60 replies to this topic

[Sader325]

I always find kill videos in this game to be a little hilarious / absurd.

Guys watch my super skill shot video that is literally 2x slower than most FPS twitch shooters.

[DerMaulwurf]

El Bandito, on 16 May 2016 - 12:57 AM, said:

Just how do you want PGI to bring it back? Be more specific. Do you want ER/PPC heat to be reduced and velocity returned to 2000 m/s? Do you want to revert JJ boost nerf? Do you want to get rid of JJ shake? Do you want to get rid of Ghost Heat? Do you want to get rid of Gauss charge? Do you want Gauss cooldown reduced to 4 seconds? All of the above?

I was there during poptart heyday in 2013 and 2014. I know full well that the poptart meta made the game far more stale that the current meta. I definitely would not want it back 100%. In partial form, I can tolerate.

Since you were around in that time, you should remember that Ghost Heat predated the pop-tart metas.

Actually, Ghost Heat cleared the way for poptarts by killing off the previously dominant AC/40-Jager and QuadPPC-Stalker.

[Bishop Steiner]

Navid A1, on 15 May 2016 - 11:58 PM, said:

I miss those times!






PGI....

Please understand that Victors are not the god-tier mechs from 2013.

Please tell paul we are sorry if we killed him with it

Please bring the victor back! (Only JJ boost and structure buffs will do the job)

Spoiler

Real men remember when this was the dread meta....


Curse you Double Heatsinks! You had to come and ruin everything!!!!

[Bishop Steiner]

Kaeb Odellas, on 16 May 2016 - 12:54 AM, said:

Nooooope nope nope

RIght now SRMs are in a good place place and can compete with the laservomit. Dakka spam works pretty well too.

I don't think the current meta is worse than Poptarting...but people seem to have even less balls now the they did then. General gameplay seems worse on average, but when people actually do something beside camp or nascar things are generally not terribad.

Balance is still wonky, and Quirks, in general a menace to society. But overall weapon/build choice seem moderately better than the average MWO Meta phase.

That said, screw the jumpsniping...I just want my VTR jumpbrawler back.......but that would take a heck of a lot more than just getting my mobility back..... (limiting poptarting is actually rather easy).... at least as long as the current overall TTK is so low, period. (1v1 it's mostly fine, though certain mechs can instagib things maybe a bit too easy... but focus fire is way too easy)

[pattonesque]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 May 2016 - 06:39 AM, said:

That said, screw the jumpsniping...I just want my VTR jumpbrawler back.......but that would take a heck of a lot more than just getting my mobility back..... (limiting poptarting is actually rather easy).... at least as long as the current overall TTK is so low, period. (1v1 it's mostly fine, though certain mechs can instagib things maybe a bit too easy... but focus fire is way too easy)

The Victor really should have a legitimate role in this game as an agile assault brawler. AC/20 + SRMs + ML on a fast assault chassis should be brutal, but the quirks/hitboxes doesn't support it, unfortunately.

[Sjorpha]

pattonesque, on 16 May 2016 - 07:02 AM, said:

The Victor really should have a legitimate role in this game as an agile assault brawler. AC/20 + SRMs + ML on a fast assault chassis should be brutal, but the quirks/hitboxes doesn't support it, unfortunately.

I'm interested to see how much rescale + missile tube fix will help it as a brawler.

[Bishop Steiner]

Sjorpha, on 16 May 2016 - 08:04 AM, said:

I'm interested to see how much rescale + missile tube fix will help it as a brawler.

Can't hurt. But that ability to twist whilst jumping was huge, not just for jumpsniping.

That said, between power creep, focus fire and Aiming for Dummy mechanics, I doubt I'll ever see that happy time again. (mind you we had the latter two, even then, but the power creep, post Clans, post Quirks? Egads.)

[Felicitatem Parco]

Nightshade24, on 16 May 2016 - 04:26 AM, said:

Now if the meta is ever going in the open tanking shots and returning fire and spotting for LRM's now THAT is what I would say bravo to PGI.

