25 replies to this topic

[Ryoken]

Reworking LRMs should implement a direct fire and indirect fire mode:

In MWO LRMs are always flying indirectly and always need a lock on regardless of line of sight. This is an impractical and not lore conform implementation as LRMs do not have a longer targetting time than other weapons (LRM, SRM, Lasers, ACs etc. all can be fired in one TT round iirc ca. 6 seconds).

A big portion of the problems LRMs cause to new players is that any LRM mech can fire at any radar target indirectly way to easy.
At the same time this mechanism is making them useless in competitive environments as high tier players use cover efficiently completely denying LRM lock-on or easyly getting back into cover before the LRM salvo hits them.

Direct fire mode:
Implement a direct fire mechanism for LRMs having line of sight without lock-on time, flying to the target in a direct line following where the cross hair is aimed at like a guided TOW or MILAN missile (and make them fly way faster like x1,5 the current speed).

Indirect fire mode:
Only allow indirect fire when there is no line of sight and a friendly mech specially locks on an enemy mech by some kind of low tech TAG variant that every mech has (0tons/0slots - without the real TAGs bonuses).
Also the spotting mech using the low tech TAG may not fire any of its own weapons. If I remember correctly this is how indirect fire works lore wise. I also could imagine a command rose popping up while targetting a locked on mech for indirect fire, allowing the indirect firing mech to chose which spotters lock on he wants to use. Vice versa the friendly scout mech could get information which players are using his lock on, to reward and encourage team play.

By the proposals mentioned above LRMs would no longer scare new players and become playable in the competitive environment at the same time.

Also related Problem 1: ECM does not affect LRMs! It does negate the Artemis bonus - but it does not impair standard LRMs at all!

Also related Problem 2: TAGs are made to be invisible. Having shiny red TAG lasers reduces the role warfare aspect of scout mechs to absurdity, as they imidiately give away their carefully aquired position.

I mean we got the Archer, so it should be time for correct implementation of LRMs right?

Edited by Ryoken, 05 May 2016 - 10:17 AM.

[Novakaine]

Good luck any of that bro-mech.

[cazidin]

I'm not sure that LRMs require a complete rework. Significantly faster velocity, standardized spread so that larger launchers are taken more often over smaller launchers, and maybe alter the flight arc.

As for ECM? It should be like it was on PTS 3. It provides a 2-3 second delay but doesn't permanently negate a lock. This could also apply to target info gathering, making it a much more useful but not overly powerful tool.

As for TAG? Make it toggable and make the laser invisible to your enemy?

[Monkey Lover]

Buff Artemis by about 200% as it's Los and nerf non Los lrms.

[wanderer]

Seriously, the first fixes need to be velocity and the fact that bigger launchers are less effective thanks to spread.

And have unlocked missiles fired in a straight line.

[Jun Watarase]

Ryoken, on 05 May 2016 - 09:55 AM, said:

Reworking LRMs should implement a direct fire and indirect fire mode:

In MWO LRMs are always flying indirectly and always need a lock on regardless of line of sight. This is an impractical and not lore conform implementation as LRMs do not have a longer targetting time than other weapons (LRM, SRM, Lasers, ACs etc. all can be fired in one TT round iirc ca. 6 seconds).

A big portion of the problems LRMs cause to new players is that any LRM mech can fire at any radar target indirectly way to easy.
At the same time this mechanism is making them useless in competitive environments as high tier players use cover efficiently completely denying LRM lock-on or easyly getting back into cover before the LRM salvo hits them.

Direct fire mode:
Implement a direct fire mechanism for LRMs having line of sight without lock-on time, flying to the target in a direct line following where the cross hair is aimed at like a guided TOW or MILAN missile (and make them fly way faster like x1,5 the current speed).

Indirect fire mode:
Only allow indirect fire when there is no line of sight and a friendly mech specially locks on an enemy mech by some kind of low tech TAG variant that every mech has (0tons/0slots - without the real TAGs bonuses).
Also the spotting mech using the low tech TAG may not fire any of its own weapons. If I remember correctly this is how indirect fire works lore wise. I also could imagine a command rose popping up while targetting a locked on mech for indirect fire, allowing the indirect firing mech to chose which spotters lock on he wants to use. Vice versa the friendly scout mech could get information which players are using his lock on, to reward and encourage team play.

By the proposals mentioned above LRMs would no longer scare new players and become playable in the competitive environment at the same time.

Also related Problem 1: ECM does not affect LRMs! It does negate the Artemis bonus - but it does not impair standard LRMs at all!

Also related Problem 2: TAGs are made to be invisible. Having shiny red TAG lasers reduces the role warfare aspect of scout mechs to absurdity, as they imidiately give away their carefully aquired position.

I mean we got the Archer, so it should be time for correct implementation of LRMs right?

And now for the multi million dollar question...how do you get paul to make any changes?

[Nightmare1]

Personally, I think that LRMs just need their damage increased back up by 0.1/missile and then call it good.

Edited by Nightmare1, 05 May 2016 - 11:44 AM.

[TwentyOne]

Remove lock on missiles and replace them with non lock on missiles that are much faster and much more fun. They should add a large variety of artillery cannons, that's a great way to introduce indirect fire with skill.

Edited by TwentyOne, 05 May 2016 - 11:48 AM.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

So you want 1000 meter SRMs...

