37 replies to this topic

[Afuldan McKronik]

So, Clan Omni mechs that don't do well get some minor quirks (WHK, MLX), all IS mechs get quirks in one form or another, the IIC might get minor quirks and the Kodiak has some variants that will recieve quirks.

Is this a marketing tactic or balancing act? How many pilots decided to buy the Kodiac now that some of the variants will recieve quirks? Will quirks affect sales of IIC packages?

It seems that mechs that have favorable quirks seem to be popular regardless of hardpoints, if the quirkening is strong. Black Knight, as the biggest example of this. One of the strongest IS heavies, only due to quirks. I understand that quirks are how the game is balanced.

If the Kodiacs needed quirks, why did they not all get them?

[Van Hoven]

I dont know... people really buying the Kodiaks only because they have some movement and minor structure quirks? If they'd really wanted to force people into buying them they should have given it some dakka quirks

[ScarecrowES]

Buying mechs based on quirks is setting yourself up for disappointment. Nothing remains static in this game for long. Whatever has uber-awesome performance today is on tomorrows nerf list.

One thing you have to get used to about the status quo in MWO is that there is no status quo.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Van Hoven, on 14 May 2016 - 05:10 PM, said:

I dont know... people really buying the Kodiaks only because they have some movement and minor structure quirks? If they'd really wanted to force people into buying them they should have given it some dakka quirks

Why buff only some of the variants? If what, 4 needed them, why not the other two? It doesn't make sense other than someone is afraid of quirking a C-Laser vomit mech? If 4 variants tested squishy, why not the 2?

[Wintersdark]

Afuldan McKronik, on 14 May 2016 - 05:03 PM, said:

If the Kodiacs needed quirks, why did they not all get them?

well, because PGI felt the 1 and 5 where the strongest (incorrectly, because PGI) so they left quirks off them rather than risking them being OP.

[Afuldan McKronik]

ScarecrowES, on 14 May 2016 - 05:11 PM, said:

Buying mechs based on quirks is setting yourself up for disappointment. Nothing remains static in this game for long. Whatever has uber-awesome performance today is on tomorrows nerf list.

One thing you have to get used to about the status quo in MWO is that there is no status quo.

It just seems that is what they are trying, to get the holdouts to buy Kodiaks less than 5 days before release.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Wintersdark, on 14 May 2016 - 05:15 PM, said:

well, because PGI felt the 1 and 5 where the strongest (incorrectly, because PGI) so they left quirks off them rather than risking them being OP.

Really, it should have been minor quirks across the variants that all match, rather than single out the two mechs that probably will need them the most. C-Laser duration, oh how do I hate you sometimes.

[MechWarrior319348]

ScarecrowES, on 14 May 2016 - 05:11 PM, said:

Buying mechs based on quirks is setting yourself up for disappointment. Nothing remains static in this game for long. Whatever has uber-awesome performance today is on tomorrows nerf list.

One thing you have to get used to about the status quo in MWO is that there is no status quo.

I feel pretty damn satisfied when I buy a mech specifically for quirks. The Jager with 27% ultra ac5 cooldown, and -35% jam chance is insane. Ever see the locust with the ultra auto large pulse laser?

PPC quirks now apply to PPC and ERPPC. That's awesome.

I also have lots of secret little builds I dont want to discuss.

But it seems to me that when they apply quirks to clan mechs, 90% of the time the quirks are meant to nerf them.

[ScarecrowES]

Afuldan McKronik, on 14 May 2016 - 05:20 PM, said:

It just seems that is what they are trying, to get the holdouts to buy Kodiaks less than 5 days before release.

Other than the agility quirks, the very minor structure quirks might as well be non-existent. We've had 50-tonners that received bigger structure quirks. More likely than not, this is PGI attempting to balance by "feels" using extremely limited internal play testing. So pretty much situation normal over there.

You gotta figure, most of their dev team doesn't actually play the game. Few that do on a fairly regular basis are even any good. Using the opinions of biased players with limited exposure inside of the actual live game that aren't very good it is always a recipe for a really skewed perspective. Balance gets done based on what "feels" true inside of that very special, insular world. Not really the world that you and I play in.

And of course, if a mech comes out that needs quirk but doesn't have them out of the box, players cry. If a mech comes out that has quirks out of the box but doesn't need them, players cry. If a mech has one set of quirks but needs a different set, players cry. If a mech comes out that doesn't have quirks and doesn't need them... or has quirks and does need them... guess what? Yup... players cry. From PGI's perspective, they're damned if they do and if they don't. They're going to take flak either way... best they can hope for is to guess and come kinda close to the mark. Even if they get it exactly right and it's a complete home run, players WILL cry.

[ScarecrowES]

Delta 62, on 14 May 2016 - 05:31 PM, said:

I feel pretty damn satisfied when I buy a mech specifically for quirks. The Jager with 27% ultra ac5 cooldown, and -35% jam chance is insane. Ever see the locust with the ultra auto large pulse laser?

PPC quirks now apply to PPC and ERPPC. That's awesome.

I also have lots of secret little builds I dont want to discuss.

But it seems to me that when they apply quirks to clan mechs, 90% of the time the quirks are meant to nerf them.

Most of the mechs you're talking about didn't historically have those quirks. The Jag? Those ballistic quirks? Those came WELL after the launch of that mech, and have changed quite a bit since their initial implementation. My point was, if you buy a mech based on whatever the quirks are that day, you're going to find that in a month, 6 months, whenever... they'll be different.