LOL.

"If the meta becomes people being stupid and tanking enemy fire, then I would be happy."

Sure, and while we are at it, we should also make everyone wear fluorescent cammo and March in formation at all times. Then we can form squares when the enemy charges with cavalry and push them back with our Pikemen.

[Clit Beastwood]

Navid A1, on 15 May 2016 - 11:58 PM, said:

I miss those times!






PGI....

Please understand that Victors are not the god-tier mechs from 2013.

Please tell paul we are sorry if we killed him with it

Please bring the victor back! (Only JJ boost and structure buffs will do the job)

Spoiler

gawd I miss it so much...

Bring back poptarting, keep lazors strong, let SRMS stand, and speed up lrms and flatten trajectories for LOS. If everything is OP, nothing is OP - right?
Honestly, I know it's more work than people realize, but wouldn't it be nice if PGI did a test server weekend where they'd crank things up to "let's see what happens" levels? I know it wouldn't be for everyone. I know it costs money for the test servers, but shoot, I'd spend some money to play for the "WTF Weekends". I'm willing to bet that people who loved playing counterstrike with sv_gravity and other environmental changes would be on board too. I don't mind being charged for this - that way it wouldn't spill over and mess up the game for people not looking for the changes, and it could help fund the running of the servers. I know this probably won't be read by PGI, but man... One weekend a month or something? Sign me up.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

I'm ok with making assault and heavy JJ useful again. I just want forced forward movement while jumping to balance out the height.

[Bishop Steiner]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 16 May 2016 - 09:06 AM, said:

I'm ok with making assault and heavy JJ useful again. I just want forced forward movement while jumping to balance out the height.

JJs should allow for initial direction jumping. Not correctable in flight unless with a semi wing or some units like the Spider, Stalking Spider or Venom that could manipulate in flight.

But not being able to jump BACK, or to the side? Seems silly to me.

[LowSubmarino]

Juodas Varnas, on 16 May 2016 - 12:22 AM, said:

Yeah, i think i liked this meta more than the current hill-humping laser vomit nonsense.

What are you talking about?

I see a lot of very varied builds. And laser vomit is most certainly not the only absolutely viable strat out there.

My most effective loadout atm is not a laser vomit build.

[Mister Blastman]

Here's the thing about MWO and it is a bitter pill to look at...

The way Battletech's armor system is designed, anything over 20 pts of damage pinpoint breaks it.

"But Blastman, they doubled the armor in MWO!"

You're right. They did double the armor. And now we have 50 - 60 pt fast pinpoint laser alphas... and those put it to about 25 - 30 pts when you convert.

"But Blastman! When jump sniping was big, we only had 30 - 45 pt pinpoint FLD!"

That too, is correct. A CTF 3D might of packed 35 or so before the gauss charge and de-sync, and afterwards dropped to 30 with PPCS+AC5s or PPCS+AC10, while the HGN 733C was PPCs+UAC5s or PPCs+AC20. But gone was the triple PPC + gauss (a monster).

Typically the average pinpoint salvo was 30 or so pts of damage aside from the VTR above with the AC20 or the sometimes used Dragonslayers with PPCs+Gauss.

So let's say it dropped from 35 - 45 pts on average over time to 30 - 40 pts on average over time.

It was still too much--even with doubled armor, it was too much--but mostly due to concentrated fire. When you had eight or ten 'mechs firing PPFLD at a lone robit, or even another team of robits, they would explode. It was a problem but primarily in a group setting. It COULD be abused 1v1 but not quite as much if the other robit could close until... wub came along. Wub murdered the PPFLD because wub is still almost PPFLD.

(Pinpoint Front Loaded Damage)

"So what's your point Blastman? You're blathering like some deranged basement dweller talking about cheeto bags of old you found buried beneath the couch back in 1991 that you studied keenly and were amazed that the half-eaten cheeseburger patty from McDonald's laying beside it still hadn't developed mold..."

