41 replies to this topic

[Alan Davion]

Stefka Kerensky, on 05 May 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

Because I can see ppl I meet when solo dropping that they are absolute beginners.
And I should not meet them, if tier system MM would make sense and work.

But this is PGI we're dealing with. Nothing can make sense. It would break their MO. Everything has to be asinine, convoluted and just plain ridiculous.

[Revis Volek]

Stefka Kerensky, on 05 May 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

Because I can see ppl I meet when solo dropping that they are absolute beginners.
And I should not meet them, if tier system MM would make sense and work.

And you know for a FACT it has nothing to do with low population numbers in this game?

100% sure of that?

[Revis Volek]

Alan Davion, on 05 May 2016 - 08:02 AM, said:

Yes, I in fact do. I suffer from Crohn's Disease. I'm currently 31 and I've had the condition since I was 3. Make of that what you will.

I wouldn't call my system a potato, though it is probably just a few steps above that. My current rig is the one my brother built about 6 years ago, I got it about 2 years ago when he built himself a better rig. I'm currently waiting on my tax return to build an even better system than my brother has.

I guarantee playing on an outdated computer is partially to blame...

I also used to play on a junky q6600 quad core and since then my PSR shot up as well as my game play in general.

Going from that piece of junk to an i7 with 16 gigs of ram was like night and day for me. t3 to t2 in 2 weeks using my urbies.


You would be amazed at what a REAL computer can do. You are lossing in the system because of this IMO, not because you are bad. We wont know your true skill level until you get on more level playing field hardware wise with the general population IMO.

Edited by Revis Volek, 05 May 2016 - 08:50 AM.

[JigglyMoobs]

I think the tier system is actually OK considering a limited player base. However, mm needs to be tweaked.

First mm should take into account some sort of effectiveness rating for your mechbuild. I'm at a different level of effectiveness in a laser vomit than a trial Raven. Mm should know this.

2nd mm should take some measure of propensity for teamwork. That seems to become more important in pugs as more people use VoIP, etc

The above are not easy to implement but should improve match making.

PS, one shouldnt worry too much about a tier potato teammate/opponent, chances are theres one on the other team to balance out. The problem comes when there's an imbalance of effectiveness, which is a mm problem.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 05 May 2016 - 09:09 AM.

[9thDeathscream]

Revis Volek, on 05 May 2016 - 08:50 AM, said:

I guarantee playing on an outdated computer is partially to blame...

I also used to play on a junky q6600 quad core and since then my PSR shot up as well as my game play in general.

Going from that piece of junk to an i7 with 16 gigs of ram was like night and day for me. t3 to t2 in 2 weeks using my urbies.


You would be amazed at what a REAL computer can do. You are lossing in the system because of this IMO, not because you are bad. We wont know your true skill level until you get on more level playing field hardware wise with the general population IMO.

Hes not wrong.

I have an i7 3770k @ 4.4Ghz, 16Gb ram Evga 980ti on a 144hz monitor MWO on a SSD and its a dream to play. The smoother the game runs the better u will perform

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Stefka Kerensky, on 05 May 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

Because I can see ppl I meet when solo dropping that they are absolute beginners.
And I should not meet them, if tier system MM would make sense and work.

Depending on when you drop the range of tiers expands a lot and includes everyone in group queue.

[9thDeathscream]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 05 May 2016 - 09:22 AM, said:

Depending on when you drop the range of tiers expands a lot and includes everyone in group queue.

That's true, I play at different times and for me being in Australia it varies greatly.

So in the morning for me I get more balanced matches and a lower waiting time. In the early afternoon the wait times go through the roof and a lot more stomps occur! Then about midnight till 5 am it balances back out with lower waits and more even matches.

[Alan Davion]

Revis Volek, on 05 May 2016 - 08:50 AM, said:

I guarantee playing on an outdated computer is partially to blame...

I also used to play on a junky q6600 quad core and since then my PSR shot up as well as my game play in general.

Going from that piece of junk to an i7 with 16 gigs of ram was like night and day for me. t3 to t2 in 2 weeks using my urbies.


