42 replies to this topic

[Navid A1]

I start off this thread with this famous quote from APR 2013:

Bryan Ekman @ ATD 35 said:

CCQ 3: Why is Machine Gun damage so low?
A: Partly due to the nature of how MGs work in the TT rules, partially due to how we chose to make it useful. When equipping a MG, keep in mind that it is not meant to burn through armor but is very useful for tearing up internals (crits). Bumping MG damage will turn it into a laser that can be kept on with no heat penalty until it runs out of ammo. Now imagine the devastating effect that a 6 MG spider could do to the back of an Atlas! We are still investigating balance of the MG but don’t expect any significant increase in damage.

In this example, Bryan says that bumping up the MG damage is like turning those into a continous firing laser that only turns off when it is out of ammo.


Lets for a moment assume that a spider with 6 MGs exists. A spider with 6 of those machine guns (before the nerf) would have been able to output 6 dps up to the optimum range of 120m (with cof).
Now imagine the said spider going for the back of that unsuspecting atlas sitting over there. The spider would need about 10 second of constant MG fire from (literally) point blank directly to the rear CT.

If the atlas pilot possess half a brain and starts turning and twisting, that time will go even higher than a minute and that is assuming the atlas not firing back. It should also be noted that firing your MGs that close to the atlas means constant face time and danger of being insta-fcked by that scary AC20+SRM combo.

Appearantly, that kind of situation is a "Devastaing Effect" against the atlas... according to Bryan.



Now... Can anyone here tell me, by what standard the same devs at PGI think the devastation a single oxide or jenner-IIC or a cheetah can do to THE F*CKING FACE OF the said atlas is OK?
I mean... currently we have lights that can finish off assault mechs in 2 salvos without needing face time or sneaking, and sometimes even head-on!.

By what standard PGI thinks bumping the MG damage from 0.08 to 0.1 or 0.12 is somehow more dangerous than the giga-alpha jenner-iic that is running around?

Edited by Navid A1, 14 November 2016 - 06:43 PM.

[Juodas Varnas]

It's just PGI being PGI.

[Khobai]

machine guns were fine before at 1 dps

they would be fine again at 1 dps

they should be buffed upto 1 dps again

[Yosharian]

Navid A1, on 06 May 2016 - 11:30 PM, said:

I start off this thread with this famous quote from APR 2013:


In this example, Bryan says that bumping up the MG damage is like turning those into a continous firing laser that only turns off when it is out of ammo.
Considering the MG stats before the 2013 nerf... that laser would have been like a small laser that deals 0.75 damage and can be fired with no cooldown.

A spider with 6 of those machine guns would have been able to output 6 dps up to the optimum range of 120m (with cof).
Now imagine the said spider going for the back of that unsuspecting atlas sitting over there. The spider would need about 10 second of constant MG fire from point blank directly to the rear CT.

If the atlas pilot possess half a brain and starts turning and twisting, that time will go even higher than 20 or even 30 seconds and that is assuming the atlas not firing back. It should also be noted that firing your MGs that close to the atlas means constant face time and danger of being insta-fcked by that scary AC20+SRM combo.

Appearantly, that kind of situation is a "Devastaing Effect" according to Bryan.



Now... Can anyone here tell me, by what standard the same devs at PGI think the devastation a single oxide or jenner-IIC or a cheetah can do to THE FACE OF the said atlas is OK?
I mean... currently we have lights that can finish off assault mechs in a few salvos without needing face time ore sneaking, and sometimes even head-on!.

By what standard PGI thinks bumping the MG damage from 0.08 to 0.1 or 0.12 is somehow more dangerous than the giga-alpha jenner-iic that is running around?

You're forgetting one crucial thing:

Buffing MGs doesn't get PGI any money

[Seal Farmer]

6 MGs sound scary to me, pls nerf more.

[Satan n stuff]

Yosharian, on 06 May 2016 - 11:42 PM, said:

You're forgetting one crucial thing:

Buffing MGs doesn't get PGI any money

Of course it does, you don't think there will be more mechs released with more ballistic hardpoints than they can use for ACs?

[Nyte Kitsune]

No, 6 MG's isn't scary, the Piranah at 12 MG's is Scary, Mind, My Mauler carries 6 MGs (and is great for killing those pesky lights trying to attack it)

[Yosharian]

Satan n stuff, on 06 May 2016 - 11:55 PM, said:

Of course it does, you don't think there will be more mechs released with more ballistic hardpoints than they can use for ACs?

So?

[cazidin]

Khobai, on 06 May 2016 - 11:33 PM, said:

machine guns would've been fine before at 2 dps

they would be fine again at 2 dps

they should be buffed upto 2 dps

FTFY

Edited by cazidin, 07 May 2016 - 07:04 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

Who the hell knows. I would guess this is what happens when some kind of executive tries to answer a question that would be best answered by his workers / employees. He wasn't really involved in the process and tried to sound like he knew what he was talking about.

But who the hell knows, really. Maybe he was actually running things, based on spreadsheets and Paul had just shown him a line diagram and a scary Excel pie chart that persuaded them MGs were OP.

[The Amazing Spider Man]

Using the 5K as a base (because a 6 MG spider doesn't exist) I come up with 2-5 tons of ammo. I assume no other hardpoints and use 5 jj. Enough to last an entire round, maybe, but it's just a gimmick and mediocre.

Spiders don't like facetime, hence the mask.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Shhhhhh.... My 6srm6 jenner IIC is fine. Ignore the warhawk I just 1 shot. Its pilot is a well known liar.

[Satan n stuff]

Yosharian, on 07 May 2016 - 06:15 AM, said:

So?

So buffing MGs would make those mechs more valuable and more of them would be sold.

[Mcgral18]

Do you have the specific time in 2013?
Because they had 0.04 damage for half that year

Before being buffed to our current MG damage


So, 2.4 DPS from 6 MGs, what 3 MGs currently gets you.
That would take 4 seconds to break through 10 points of rear armour...

[DAYLEET]

Navid A1, on 06 May 2016 - 11:30 PM, said:

Now... Can anyone here tell me, by what standard the same devs at PGI think the devastation a single oxide or jenner-IIC or a cheetah can do to THE FACE OF the said atlas is OK?

Dev 1: Light queue is really low. How can we get more people to pilot lights?

Dev2: NEED MORE CHEESE!!!

back in 2013 there was no need to increase lights on the battlefield and the insane powercreep had not happened

[Rogue Jedi]

Where can I get one of those 6 MG Spiders?

My 5K with an ERLL and 4 MGs has killed a fresh Stalker inside 4 seconds when I get lucky with the crits, if I had 6 that thing would be very overpowered much like the 2 LPL 6 MG Shadow Cat.

MGs are powerful enough but I certainly would not complain to them being made more powerful.

[Mcgral18]

Rogue Jedi, on 07 May 2016 - 09:25 AM, said:

very overpowered much like the 2 LPL 6 MG Shadow Cat.

[MacKJames]

If not a damage buff I'd at least like to see a range buff.

[Mcgral18]

MacKJames, on 07 May 2016 - 09:56 AM, said:

If not a damage buff I'd at least like to see a range buff.

Range is the better part of worthless because of the CoF


Removal of the CoF would be a wonderful buff.

[MacKJames]

Mcgral18, on 07 May 2016 - 10:00 AM, said:

Range is the better part of worthless because of the CoF


Removal of the CoF would be a wonderful buff.

That's true. It's been a long time since I've used the MGs so I've forgotten a lot about how they work. I read another discussion talking about them and I heard that the MGs have hitscan. Is that true? I thought I remembered them working like the ACs and the rounds had travel time.