I still don't know why the burger never grew mold. My advice on that is to not eat McDonalds. Oh, sorry, I'm off topic again... My point is, if 30 - 40 pts PPFLD was a problem then, it STILL is a problem now. Except, we have 50 - 60 pts of focused lasers. And we have slower PPCs and autocannons.

Wait, hold on...

We have SLOWER PPCs and AUTOCANNONS.

Hmm.

I like what someone else mentioned here... boost jets back to their original values so assaults can fly again, double the jet recharge rate back up to pre-nerf levels and ONE MORE THING...

"OH stop it Blastman, your ideas suck!"

Quiet. Thank you. Here's the one more thing...

Remove or dramatically nerf terrain movement penalties for non-jet 'mechs. If it is a chassis that can't mount jets, have it excel it running over hills and bumpy terrain.

"Ohhhhh..."

SO, to summarize:

1. Remove jump-jet nerfs to vertical speed and time
2. Remove jump-jet recharge nerfs so they charge nice and fast like before
3. Remove terrain movement penalties for non-jj using 'mechs

There you have it. Let's try it for science.

BONUS request:

Remove 12v12 and put it back to 8v8. Less concentrated fire means you yourself can have a stronger influence on the outcome of each game.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 16 May 2016 - 01:05 PM.

[Dawnstealer]

Dragon Slayer was an absolute monster, yes. And I miss the time when Highlanders were scary. Ah well.

[LowSubmarino]

Mister Blastman, on 16 May 2016 - 09:22 AM, said:

Here's the thing about MWO and it is a bitter pill to look at...

The way Battletech's armor system is designed, anything over 20 pts of damage pinpoint breaks it.

"But Blastman, they doubled the armor in MWO!"

You're right. They did double the armor. And now we have 50 - 60 pt fast pinpoint laser alphas... and those put it to about 25 - 30 pts when you convert.

"But Blastman! When jump sniping was big, we only had 30 - 45 pt pinpoint FLD!"

That too, is correct. A CTF 3D might of packed 35 or so before the gauss charge and de-sync, and afterwards dropped to 30 with PPCS+AC5s or PPCS+AC10, while the HGN 733C was PPCs+UAC5s or PPCs+AC20. But gone was the triple PPC + gauss (a monster).

Typically the average pinpoint salvo was 30 or so pts of damage aside from the VTR above with the AC20 or the sometimes used Dragonslayers with PPCs+Gauss.

So let's say it dropped from 35 - 45 pts on average over time to 30 - 40 pts on average over time.

It was still too much--even with doubled armor, it was too much--but mostly due to concentrated fire. When you had eight or ten 'mechs firing PPFLD at a lone robit, or even another team of robits, they would explode. It was a problem but primarily in a group setting. It COULD be abused 1v1 but not quite as much if the other robit could close until... wub came along. Wub murdered the PPFLD because wub is still almost PPFLD.

(Pinpoint Front Loaded Damage)

"So what's your point Blastman? You're blathering like some deranged basement dweller talking about cheeto bags of old you found buried beneath the couch back in 1991 that you studied keenly and were amazed that the half-eaten cheeseburger patty from McDonald's laying beside it still hadn't developed mold yet..."

I still don't know why the burger never grew mold. My advice on that is to not eat McDonalds. Oh, sorry, I'm off topic again... My point is, if 30 - 40 pts PPFLD was a problem then, it STILL is a problem now. Except, we have 50 - 60 pts of focused lasers. And we have slower PPCs and autocannons.

Wait, hold on...

We have SLOWER PPCs and AUTOCANNONS.

Hmm.

I like what someone else mentioned here... boost jets back to their original values so assaults can fly again, double the jet recharge rate back up to pre-nerf levels and ONE MORE THING...

"OH stop it Blastman, your ideas suck!"