You would be amazed at what a REAL computer can do. You are lossing in the system because of this IMO, not because you are bad. We wont know your true skill level until you get on more level playing field hardware wise with the general population IMO.

Akulla1980, on 05 May 2016 - 09:16 AM, said:

Hes not wrong.

I have an i7 3770k @ 4.4Ghz, 16Gb ram Evga 980ti on a 144hz monitor MWO on a SSD and its a dream to play. The smoother the game runs the better u will perform

I play both MWO and World of Warships on this rig, and they both run pretty much equally in terms of graphics and frame rate. However, I find myself doing better in WoW simply due to the fact that game is much slower paced than MWO is.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Revis Volek, on 05 May 2016 - 06:37 AM, said:

Again, MM and PSR are working EXACTLY as PGI intended them to.... There is NO ZERO SUM and its IMPOSSIBLE TO GO DOWN.

How do you have any idea weather PGI intended it to be that way or not? You dont, you are just speaking out of your ***.

Now PGI's intentions, well thats a discussion for another thread, maybe on Reddit.

Paul had a post on the forum saying how the system was actually designed so that eventually everyone should end up in Tier 1.

Sauce

Quote

Clarification 2: The more games you play the higher Tier you're going to get.
That's partly true. The more games you play, the better you should become. The better you become, the higher your match scores will be. But you will plateau somewhere. Our top players have hit the PSR point ceiling. Even at that level their PSR values bounce up and down off the ceiling. They may go down 1 point on a loss but spring back up on their next victory.

Because matches are based on Tiers, we're trying to make sure that you are playing against people who are around the same level of skill. That being said, breaking into Tier 1 is just a way for us to make sure you never play anyone in tier 4 or 5. Anyone who has a slightly positive Win/Loss ratio should eventually end up in Tier 1 if they are consistent in their play and match performance.

If we were to turn off new player registration/sign-up and just let the current player base play on forever, eventually everyone will bubble up to Tier 2 or Tier 1. That's because with experience comes better player skill. There would still be people in lower Tiers, it's just that that pool of players would be smaller than top Tier players. Lower tier players would end up being those who refuse to adjust to their team's dynamics and play a 1 trick pony type of gameplay.

Edited by Saint Scarlett Johan, 05 May 2016 - 10:52 AM.

[wanderer]

The PSR system as it stands is nothing more than an exp bar.

The match scores needed to hit the +/=/avoid - point need to increase as tier level does so the same "get carried" performance doesn't result in automatically drifting higher.

[STEF_]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 05 May 2016 - 10:51 AM, said:

Paul had a post on the forum saying how the system was actually designed so that eventually everyone should end up in Tier 1.

Sauce
[/font]

Esactly.
But some uninformed Voleking refuses to read and understand.

Revis Volek, on 05 May 2016 - 08:47 AM, said:

And you know for a FACT it has nothing to do with low population numbers in this game?

Really nothing.
Being tier 1, I can meet tier 3.
Sadly those ones are really fresh and green players for being ultra easy to reach tier 3.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

wanderer, on 05 May 2016 - 10:57 AM, said:

The PSR system as it stands is nothing more than an exp bar.

The match scores needed to hit the +/=/avoid - point need to increase as tier level does so the same "get carried" performance doesn't result in automatically drifting higher.

The game needs to have a zero-sum MM.

Or preferably no MM at all. Just grab the first 24 players, balance the tonnage on each side, and create a match for Solo.

I've noticed that a lot of video games without MMs tend to be more fun and balanced overall instead of it trying to force equality and fairness.

EDIT: Of if they have a matchmaker, make it statistically based on average matchscore and let PGI figure out where the bars for Tiers are.

Ex. PGI determines that the average matchscore of the top 10% is 450, and sets the bar to Tier 1 at needing an average 425 average matchscore to maintain Tier 1 status. For Tier 2, PGI determines the next 15% of the playerbase has an average matchscore of 325, so PGI determines players need to maintain an average 305 matchscore to maintain Tier 2 status, and so on and so forth.

Edited by Saint Scarlett Johan, 05 May 2016 - 11:41 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Are you new here?

