has made a world of difference. I only speak from my own experience - it probably is not representative of PUGs as a whole. I also do not know if the IS PUGs had anyone calling their drop - it certainly did not seem like it, but they may have had a caller that no one was paying attention to.

[Ade the Rare]

I lack a working mic, otherwise I'd call for the team. Well, it works on other games, just not MWO (believe me I've tried).

You see, the lack of pug success for IS makes sense if a lot of people are dropping with trial mechs. I imagine the event would encourage a lot of people to do that.

Hmmmm maybe it isn't a balance issue then. Still annoying

[Revis Volek]

PyckenZot, on 03 May 2016 - 06:52 AM, said:

Same goes for plenty of IS mechs. But contrary to Clans you can change them there. Hence the extra C-bills need.

Huh?

Didnt i kinda say that?

And Yes IS has the ability to change them, clans dont!

AdetheRare, on 03 May 2016 - 07:31 AM, said:

I lack a working mic, otherwise I'd call for the team. Well, it works on other games, just not MWO (believe me I've tried).

You see, the lack of pug success for IS makes sense if a lot of people are dropping with trial mechs. I imagine the event would encourage a lot of people to do that.

Hmmmm maybe it isn't a balance issue then. Still annoying

Why not just use TeamSpeak then?

My mic and VOIP also NEVER works in MWO, i have no idea why it doesn't but it just doesn't. But i didn't let that stop me, plenty of 3rd party stuff out there.