Quiet. Thank you. Here's the one more thing...

Remove or dramatically nerf terrain movement penalties for non-jet 'mechs. If it is a chassis that can't mount jets, have it excel it running over hills and bumpy terrain.

"Ohhhhh..."

SO, to summarize:

1. Remove jump-jet nerfs to vertical speed and time
2. Remove jump-jet recharge nerfs so they charge nice and fast like before
3. Remove terrain movement penalties for non-jj using 'mechs

There you have it. Let's try it for science.

BONUS request:

Remove 12v12 and put it back to 8v8. Less concentrated fire means you yourself can have a stronger influence on the outcome of each game.

Theres actually builds that are even more effective than the old meta ppl keep talking about in hushed whispers or nostalgic voices.

For whatever reason ppl dont use those builds much though. And those builds have much less pinpoint alpha dmg then the old meta. But are even more effective. Despite all the nerfs to long range sniper builds in the last years.

Now ppl complain about too strong laser builds.

Inbetween and over the years thousands of ppl cried about missiles.

Missiles dwl.

Missiles have been the easiest weapon to avoid throughout mwo.

No matter how strong or weak they were they always sucked. No good player would ever rely on missiles as they can be avoided way, way, waaayyyyy too easily.

Ppl complain about everything becuase they die to everything. And thats because theres a lot of either very very new players in mwo all the time or simply not many skilled ppl in mwo.

They die to anything.

If it was me id even bring back parts of the old meta.

Not becuase I would go for it but just for sheer veriation. I never even used the old meta back in the days.

And I never once complained about it.

The old meta was easily beaten by other builds.

Its the ppl that are the problem hehe.

They cry about everthing and simply cant master their mechs or learn how to play. Thats why they will whine about everything and anything. Its not the builds or weapons. Never was.

[Mister Blastman]

oneda, on 16 May 2016 - 09:38 AM, said:

Its the ppl that are the problem hehe.

They cry about everthing and simply cant master their mechs or learn how to play. Thats why they will whine about everything and anything. Its not the builds or weapons. Never was.

They players can be a huge part of the problem but MWO should also try to keep things closer to the spirit of Battletech and that means 60 pt (30 pts converted) alphas to a single panel don't happen often at all.

[El Bandito]

DerMaulwurf, on 16 May 2016 - 05:54 AM, said:

Since you were around in that time, you should remember that Ghost Heat predated the pop-tart metas.

Actually, Ghost Heat cleared the way for poptarts by killing off the previously dominant AC/40-Jager and QuadPPC-Stalker.

Incorrect. Highlanders were poptarting with 3xPPCs+Gauss without GH penalty, for a time. Ghost Heat was introduced in July 2013 patch, but Highlanders were out by April 2013.

http://mwomercs.com/...general-update/

http://mwomercs.com/...14-16-apr-2013/

Edited by El Bandito, 16 May 2016 - 12:58 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

Navid A1, on 16 May 2016 - 02:09 AM, said:

The best place its been in over 2 years ...
You mean 3 Large pulse lasers + 4 Medium lasers on every mech?
Dat variety!!!

I don't think anyone in these forums hates meta more than I (maybe bishop steiner too...lol)... And i'm telling you when you screw every other weapon and system in the game... 60+ giga-alpha laser puke is what you get.

Poptart meta was not good by any means... PGI just killed every poptart "mech" instead of killing poptarting!

well any mech over 55 tons

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

I just want the JJs back.

I was going to play today, then this video reminded me of the raging the other night about how sh!tty the JJs are currently.

So I think I'll go play something else instead.

[wanderer]

The problem with poptarting was accurate fire in midair (Paul whiffed on this by making accuracy only drop while the jets are active vs. making fire in midair inaccurate, period).

The response was incompletely fixing the actual issue and breaking jump jets along with leaving the primary metamechs crying in the quirk dust. And then leaving it that way.

This is, of course the normal process of things in MWO.