77 replies to this topic

[LegendaryArticuno]

You think the Black Knight/Grasshopper/Warhammer are top tier laser boats due to hardpoints alone? Give the KDK-1 the following quirks or it's a useless a mech out of the gate:
-20% Energy Heat
+15 CT
+10 RT/LT

That's all you have to do, it doesn't have to have twist or accel quirks.

[ScarecrowES]

LegendaryArticuno, on 14 May 2016 - 08:59 AM, said:

You think the Black Knight/Grasshopper/Warhammer are top tier laser boats due to hardpoints alone? Give the KDK-1 the following quirks or it's a useless a mech out of the gate:
-20% Energy Heat
+15 CT
+10 RT/LT

That's all you have to do, it doesn't have to have twist or accel quirks.

There was a 10+ page topic posted yesterday that centered on an argument about Kodiak quirks. It didn't go over well... got shut down.

I'm sure this will go completely differently.

[CK16]

Well this is saying we need more quirks, his argument was no quirks cause Clans are op out of the box don't you know?

[Wintersdark]

How about we just see how things play out?

[Bishop Steiner]

ScarecrowES, on 14 May 2016 - 09:05 AM, said:

There was a 10+ page topic posted yesterday that centered on an argument about Kodiak quirks. It didn't go over well... got shut down.

I'm sure this will go completely differently.

i think "argument" is being very polite.....

I believe "juvenile rant being refuted by grown ups" to be more accurate.

[ScarecrowES]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 May 2016 - 09:44 AM, said:

i think "argument" is being very polite.....

I believe "juvenile rant being refuted by grown ups" to be more accurate.

I didn't want to bring my personal bias into it, and felt the impulse to be judicious. I was being... polite, yes.

[Ultimax]

Aside from the fact that the highest any Black Knight or Grasshopper gets is -15% heat gen, with most of them around -10%, I think you're not understanding that a pure energy only Kodiak will be able to easily fit like 30 DHS and possibly more depending on the build vs. the 18 to 20 DHS most GRH or BKs can slot.

[kapusta11]

Kodiak has 2 crit .15 dissipation heatsinks, it doesn't need heat gen quirks.

Edited by kapusta11, 14 May 2016 - 10:00 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Yeah, while I don't think an energy boat KDK will be very good (it's a hugely tall mech with relatively low slung arms) with that 400XL, customizable ES/FF, low weight energy weapons, it'll be able to pack is so damn many DHS it's not even funny. Hence my wait and see recommendation.

Well, that and my overall surprise that any KDK's got quirks at all.

[Lucian Nostra]

Let's for the sake of this thread say pgi tested the Kodiak and despite it's paper appeal found it wanting so have it some minor quirks. But in their fear of laser vomit messed up and this variant needs some help. There is no way it is warranted such massive quirks. 5% MAYBE as high as 10% heat and only +10 structure. Let's not pretend the lack of leg structure quirks is an actual detriment.

[Wintersdark]

Lucian Nostra, on 14 May 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

Let's for the sake of this thread say pgi tested the Kodiak and despite it's paper appeal found it wanting so have it some minor quirks. But in their fear of laser vomit messed up and this variant needs some help. There is no way it is warranted such massive quirks. 5% MAYBE as high as 10% heat and only +10 structure. Let's not pretend the lack of leg structure quirks is an actual detriment.

Definitely no heat quirks.

The KDK will be fine for cooling, able to sport more dissipation on a laser vomit build than any mech in the game. Launching with heat generation quirks would be insane.

[Metus regem]

Wintersdark, on 14 May 2016 - 10:01 AM, said:

Yeah, while I don't think an energy boat KDK will be very good (it's a hugely tall mech with relatively low slung arms) with that 400XL, customizable ES/FF, low weight energy weapons, it'll be able to pack is so damn many DHS it's not even funny. Hence my wait and see recommendation.

Well, that and my overall surprise that any KDK's got quirks at all.

Heh like a true Ghost Bear...


Anyways to the OP, maybe try firing groups and trigger discipline over hitting Alpha strike?

[ScarecrowES]

I'm of the general mindset that mechs should launch without quirks of any kind... if only for the fact that it would be extremely difficult to tell, post-launch, if a mech is performing a certain way because of how it's designed, or because the quirks make it so.

I'd rather see a few weeks of quirk-free play by the community at large before we re-assess the need to add them.

But I'll hold off well short of "Clan battlemenchs should never get ANY quirks." Obviously, as the Origins mechs have shown, being a Clan battlemech is no guarantee of epicness.

I'm not sure the Kodiak needs energy quirks. As others have said, it's got the potential to handle it's energy-based loadouts better than most mechs, though it would obviously struggle to make use of ALL of the available energy hardpoints. We'll have to see how it is in the game, and hopefully PGI makes whatever adjustments are needed.

[Yosharian]

It's too early to say what quirks each variant needs.

What's blindingly obvious, however, is that there's a huge disparity between the sick mobility quirks of the 2-3-4-SB variants and the complete absence of quirks on the 1-5 variants.

The 3 variant in particular (the one with 4 ballistic torso slots) seems like it should have weaker quirks.

[cazidin]

What the Kodiak 1 and 5 need are moderate agility quirks and minor structure quirks.

[Chimera_]

Personally, I think structure and weapon quirks should only be applied when found necessary -after- a mech has been tested by the playerbase extensively. Agility quirks are different, since almost any assault will need them. In this case the KDK's structure quirks are pretty mild though, so I'm not too worried about that. I don't think any of the KDKs will need weapon quirks, as those are used only for the worst clan mechs and the KDK has given no indication of being bad.

I just hope this doesn't become another round of the IICs, where they launch it and then basically avoid any further changes for months. Sounds like they're willing to change things pretty quickly though, going by Russ' twitter.

[kapusta11]

cazidin, on 14 May 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:

What the Kodiak 1 and 5 need are moderate agility quirks and minor structure quirks.

Can my Banshees and Maulers get those too? A moderate agility quirks, not a big deal right?

Edited by kapusta11, 14 May 2016 - 10:42 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Maulers and Banshees are already both top tier assaults...


Tbh, the fact that PGI is "afraid" of the KDK-1 and -5 is shocking to me, as I already felt that the only popular variants would be the -3 and the SB. Granted, you can bring 2 cLPLs and 6 ER MLS and a Gauss for an 83 damage alpha, but frankly the Kodiak's layout just isn't optimal for that, with so many hardpoints in the arms and then a Gauss in the shoulder (it's a bomb). Oh well though we will see how it goes.

-20% heat gen is ridiculous btw.

[MrJeffers]

LegendaryArticuno, on 14 May 2016 - 08:59 AM, said:

You think the Black Knight/Grasshopper/Warhammer are top tier laser boats due to hardpoints alone? Give the KDK-1 the following quirks or it's a useless a mech out of the gate:
-20% Energy Heat
+15 CT
+10 RT/LT

That's all you have to do, it doesn't have to have twist or accel quirks.

I know it's early - but congratulations on having won the worst idea of the day award!

Seriously - this idea is so far beyond bad words can't describe it. As several others have already mentioned, compared to the BK, GH and WH - the KDK already will get the equivalent of 20% heat gen reduction over them by virtue of the amount of heat sinks it can fit.

Edited by MrJeffers, 14 May 2016 - 10:51 AM.

[kapusta11]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 May 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

Maulers and Banshees are already both top tier assaults...

That's the point, there is no reason to assume that Kodiak will be a bad mech. Mauler firepower + high mounted hardpoints + Banshee like mobility and shield arms. It doesn't need any kind of quirks.