61 replies to this topic

[Jazzbandit1313]

Alright, now before you all tear me a new one, hear me out.

I think we can all agree that Basic'ing three variants of an IS mech to reach the higher-tier proficiency like speed-tweek, etc, makes sense.

I think we can also all agree that buying three variants of a clan mech to do the same thing kind of sucks, as we often find ourselves running *mostly* the same omnipods and builds as we get used to what we like on the mech.

IS mechs having locked hardpoints forces us to vary our loadouts and broaden our skillset to essentially work with what we're given. With clan mechs, when basic'ing three chassis, it's so easy and comfortable to run the same build over and over again for every chassis. I know from firsthand experience, as I mastered all three of my Novas with 6 C-ERML on them 95% of the time.

Therefore, I argue that being able to swap out the omnipods on a clan mech should come as a second, master tier proficiency that costs some high amount of XP, like the second module slot. This will force the mechwarrior to adapt to the mech and not be allowed to sit in his/her comfort zone. This also prevents the clan mechs from being boring to play. I play one game with my Nova and I'm sick of the thing, vs. an IS mech that I have to build out according to the hardpoints in the lore, challenging me to make unique builds that constantly help me improve both my weapon skill across all categories and my versatility as a pilot of many different mechs. The tragedy here is that you might think players will vary their omnipods and builds even if they have the ability to run the same thing across several variants, but the guilty pleasure of having that one build you always do well in is often too much of a plus for people. Hell, I tried doing something different with each clan variant, but I almost always return to the builds I know I can consistently do well in with less effort because it's just easier. Not to say that clan mechs are easier to use in general, but from a building and logistics perspective, they absolutely are.

Thoughts, comments, questions, additions, criticisms? I'm eager to hear what you all think.


TO CLARIFY,

I mean that swapping omnipods should be locked, not the weapons, heatsinks, etc. We'd still be able to customize the mechs, just not with different omnipod hardpoints until mastering.

Edited by Jazzbandit1313, 05 May 2016 - 10:59 PM.

[Lunatic NEo]

We should also lower their Heat Cap, Heat Dissapation, lower all Laser Range, raise their Laser Duration and kill them outright if they loose a ST!

[Lucian Nostra]

So run something different? All my Clan mechs run different builds than the other variants (save the Kitfox just not a lot can do with that mech)

I mean we could go on about how maybe we should lock out IS customization until master as well.. but that would sound equally silly

[Moldur]

Considering mastering mechs is a stupid idea to begin with, shouldn't we not want to go further down the rabbit hole? I get where you are coming, but here is my crazy idea out of the crazy idea factory: if something sucks, lets not make it suck even more.

The antithetical to this philosophy is, "lets make things that suck suck even more."

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

So you are taking away the choice to swap out omnipods until mastery because you feel it reduces how different your builds will be.

You know, you could just actually choose to make different builds if you actually want to. You can even use combinations of omnipods to build entirely different builds from other variants. I mean with the Nova you can build ballistic carrying variants, ones with a couple missiles, different amounts or types of lasers, just about anything, but you in particular chose to just take 6 medium lasers. All my Novas have different loadouts on them at the moment and most needed omnipods from other variants to create them.

I'm not really for things that remove choice from each player and clan mechs already have more than enough things locked on them to go and require you to master them to even change the omnipods. It would be like asking you to master an IS mech before you can change the engine, heatsinks, armor, etc.

[Paigan]

Jazzbandit1313, on 05 May 2016 - 10:38 PM, said:

Alright, now before you all tear me a new one, hear me out.

[...]

I don't need to :-D.
I play purely clans and I think this is a good idea.

Of course the change would hardly matter. Mechs are mastered in a matter of days and remain so for years.

What would actually be needed is a proper, a little more sophisticated skill system.

And maybe a effort/penalty for switching pods in another way (C-Bills, downtime, etc.).
But then of course a massively huger effort for recustomizing Battlmechs, because they should actually be LESS flexible than Omnis, not more as they are now.

[Lunatic NEo]

Paigan, on 05 May 2016 - 11:09 PM, said:

I don't need to :-D.
I play purely clans and I think this is a good idea.

Of course the change would hardly matter. Mechs are mastered in a matter of days and remain so for years.

What would actually be needed is a proper, a little more sophisticated skill system.

And maybe a effort/penalty for switching pods in another way (C-Bills, downtime, etc.).
But then of course a massively huger effort for recustomizing Battlmechs, because they should actually be LESS flexible than Omnis, not more as they are now.

But only Clan Battlemechs should need this huge effort. IS Mechs shall have much better Weapons, Durations and you should change Loadout while ingame, to stay competetive.

[kesmai]

Let us lock all modifications on all mechs until mastered.
Equal treatment for both sides i'd say.