[Dimento Graven]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 05 May 2016 - 11:26 AM, said:

The game needs to have a zero-sum MM.

Or preferably no MM at all. Just grab the first 24 players, balance the tonnage on each side, and create a match for Solo.

I've noticed that a lot of video games without MMs tend to be more fun and balanced overall instead of it trying to force equality and fairness.

Sorry but before the skills based MM was put in, there were hundreds, probably THOUSANDS of posts of people complaining against having to have nooby scrubs placed in their teams and getting roflstomped 12-0, over and over and over and over.

As I recall the order, and those of you with sharper memories, chime in:

8v8 - no MM at all, I don't even think we had weight balancing. Solo players and grouped players ALL in the SAME queue. - Results in thousands of posts about how pre-mades were killing the game, and yadda, yadda, yadda... PGI looks into it says that over NINETY PERCENT of roflstomps were being inflicted by complete PUG groups, YET, PGI still knuckles under and limits groups to a maximum size of 4.

With the new maximum 4 man group size in the 8v8 queue, STILL bitching and moaning about how pre-mades were eating people's babies and so PGI separated the queues, solo and pre-made group.

People STILL weren't happy as without weight balancing you could end up with 8 lights vs. 8 assaults. PGI adds weight balancing.

People STILL weren't happy, PGI added Elo.

Somewhere around there I think we got 12v12.

People STILL weren't happy, what about map selection and for about two whole days we had some bizarre form of map voting and thank god it's gone.

People STILL weren't happy, so we got 3/3/3/3.

AND PEOPLE STILL weren't happy, so we got pre-made scaling weight restrictions.

AND PEOPLE STILL weren't happy, so we replaced Elo with PSR.

And PEOPLE STILL AREN'T HAPPY, and now we are seeing calls to go all the way BACK to what it was, what? Almost 4 years ago, with no skills based MM...

LOL, actually it's funny and ironic...

[jss78]

The system just needs some tweaks.

It needs to weigh the match score based on the weight of your 'mech. The predominantly damage-based match score will lead to a systematic bias of people mostly running heavier mechs having higher PSR ratings, and underestimate the skill of dedicated light/medium pilots.

Second, I agree there's probably a tendency for people to rise in PSR even when their performance is average. But I don't think this tendency is as strong as people say. "Everyone rises to Tier X in time Y" is an over-simplification. Look around on the forums: there are plenty of long-time, experienced players who remain at lower tiers.

And as to the opening post, I guarantee a genuinely new player won't rise anywhere in PSR in his first few dozen games, but he'll struggle even in Tier 5 matches.

[DAYLEET]

The XP bar is the best system we can get for solo Q. But it sure could use tuning, for example, it's not per team it's per player, someone new could get lucky and be T3 and facing T1 in a week and that's just wrong. If T3 is to be mixed with T1 then it needs to be harder to get in and out of.

You can't stop people blaming others when they lose and no system will change that. The game can be very frustrating at times, with longer drop times, game modes and maps you dont want to play, the guy who has a different view than you when it comes to gaming style, the MM put all the drunks on your team, the voting system that blows in your face, those 2 guys you CQ flanked with who disappear at the first sight of trouble etc etc so people will be more vocal and notice how when 1 guy says something bad to his team then another+ follows, domino effect because a lot are already on the edge of their seat.

I can't see a way to fix most of MWO problem without first increasing the player base by a big factor. but how do you get more player if you cant fix the frustrating things without more players... arent downward spiral fun. I already got all i need to enjoy the game with around 150 mech so i can just hit quickplay and hope for the best or just brainlessly go through the motion or do whatever. I can't imagine what it's like to be new and have economy problem on top and learning gameplay, mechanics, battlemech weakness/strength, learning the maps.

We dont have stats and we know how pgi love to keep their stats secret and thats not helping either. I can tell you that starting 1am eastern time the waiting time for a light double and triple and quadruple up to 3am and gets worse by the drop, in general the fun and outcome goes downhill pretty fast. Im back to being alt tabbed when the game starts.

Someone find the guy who invented matchmaking in video game and take him to a vet. It wioked great before, why fk with it.

