199 replies to this topic

[Gyrok]

no one, on 21 May 2016 - 12:01 AM, said:

It's one of the first times I've seen assaults effectively assaulting in pickup games instead of playing as defense turrets.

We used to have effective assaults for pushing and actually, you know, assaulting the enemy team.

Then came the whining about everything, and now we have no worthwhile clan assaults, and a pool of about 3 IS assaults that are actually decent enough to play.

Let us not go back to clans having nothing.

[Reza Malin]

Gyrok, on 18 May 2016 - 11:10 AM, said:

Stronger IS version here.

Next in line please.

Lol?

With 270m max range for the most part, more like 150-200m accurate range with the SRM's (if you have a side torso left by then), on a slow mech, that is still slower than a 4 UAC 10 KDK-3?

Im not even sure why you linked this as a comparison, because it is not even close.

Gyrok, on 23 May 2016 - 06:20 PM, said:

We used to have effective assaults for pushing and actually, you know, assaulting the enemy team.

Then came the whining about everything, and now we have no worthwhile clan assaults, and a pool of about 3 IS assaults that are actually decent enough to play.

Let us not go back to clans having nothing.

If the KDK3 gets nerfed it will be far from useless it just wont be ridiculous compared to pretty much any other mech in the game....

Edited by Fade Akira, 23 May 2016 - 06:35 PM.

[Gyrok]

Fade Akira, on 23 May 2016 - 06:30 PM, said:

Lol?

With 270m max range for the most part, more like 150-200m accurate range with the SRM's (if you have a side torso left by then), on a slow mech, that is still slower than a 4 UAC 10 KDK-3?

Im not even sure why you linked this as a comparison, because it is not even close.

Spirit Bear.

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If the KDK3 gets nerfed it will be far from useless it just wont be ridiculous compared to pretty much any other mech in the game....

It will be ridiculous compared to any IS heavy/assault...ridiculously bad m9.

How can you sit there, play clan mechs as they are...then turn around and get into a BK or Whammy and say "clan mechs are good"?

How can you play a BNC-3M, or an AS7-S, or MAL-MX90, and sit back and say "KDK is OP"?

I am serious...I am trying to understand how you can reach that conclusion?

[Reza Malin]

Gyrok, on 23 May 2016 - 06:51 PM, said:

Spirit Bear.





It will be ridiculous compared to any IS heavy/assault...ridiculously bad m9.

How can you sit there, play clan mechs as they are...then turn around and get into a BK or Whammy and say "clan mechs are good"?

How can you play a BNC-3M, or an AS7-S, or MAL-MX90, and sit back and say "KDK is OP"?

I am serious...I am trying to understand how you can reach that conclusion?

Its pretty simple.

It has 4 UAC10, effective at pretty much any range.
It can still reach around 65 KPH.
It is an assault.
Its torso twists faster than it has a right to.
It can discard its arms
It has awesome high hardpoints.
It has agility quirks on top.
THE TOP 50 KDK-3 PILOTS ARE ABOVE ALL THE TOP 50 PILOTS ON THE OTHER KDK CHASSIS ON THE LEADERBOARDS, BAR ABOUT 3.


Why don't you tell me what makes any other assault comparable to it? And please spare me the "huge" CT crap or the "don't facetank" rubbish i keep seeing floating around.

EDIT: I am talking exclusively about the KDK-3, not all the KDK variants.

Edited by Fade Akira, 23 May 2016 - 07:09 PM.

[no one]

Gyrok, on 23 May 2016 - 06:20 PM, said:

We used to have effective assaults for pushing and actually, you know, assaulting the enemy team.

Then came the whining about everything, and now we have no worthwhile clan assaults, and a pool of about 3 IS assaults that are actually decent enough to play.

Let us not go back to clans having nothing.

I'm actually not in favor of Nerfs to the Kodiak. I wouldn't even be opposed to fixing the Kodiak's hit-boxes a bit. Personally I don't think we should be balancing Clan and IS to the same metric at all, but PGI insisted on mixed team queues and 'equal but different balance' and that's become a bane of all things interesting or varied in MWO.