I still need bacon cockpit items...

[Lunatic NEo]

Yay no Modifications for you and you and you until you have played a dozen matches and got stomped by players who are allready mastered and using reasonable good machines!
Thats the spirit!

[dervishx5]

Everyone should just get unmodified urbanmechs to play with. Problem solved.

[kesmai]

Urbanmech idea fully supported.
If you want a faster mech just paint it red.

[Nightshade24]

I like this idea but I think mastery is to far... maybe getting your elits unlocked (not getting them yet, simply getting your basics on 3 alt.configs is enough)

Reasoning being that it cuts the time of pain down a lot... not all omnipods stock are gods. Who here wants to pilot a 1 ballistic 2 energy mist lynx?...
Gargoyle prime?...

I do believe omnipod stock bonus and making each alt.config unique is important. But I think making the unlock to mastery giving the unlocks to omnipods being a very silly idea. (especially since IS mechs do not have to grind to mastery to get Endo steel or ferro or xl engines. Meaning many IS mechs can out compete a clan mech if they didn't get their mastery which makes the clan omnipod situation worse!).
Not only that but what you attempted to achieved is ruined once someone hits mastery. What you aimmed for was to try to inspire variation but instead you made the typical builds a forbidden fruit which people may as well now want even more then keeping anything simular to a stock omnipods... because a timberwolf with er med lasers and large pulse lasers is now a lot more awarding (as symbolism of having mastery) then say 4 LRM 15's and 3 medium lasers on your timberwolf D or what ever.

[Lunatic NEo]

But Clans need to be getting worse, cause as you see in CW, in the Tournaments, in the Meta Mech Lists, they are still OP. There are still Clans picked by some!

[Black Ivan]

One more of this hidden "Nerf Clans OP" topics.

[Wintersdark]

I'd be fine with this, if after mastery I got to change FF/ES as well as my omnipods. That sounds fair to me.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Honestly the idea of "holding off omni pod switching till mastered" makes enough sense... essentially showing you as a new pilot in said mech, and that the powers that be don't trust you to mix and match till you've had enough time in the mech.

I personally like the idea.

[Sjorpha]

Please no.

When I buy a clan mech it's because I need it for a specific thing. A CW dropdeck or because my unit wants me to have a certain set of builds and mechs available.

Limiting the build options would increase the grind to reach those goals, without adding anything for me.

Ideally the "3 mechs to master" thing should be scrapped and replaced, it not a good system to begin with IMO. I'd prefer to be able to only buy and master the mechs I actually want, both for IS and clan.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Sjorpha, on 06 May 2016 - 02:07 AM, said:

Please no.

When I buy a clan mech it's because I need it for a specific thing. A CW dropdeck or because my unit wants me to have a certain set of builds and mechs available.

Limiting the build options would increase the grind to reach those goals, without adding anything for me.

Ideally the "3 mechs to master" thing should be scrapped and replaced, it not a good system to begin with IMO. I'd prefer to be able to only buy and master the mechs I actually want, both for IS and clan.

So, what do you propose as a replacement for the 3 mechs to master system?

I hear a lot of "Get rid of it and replace it" but I never see anyone put forth a viable option to replace it with.

Remember man, we're playing a Free to play game, you get 2 options, your time, or your money... you can always spend money to convert XP from an existing mech you play the hell out of to GXP to master your mechs faster. That's your option to skip the current grind.

Just like any F2P game... What's more valuable to you, your time, or your money. You have that choice to make.

[Sjorpha]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 06 May 2016 - 02:20 AM, said:

So, what do you propose as a replacement for the 3 mechs to master system?

I hear a lot of "Get rid of it and replace it" but I never see anyone put forth a viable option to replace it with.

Good point.

The 3 of a weight class for mastering I think is reasonable, it is mainly the requirement to buy 3 variants of the same mech that is frustrating.

Perhaps you could just increase the XP requirements for the skills?

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Sjorpha, on 06 May 2016 - 02:24 AM, said:

Good point.

The 3 of a weight class for mastering I think is reasonable, it is mainly the requirement to buy 3 variants of the same mech that is frustrating.

Perhaps you could just increase the XP requirements for the skills?

Hmm... well keep in mind, the point behind the "mastery" system to begin with, is to show that a pilot is proficient with a majority of variants of a given mech.

Also the system was initially put in place when we only had IS mechs to deal with to begin with.

I entirely agree that the entire system needs an overhaul... hell we still have the "Conversion" perk in the skill tree which does basically nothing, and hasn't for 2+years now.

I'm no fat-cat anymore, And I understand the frustration, but personally I understand the reasoning behind "learn 3 of a chassis's variations to master it" and it mostly makes sense. My frustration comes from the mech skill tree in general and how broken it is.