No thanks, that's a pretty dumb idea

Edited by Ex Atlas Overlord, 05 May 2016 - 12:32 PM.

[process]

I fully support a direct fire alt mode that ties into information warfare:

1. Indirect fire as is.
2. Direct fire with lock, similar to now but with a significantly more shallow angle of fire.
3. Direct fire without lock: fires in a straight line.

Missile velocity shouldn't have to increase due to the decreased travel distance.

Alternately, I like the idea of missiles homing in on your reticle. It requires more skill, but also raises their potential effectiveness. Having the missiles fly in a line puts them somewhere between lasers and Clan autocannons, but much slower.

PGI, please give my Timber Wolves a reason to run LRMs.

Edited by process, 05 May 2016 - 12:34 PM.

[Lord0fHats]

That's kind of an over simplification. LRMs have several problems in comp play the chiefest ones actually being; 1) damage is spread all across a mech which is great for padding your score but not for actually bring down enemies, and 2) Bum rush a LRM boat and it becomes very useless.

Your proposal fixes neither of these problems.

The reality is that LRMs have no clear place in play. Upping their damage doesn't fix the problem with spread. There is no defined "sweet spot" here where LRMs do enough damage to be worth carrying in comp but don't dominate the Metagame (LRMpocalypse all over again please god no). This is similar to the constant back and forth between the ER Large Laser and the ERPPC some years ago, except the conflict is between LRMs and every other weapon.

LRMs languish because there really just isn't a way to make them balanced. Their either subpar or broken.

I really think LRMs should be reworked to fulfill an artillery role; let players indirect fire them into the map without a lock. Actual player controlled artillery has a place in the game, and solves a number of problems in the metagame; the general strength of ranged trading from cover, the overwhelming power of an effectively executed death ball, and LRMs having no real place in game play except to be a goofy fun way to spend time.

[Roughneck Cobra]

PGI doesnt give a hoot for your input, please do not bother.

As mentioned by Russ.

[Big Tin Man]

WHY DIRECT FIRE LRMS WON'T EVER BE A THING IN MWO:

LBX
LBX 2, 5, 10, 20 is now completely obsolete. Too many slots, too much weight, too short of range. Still travels faster and is cooler though.

SRM
SRM 2, 4, 6 hits harder per ton, but now has immense drawbacks for heavy and assault mechs that have tonnage to spare.

Splat builds just got a lot more scary
Splat cats? Oh yeah.
Splattermasters? Better believe it
Splatcrab with 2xAC/20's AND 30-40 tubes? Yup.
Splatlas? Lord have mercy.

So please stop asking. It is going to be horrific. Every assault build will have a 100+ point shotgun blast alpha that can also hit you with indirect fire. No way to balance these direct fire shotguns.

[Davers]

LRMs definitely needs a complete rework, but since that would also mean reworking sensors, ECM, NARC, TAG, and who knows what else, it will probably never happen.

[process]

Big Tin Man, on 05 May 2016 - 01:45 PM, said:

So please stop asking. It is going to be horrific. Every assault build will have a 100+ point shotgun blast alpha that can also hit you with indirect fire. No way to balance these direct fire shotguns.

I don't think that's anything minimum range, stream fire, and manual aiming can't fix.

[Lyoto Machida]

Novakaine, on 05 May 2016 - 10:31 AM, said:

Good luck any of that bro-mech.

This...it's been suggested too many times and I don't think PGI cares or knows how to fix it.

[IQcreditscore]

process, on 05 May 2016 - 12:33 PM, said:

3. Direct fire without lock: fires in a straight line.

Actually a nerf to how it works currently. Dumbfiring at unlocked targets beyond 600m is cruel but effective. No warning from the annoying lady with the teamspeak voice and with it diving from above you can often hit with 2 salvos in a pimped out hunchback or something with super fast reloads.

[SmoothCriminal]

PGI have their hands full balancing meta tier weapons and mechs for their tournament. Do not expect a fix any time soon!

[process]

I'm not expecting a fix ever.

[JC Daxion]

I've said this many times....

decrease lock time if you have line of site, and flatten the arc, to make them get there quicker. If you have artemis+bap lock should basically be instant. You would still need to maintain the lock, so unlike direct fire weapons you would still need to be out of cover, verse peak-fire-hide of the instant weapons..


Indirect fire should only be able to be done, if they are Tagged, UAV, or NARC.. But also would have a higher arc and longer lock time. Basically working exactly as they are now, but you would need one of the 3 for it to work.

ECM should delay lock time, not stop it all togther.. I think all these fixes are pretty easy, and would balance them nicely..


Ohh, and increase the spread on LRM5's, and a slight increase on 10's. to me the cluster should all be the same diamiter, and when going up in launcher size, that would mean more missiles to fill in the gaps, making larger launchers better
I've said this many times....

decrease lock time if you have line of site, and flatten the arc, to make them get their quicker. If you have artemis+bap lock should basically be instant. You would still need to maintain the lock, so unlike direct fire weapons you would still need to be out of cover, verse peak-fire-hide of the instant weapons..


Indirect fire should only be able to be done, if they are Tagged, UAV, or NARC.. But also would have a higher arc and longer lock time. Basically working exactly as they are now, but you would need one of the 3 for it to work.