Dimento Graven, on 05 May 2016 - 11:36 AM, said:

Sorry but before the skills based MM was put in, there were hundreds, probably THOUSANDS of posts of people complaining against having to have nooby scrubs placed in their teams and getting roflstomped 12-0, over and over and over and over.

As I recall the order, and those of you with sharper memories, chime in:

8v8 - no MM at all, I don't even think we had weight balancing. Solo players and grouped players ALL in the SAME queue. - Results in thousands of posts about how pre-mades were killing the game, and yadda, yadda, yadda... PGI looks into it says that over NINETY PERCENT of roflstomps were being inflicted by complete PUG groups, YET, PGI still knuckles under and limits groups to a maximum size of 4.

With the new maximum 4 man group size in the 8v8 queue, STILL bitching and moaning about how pre-mades were eating people's babies and so PGI separated the queues, solo and pre-made group.

People STILL weren't happy as without weight balancing you could end up with 8 lights vs. 8 assaults. PGI adds weight balancing.

People STILL weren't happy, PGI added Elo.

Somewhere around there I think we got 12v12.

People STILL weren't happy, what about map selection and for about two whole days we had some bizarre form of map voting and thank god it's gone.

People STILL weren't happy, so we got 3/3/3/3.

AND PEOPLE STILL weren't happy, so we got pre-made scaling weight restrictions.

AND PEOPLE STILL weren't happy, so we replaced Elo with PSR.

And PEOPLE STILL AREN'T HAPPY, and now we are seeing calls to go all the way BACK to what it was, what? Almost 4 years ago, with no skills based MM...

LOL, actually it's funny and ironic...

what do you want? people NOT blaming others when they lose? People are using the match maker as an excuse to blame the rest of their teams but it's still not a reason to not try and improve the system(i like xp bar more than anything we got so far).

okay okay back in the days we blamed team stacking but that could be fixed if people were nice or you could switch server... oh thats right we dont have that. When no one is in control(damn u match maker) then everyone loses their mind.

Edited by DAYLEET, 05 May 2016 - 01:33 PM.

[Roadkill]

Dimento Graven, on 05 May 2016 - 06:43 AM, said:

It's possible to go down in the following way:

When your team wins, you've done poorly enough to get '=' in your PSR score.
When you lose, you NEVER do well enough to get '=' in your PSR score.

It's not even that hard. You can get '+' in a win, just don't ever get '++'. In other words, your match score should never exceed 250, win or lose.

In a loss that gets you '---' (match score < 100) or '--' (match score 100-250), while in a win it only gets you '=' or '+'. Assuming 50-50 win-loss, you have a net decrease and don't even have to be doing THAT terribly.

For a lot of people, getting 300-350 damage and a kill is a "good game" and they're happy. But that's not all that likely to crack 250 match score.

[Roadkill]

Revis Volek, on 05 May 2016 - 07:13 AM, said:

So on the books yea you can go down, but its doesn't seem like anyone is actually THAT BAD according to PGI's system. Im sure there are some out there that sank like rocks due to being carried but i have yet to find them.

What it does, though, is prevent some people from getting above Tier 3 or Tier 2. As your tier goes up, the difficulty of getting above 250 match score also goes up. There are plenty of people who have settled into their "correct" Tier at either 2 or 3 simply because they're now at the point where they get a match score in the 250-400 range on a win, and 100-250 on a loss. That's neutral PSR if you're getting 50-50 win-loss.

Edited by Roadkill, 05 May 2016 - 01:47 PM.

[Abisha]

wish i was back in Tier 3, playing at Tier 2 is borring. but not wanna loss my death/kill rates ;(

[Felicitatem Parco]

Wait a second... Are you all saying that a highly-skilled player who can fluently pilot a battlemech will not remain in low tiers after mopping the floor with his enemies? How broken is that?


I have to say that it requires a special kind of entitlement and maliciousness to believe that you have the right to drop into new player queues and ruin their game experience for your own enjoyment. Anyone who thinks that high skill players should remain in new player queues for extended periods of time should just leave the game because you are a detriment to this games health. Go away.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 06 May 2016 - 06:58 AM.