Hell, once the rescales are out in June, expect that the whole quirk set across ALL mechs is going to see a serious reworking. Want to talk about status quos changing... this will probably be the biggest shift since the Clans came along.

[Afuldan McKronik]

ScarecrowES, on 14 May 2016 - 05:36 PM, said:

Most of the mechs you're talking about didn't historically have those quirks. The Jag? Those ballistic quirks? Those came WELL after the launch of that mech, and have changed quite a bit since their initial implementation. My point was, if you buy a mech based on whatever the quirks are that day, you're going to find that in a month, 6 months, whenever... they'll be different.

Hell, once the rescales are out in June, expect that the whole quirk set across ALL mechs is going to see a serious reworking. Want to talk about status quos changing... this will probably be the biggest shift since the Clans came along.

The Locust better not get any bigger. The Bug needs his tinyness.

[ScarecrowES]

Afuldan McKronik, on 14 May 2016 - 05:39 PM, said:

The Locust better not get any bigger. The Bug needs his tinyness.

Smaller, actually. It's getting smaller. The current model is 12% oversized. It's one of the most oversized mechs in the game.

[Andi Nagasia]

will it affect some people buying it?
perhaps, those who havent opted to get it yet,

personally i cant see Buying a Mech Based on Quirks,
as Everyone knows Quirks arnt set in stone and Can change at a moments notice,

i think PGI wants to have a Balanced Game,
so i think they are looking to Give it only what they believe it needs,
will these Starter Quirks Change, Absolutely, QA testing cant account for 100% of lives Reaction,
so we will have to see how it pans out,

[Tarl Cabot]

They should just triple instead of the initial doubling the armor/structural points. Then rework weapons based on tech, increasing the cooldown timer on long range energy weapons.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 14 May 2016 - 06:22 PM.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Tarl Cabot, on 14 May 2016 - 06:12 PM, said:

They should just triple instead of the initial doubling the armor/structural points. Then rework weapons based on tech, increasing the cooldown timer on long range energy weapons.

I like the idea of balancing from the chassis up, based on chassis. Durability and maneuverability quirks. Then change weapon balance globally, not with offensive quirks.

[Triordinant]

Delta 62, on 14 May 2016 - 05:31 PM, said:

The Jager with 27% ultra ac5 cooldown, and -35% jam chance is insane.

PPC quirks now apply to PPC and ERPPC. That's awesome.

If you're going to use numbers it's very important that they're correct. The JM6-DD Jager has 10% cooldown for all ballistics and 30% reduced jam chance for the UAC 5. PPC quirks do NOT apply to ERPPCs and vice-versa. The TDR-9S ERPPC quirks (for example) do not apply to PPCs.

Edited by Triordinant, 14 May 2016 - 06:49 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

ScarecrowES, on 14 May 2016 - 05:11 PM, said:

Buying mechs based on quirks is setting yourself up for disappointment. Nothing remains static in this game for long. Whatever has uber-awesome performance today is on tomorrows nerf list.

One thing you have to get used to about the status quo in MWO is that there is no status quo.

Like the Oxide Nerf, amiright?

[Col Jaime Wolf]

Triordinant, on 14 May 2016 - 06:49 PM, said:

If you're going to use numbers it's very important that they're correct. The JM6-DD Jager has 10% cooldown for all ballistics and 30% reduced jam chance for the UAC 5. PPC quirks do NOT apply to ERPPCs and vice-versa. The TDR-9S ERPPC quirks (for example) do not apply to PPCs.

while your right on that first part, ppc quirks (and all energy quirks) apply to ppcs and erppcs i can confirm this with my warhammers for one.

erppc quirks generally do not apply to ppcs, but most mechs just have ppc quirks now.

Edited by Col Jaime Wolf, 14 May 2016 - 07:35 PM.

[Ace Selin]

Afuldan McKronik, on 14 May 2016 - 05:03 PM, said:

So, Clan Omni mechs that don't do well get some minor quirks (WHK, MLX), all IS mechs get quirks in one form or another, the IIC might get minor quirks and the Kodiak has some variants that will recieve quirks.

Is this a marketing tactic or balancing act? How many pilots decided to buy the Kodiac now that some of the variants will recieve quirks? Will quirks affect sales of IIC packages?

It seems that mechs that have favorable quirks seem to be popular regardless of hardpoints, if the quirkening is strong. Black Knight, as the biggest example of this. One of the strongest IS heavies, only due to quirks. I understand that quirks are how the game is balanced.

If the Kodiacs needed quirks, why did they not all get them?

Oh Cmon, its easy to see why, PGI fears the 8 ERPPC Kodiak & rightly so as its going smash face.
The other Kodiak to watch for is the 10 Large Pulse Kodiak, cracking CTs & STs like nobody's business.
These mechs were right to not get quirks.

Edited by Ace Selin, 14 May 2016 - 09:03 PM.

[Triordinant]

Col Jaime Wolf, on 14 May 2016 - 07:34 PM, said:

while your right on that first part, ppc quirks (and all energy quirks) apply to ppcs and erppcs i can confirm this with my warhammers for one.

erppc quirks generally do not apply to ppcs, but most mechs just have ppc quirks now.

You're right about Energy quirks applying to both PPCs and ERPPCs but according to both the Mechlab and Smurfy's the PPC only and ERPPC only quirks are mutually exclusive. Is there an official dev post or MWO announcement anywhere that says PPC quirks affect ERPPCs? Personal experience doesn't count.