46 replies to this topic

[Hanky Spam]

as topic says...

Imho faction play is a bit more "special" than quick play and it happened way too often lately that absolute beginners ruined - at least for me - a faction match.

So do I suggest/wish that PGI introduces a Tier level minimum requirement like lets say: all pilots need to be level 3, or for my sake level 4, although I think that level 3 pilots should very well know what to do in a match and what not to do.

Discuss!

[BattleBunny]

It will increase the wait times that , outside of events, are already pretty damn bad.

[Willard Phule]

But my LRMs help lots! And you're supposed to be nice to me and teach me how to play (each and every map, by the way, not the ones you choose).

[Iron Buccaneer]

Oh no you lost a match because of a new or bad player. How awful for you. Please let's all have a moment of silence for this guy....

[Hanky Spam]

BattleBunny, on 08 May 2016 - 09:49 AM, said:

It will increase the wait times that , outside of events, are already pretty damn bad.

Wait times are currently ok'ish, though this might be also related to the personal challenge that is currently running...

And about the unnecessary comment of iron: if you do loose multiple times in a row because around 6 players of your team is only doing ~400 dmg with 4 mechs and the same **** is happening again and again (approx ~15 matches), THEN you are becoming at some point frustrated and this for a valid reason... and before someone smart thinks "dmg is not everything", it's of course not everything...
You can take down Omega in Invasion mode with low dmg and win the match even with 300 dmg, at least in theory. It's just bad that FW is not always playing invasion mode, you also have to defend and hold territory and then again a good amount of dmg is not unimportant.

However, I dont claim that this idea about Tier requirement is the ultimate solution, of course not. It is just an idea to keep the bloodiest beginners away, because you can also gain your first MWO experience in quickplay - imho.

Maybe the overall situation will get better after the challenge has ended, we will see...

[Iron Buccaneer]

I'm not a try harder. You get tiered play in quick play. The FW population is too low. If you have played it much you would know that.

[Palfatreos]

quick play =/= FW

there are some stuff that not learned in quickplay (sharing armor, priority in fighting or objectives, push and counterpushes,...)
Using tier for FW only delaying the problem that people don't understand FW difference it doesn't solve it.

[Willard Phule]

Iron Buccaneer, on 08 May 2016 - 02:11 PM, said:

I'm not a try harder. You get tiered play in quick play. The FW population is too low. If you have played it much you would know that.

That's just the thing....the population in FW is NOT too low, it's poorly organized.

Instead of 2 "Factions" (IS and Clan), we have 10 "Factions." Clan on Clan crap should NOT be happening. We're supposed to have an Ilkhan, hence the reason for the invasion in the first place....but, whatever.

There can be dedicated sub-faction (Steiner, Marik, Wolf, etc) stuff as well as a "general faction reinforcement" queue. Sort of a "I don't care where you put me, just put me somewhere" thing. If they did that, you'd see that there are more than enough people to support the type of gameplay that's happening there right now.

Granted, the type of gameplay is kind of crappy, since it's overrun by the inexperienced and new. But, that's always been PGI's gameplay design...the better you are, the more you have to carry.

[Iron Buccaneer]

If they want to keep the total newbies out they should ban trial mechs from Faction Warfare. Personally though I don't care. You win some and loose some. You will win more by playing as a team in larger units or going to your faction hub to group with bigger units. It's a team oriented mode far more so than the hide and peak of the lower teirs of quick play.

[Hanky Spam]

Iron Buccaneer, on 08 May 2016 - 02:11 PM, said:

I'm not a try harder. You get tiered play in quick play. The FW population is too low. If you have played it much you would know that.

I know that I get tiered via quick play, dont worry
Otherwise I would also have noticed any progress (positive/negative) through my FW matches and that did not happen

It's true, I am kinda new to FW because quickplay became "not that interesting" anymore, so I've started playing FW, so I dunno about the FW population and the average wait time for FW matches but I've noticed, that since the event the average wait time has pretty much decreased to 1-2 minutes, before it was like 10 minutes and sometimes even longer. With Clan Wolf I had at least no ghostdrops anymore for the last 4-5 days...

Iron Buccaneer, on 08 May 2016 - 04:49 PM, said:

If they want to keep the total newbies out they should ban trial mechs from Faction Warfare. Personally though I don't care. You win some and loose some. You will win more by playing as a team in larger units or going to your faction hub to group with bigger units. It's a team oriented mode far more so than the hide and peak of the lower teirs of quick play.

Banning trial mechs from FW sounds also interesting, but then again you must support newbies somehow else, because most Clan Mechs are pretty expensive while the IS counter parts are pretty inexpensive. A solution for this could be to give such players some kind of discount for their first 4 mechs, Clan and IS gets a 50% (or 66%/33% ?) C-Bill discount, dunno if this could work.


Anyway... browsing the forum shows me that there seems to be generally something wrong with Faction Warfare but it seems to be also difficult to fix, dunno if there even is a "ultimate solution" at all.

[Iron Buccaneer]

Clan Wolf has a few very active are large Faction War units. Not to mention SWOL in particular are a pretty friendly lot. CWI, SWOL, and others but not all the factions have the same population. Try taking a tour with the Smoke Jags when large Merc units aren't dropping with them or Liao and find out what it is like to constantly get body blocked and shot in the back by their most successful unit.

