16 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

List of soon to be Available IS OmniMechs,
Raptor(25Ton(3052)(11.5FreeTons)(175XL(118kph),
Owens(35Ton(3056)(10.5FreeTons)(280XL(129kph)
Strider(40Ton(3057)(14FreeTons)(240STD(97kph)
BlackHawk-KU(60Ton(3055)(17FreeTons)(300XL(86kph),
Avatar(70Ton(3056)(37FreeTons)(280XL(64kph)
Sunder(90Ton(3056)(36FreeTons)(360XL(64kph),

do you think they will be Viable with Current MWO OmniConstruction Rules?
Assuming Locked HeatSinks, Equipment, Engines, & Upgrades,

Or Do you think They will get Huge Quirks to Be Viable?
Perhaps some of their Locked Equipment will be Removable?
Owens=Removal of Locked BAP, C3, Tag on the Owens(+3.5Ton),
Strider=Removal of Locked 2Case on the Strider(+1Ton),
Avatar=Removal of Locked 2ML & 2Case on the Avatar(+3Ton),

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks


Thanks- SpiralFace,
Didnt even know i said it like that,
i ment Locked in Chassis HeatSinks,
Fixed for Clarity,

Edit- HeatSinks Rewritten Added

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 15 May 2016 - 04:23 PM.

[SpiralFace]

Might want to check those double heat sinks chief. The strider in particular is going to be DOA for the simple fact that in cannon, it packs singles.

[Mcgral18]

How are they going to be?

Quirked

They're going to be quirked.

[cazidin]

Mcgral18, on 15 May 2016 - 04:09 PM, said:

How are they going to be?

DOA

They're going to be DOA.

FTFY.

[Zerberus]

No concerns, this was always the basic difference between a Battlemech and an Omnimech.

BM: everything can be chan ged, but you may need a mech factory to do so (which apparently our "jumpship" fulfills the functionality of)
Omni: major components are hardwired, but anything in the pods is fair game. In TT the Major advantage was in campaigns, where an atlas would take a week ot be repaired but a dire wolf could be repaired and refitted with a completelely different weapons loadout in 2-3 hours.

Not having any form of extended campaign basically reduses teh real world benefit of Omnimechs to Zero. Which is why the pods from different alt configs are now different "variants", and can be freelyswapped to obtain different hardpoints.

I understand the hardpoint limitations on the pods make sense from a balance perspective, but for ex. ECM or AMS was something EVERY omnimech could mount, and that sours it a little bit for me (even though I still understand the reasons, as they are basically the same)

However: In lore it WAS in fact possible to, for example, drop a 350XL into a direwolf. BUT that essentially required teh entire mech to be rewired as a Battlemechz, removing or at least severely hampering it´s omni capability. In some respects, I would do this to many of my Omnis if I could, becasue as it stands (thanks to our mobile superspeedy mechfactory in the sky), a standard battlemech has more customization options open to it than an Omnimech.

But: If the IS is also just as limited as the clans, I see no reason to change the current system, as it does work within the scope of this game. And teh clans also now have Battlemechs that can be customized to the same extent as their IS counterparts, so IS omnis should also be just as customizable as Clan Omnis

Where it gets ugly is when Mixtech starts to get introduced...

Edited by Zerberus, 15 May 2016 - 04:16 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Definitely DOA unless heavily structural quirked due to the current isXL death penalty when compared to cXL limping penalty.

[Mcgral18]

Zerberus, on 15 May 2016 - 04:14 PM, said:

However: In lore it WAS in fact possible to, for example, drop a 350XL into a direwolf

Well...a 200, or a 400

Remember, you could only take engine ratings divisible by your mech weight.
Otherwise correct, can sacrifice Omni Robots to make them Battle Mechs

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

far more balanced imo. as it is omnis are more restricted than battlemechs when its supposed to be the other way around

[Andi Nagasia]

well also if i remember correctly, Any OmniMech can Equip JJ,
also Engine Type was Changeable Later on with the Savage Wolf(C-XXL to C-XL)
(personally i feel Locked Weapons/Case/BAP should be Unlocked as not everyone uses them)
Edit- Spelling

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 15 May 2016 - 04:24 PM.

[TheArisen]

Unless the Omni's that come with single HS get quirked hard, most of these will be junk, like worse than the Vindicator.

[ScarecrowES]

It's a tough balance question to work around... The entire balance of Clan tech vs. IS tech exists the way it is because of the concept of omnis vs battlemechs. There has been a base fallacy that Clan battlemechs would be inherently superior due to the fact that they had both Clan tech and Battlemech flexibility. And thus, they received neither the hardpoint inflation battlemechs receive on the IS side, nor their quirks.