The event has also skewed the population as everyone in their brother is playing to get the rewards and PGI in their infinite wisdom decided to open the new Faction Warfare with a grind like crazy event which leads to a lot of solo minded players regardless of their tier ignoring what their group is trying to do in favor of scoring "points" especially PGI's favorite stat Kill most damage dealt which can most easily be achieved by poking and sniping from range while your team mates tank damage trying to win.

A finished IS mech cost quite a bit as well. Clan mechs are also easily configured with Omni pods so you can buy three or four different chassis to elite/master them then build them with pretty much the same build. If I like a Thunderbolt 9SE and I want 3 in my drop deck I have to buy 5 Thunderbolts, grind three chassis up to at least finished elite, and customize them to be worth while in the semi competitive FW environment.

[Willard Phule]

Iron Buccaneer, on 09 May 2016 - 02:18 AM, said:

A finished IS mech cost quite a bit as well. Clan mechs are also easily configured with Omni pods so you can buy three or four different chassis to elite/master them then build them with pretty much the same build. If I like a Thunderbolt 9SE and I want 3 in my drop deck I have to buy 5 Thunderbolts, grind three chassis up to at least finished elite, and customize them to be worth while in the semi competitive FW environment.

Everything "Clan" costs double what IS tech costs....yet, it has been "balanced" to make it equal with what the IS has. Biggest difference is the fact that we can't swap engines. That, all by itself, makes the increased cost of Omni-technology a complete waste of cbills due to PGI's rampant "balancing."

If we could swap engines, everything....EVERYTHING....would be different.

[Palor]

I think if they added a minimum # of drops completed to unlock FP, that would help a bit. Like 200-500 or so, then these new players have some experience and can contribute some to their teams.

[meteorol]

Willard Phule, on 09 May 2016 - 07:00 AM, said:

Everything "Clan" costs double what IS tech costs....yet, it has been "balanced" to make it equal with what the IS has.

After you upgraded IS mechs with endo, dhs and bought something like a XL 350, the price difference between IS and clan mechs is not as large as it seems. A timber is like 15m cbills, a standard meta BK is 14.2m when using a 350xl (both values before adding weapons).

That aside the price is a pretty useless factor for balance, because time is the only limiting factor to how much cbills you can get.

[nehebkau]

ladiesman712, on 07 May 2016 - 10:53 PM, said:

as topic says...

Imho faction play is a bit more "special" than quick play and it happened way too often lately that absolute beginners ruined - at least for me - a faction match.

So do I suggest/wish that PGI introduces a Tier level minimum requirement like lets say: all pilots need to be level 3, or for my sake level 4, although I think that level 3 pilots should very well know what to do in a match and what not to do.

Discuss!

you are under the impression that the PSR is an actual indication of skill. It is more of an indicator of "Plays the game a lot" or "Plays in the group queue often".

[Banditman]

Willard Phule, on 09 May 2016 - 07:00 AM, said:

Everything "Clan" costs double what IS tech costs....yet, it has been "balanced" to make it equal with what the IS has. Biggest difference is the fact that we can't swap engines. That, all by itself, makes the increased cost of Omni-technology a complete waste of cbills due to PGI's rampant "balancing."

If we could swap engines, everything....EVERYTHING....would be different.

This is a complete misrepresentation of reality.

Yes, the upfront cost for a Clan mech is more, but I've done extensive studies of this because it matters to the new players that join our unit. The actual truth is that Clan tech and IS tech are pretty equivalent in total cost. People tend to forget that the IS mechs typically don't carry Endo Steel or DHS by default, and that cost is a substantial upfit to the base mech price.

Generally Clan mechs cost about 20% more than an equivalent IS mech. Typically IS mechs are more durable, Clan mechs carry more firepower. Yes, there are some imbalances that exist in certain scenarios, but cost isn't too wacky. I wouldn't mind seeing it tweaked a little, but to say that it's "double" is well beyond the confines of reality and into uneducated guessing and hyperbole.

[Solarise]

Tiers only reflect leveling up exp, does not means skill in aiming.

[Pugger]

Am I the only one more or less satisfied with CW3? Does it need work? Yes, it's an ongoing effort. Have I noticed substantial improvement to population, involvement and immersion? Again, yes.

Steps in the right direction. This is a company with a small staff, against a learning curve, making smart steps in the right direction. I, for one, am pleased.

The only thing missing to satisfy a functional framework is the meta-game. The end-state, or winning condition, to the playing environment, i.e. the map. Have this trigger a map reset and reward or whatever. Sjorpha is the first person I know of to first point this out, and I completely agree.

Edited by Pugger, 09 May 2016 - 10:53 AM.

[Iron Buccaneer]

I think it's a good foundation. But it needs some more work. For the most part it was in improvement but it will be hard to judge until after the event when a lot of these players will go back to Quickplay.

[Pugger]

Iron Buccaneer, on 09 May 2016 - 08:53 AM, said:

I think it's a good foundation. But it needs some more work. For the most part it was in improvement but it will be hard to judge until after the event when a lot of these players will go back to Quickplay.

Agreed