So how do we justify all these balance decisions in the age of IS omnis? And perhaps as good a point, how do we justify the current scope of IS vs Clan weapon balance once the timeline is advanced far enough to incorporate the tech and weapons necessary to make IS omnis work? We gimped Clan tech to keep it roughly on-par with IS tech... once both the IS and Clan get their next gen of tech, they're largely equal by default, without the gimping done to the Clan gen 1 tech.

I have a certain worry that an era of IS omnis would heavily favor the IS.

[Andi Nagasia]

Does anyone Think that OmniRules Should Change?
to allow more Freedom to these OmniMech New Comers,
Such as Unlocking All Locked OmniMech Weapons & Locked Case?

[Metus regem]

Andi Nagasia, on 15 May 2016 - 04:29 PM, said:

Does anyone Think that OmniRules Should Change?
to allow more Freedom to these OmniMech New Comers,
Such as Unlocking All Locked OmniMech Weapons & Locked Case?

What I think is that Omni-mechs should be able to save 2-4 load outs per chassis, and be able to hot swap them during the count down to deployment. This way it mimics the abilities of Omni-mechs in TT.

Edited by Metus regem, 15 May 2016 - 04:35 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Metus regem, on 15 May 2016 - 04:34 PM, said:

What I think is that Omni-mechs should be able to save 2-4 load outs per chassis, and be able to hot swap them during the count down to deployment. This way it mimics the abilities of Omni-mechs in TT.

Perhaps but i dont think it would ever Fly, as People would see that as a Buff to the SCR/TBR,
where as unlocking
BAP/CAP(Benefits the MLX(+1ton) & Owens(+1.5tons) Ect),
HeatSinks(Benefits the NVA(+4ton) & WHK(+7tons) & EXE(+1ton) & DWF(+3tons) Ect),
Weapons(Benefits the ADR(+0.5ton) & Avatar(+2tons) Ect),
Case(Benefits the Strider(+1ton) & Avatar(+1tons) Ect),

All this can be Done and it wouldnt in any way Effect the SCR or TBR or (Omni-Meta-Flavor of the Month)

[Metus regem]

Andi Nagasia, on 15 May 2016 - 04:51 PM, said:

Perhaps but i dont think it would ever Fly, as People would see that as a Buff to the SCR/TBR....

To that I would argue that every Battle Mech having access to a factory level refit center with zero downtime between refits is far more powerful and unbalanced. As with some mechs the difference between variants is often an engine size, Endo Steel/FF or DHS. I find it rather silly that I can take a CN9-A and make it a CN9-D in all respects but engine size, hell I can take that CN9-D and turn it into a CN9-A just as easily.

[Andi Nagasia]

Metus regem, on 15 May 2016 - 05:12 PM, said:

To that I would argue that every Battle Mech having access to a factory level refit center with zero downtime between refits is far more powerful and unbalanced. As with some mechs the difference between variants is often an engine size, Endo Steel/FF or DHS. I find it rather silly that I can take a CN9-A and make it a CN9-D in all respects but engine size, hell I can take that CN9-D and turn it into a CN9-A just as easily.

Agreed but its hard to institute a timer now, but if one existed,
if you have to wait 24Hours after changing a mech that would be interesting,
but that in it self i dont think would Fly Ether, alot of people still think IS sucks and Clan OP,
and thats just not the Case Anymore, but People still Bring up Reasons why Clan is OP,
Such As, Upgrades Taking up less Crits, weapons taking up Less Tons and Crits,

i want a Balanced Game, but sadly good ideas are often lost in the Rabble of Others Complaining,

[Metus regem]

Andi Nagasia, on 15 May 2016 - 05:31 PM, said:

Agreed but its hard to institute a timer now, but if one existed,
if you have to wait 24Hours after changing a mech that would be interesting,
but that in it self i dont think would Fly Ether, alot of people still think IS sucks and Clan OP,
and thats just not the Case Anymore, but People still Bring up Reasons why Clan is OP,
Such As, Upgrades Taking up less Crits, weapons taking up Less Tons and Crits,

i want a Balanced Game, but sadly good ideas are often lost in the Rabble of Others Complaining,

How very true, sadly.

If they ever get to version 2 of MWO, hell I'd settle for 1.0 rather than the .75 we have now, and want to implement a F2P cash grab in the form of making us wait 1-2 hours after we make major adjustments to mechs like changing from standard internals to Endo Steel, with an option to spend MC to skip the waiting I'd be okay with that.


The thing is, some mechs both Clan and IS, are the perfect storm of weight, engine size, Endo/FF, hard point placement and Quirks for IS, that no matter what is done to bring the rest inline those select few will always been seen as OP by those that don't pilot them.

I say that as someone who went Clan -->IS before the Quirkining, and I exploited Clan weaknesses to my advantage, post quirks I often don't see Clan mechs as a challenge to fight any more.