BUT... So as long as we're forced to pretend there's a special snowflake competitive role for all 'Mechs in MWO then maybe some other 'Mechs need a hand. Maybe some jump-jet impulse buffs for the Highlander and Victor. Give the Battle-Master and Dire less gratuitously bad torso twists. Maybe make the whole 'movement profile' thing a little less of a horrible battle against the forces of momentum on a somehow friction less terrain studded with tiny, impossibly durable fences and pebbles. MAYBE try out combinations of positive and negative quirks or hardpoint specific quirks that make 'Mechs actually unique. Increased erLL range and half duration but also +3 heat and only -1 damage? Yes please!

But no, I don't support making the Kodiak bad. I support making the game good.

I don't expect anything to be done outside the simplest, cheapest, easiest 'fix' possible though. So if the Kodiak sticks up? I expect it will get hammered down*.

*(shortly after it's made available for c-bills)

[Snowbluff]

Fade Akira, on 23 May 2016 - 07:07 PM, said:

THE TOP 50 KDK-3 PILOTS ARE ABOVE ALL THE TOP 50 PILOTS ON THE OTHER KDK CHASSIS ON THE LEADERBOARDS, BAR ABOUT 3.

Maybe that's because the other variants play just like all of our other laser vomit clan mechs. Maybe that's because we don't like dealing with so much heat heavy builds anymore. :0

[Hit the Deck]

no one, on 23 May 2016 - 08:37 PM, said:

I'm actually not in favor of Nerfs to the Kodiak. I wouldn't even be opposed to fixing the Kodiak's hit-boxes a bit.

...

But no, I don't support making the Kodiak bad. I support making the game good.

I don't expect anything to be done outside the simplest, cheapest, easiest 'fix' possible though. So if the Kodiak sticks up? I expect it will get hammered down*.

*(shortly after it's made available for c-bills)

As they (some) come pre-buffed out of the oven, just think it as dialing the buffs down a bit.

[Reza Malin]

Snowbluff, on 23 May 2016 - 08:57 PM, said:

Maybe that's because the other variants play just like all of our other laser vomit clan mechs. Maybe that's because we don't like dealing with so much heat heavy builds anymore. :0

Or, maybe the KDK-3 is just blatantly better than any other assault mech right now?

Which could possibly explain why so many people are die harding trying to defend it?

I mean christ, half the people on that leaderboard have dropped their IS tags since the KDK released!

[Snowbluff]

Fade Akira, on 23 May 2016 - 09:02 PM, said:

I mean christ, half the people on that leaderboard have dropped their IS tags since the KDK released!

That's obvious. It's the bear head.

[Hadrogh]

You guys need to keep in mind that the 4 uac10s are especially great in killing slow targets.
And for some strange reason their are a lot of assaults in every match.

[Snowbluff]

Hadrogh, on 23 May 2016 - 09:10 PM, said:

You guys need to keep in mind that the 4 uac10s are especially great in killing slow targets.
And for some strange reason their are a lot of assaults in every match.

I actually haven't thought of it like that. That's a good point. I was just thinking it was popular because ballistics are fun.

Edited by Snowbluff, 23 May 2016 - 09:15 PM.

[S13gtastic]

It's not stronger it's a damage boat that has to kill the other SOB before they kill him. We're talking different play styles. The Mauler want's to bukake dakka all over the place so the Atlas can give the double tap.

Direwolf(it's a wolf... but dire...) is to Kingcrab as Atlas is to Kodiak in some regards.

[Templar Dane]

Fade Akira, on 23 May 2016 - 09:02 PM, said:

Or, maybe the KDK-3 is just blatantly better than any other assault mech right now?

Which could possibly explain why so many people are die harding trying to defend it?

I mean christ, half the people on that leaderboard have dropped their IS tags since the KDK released!

You mean like people defend the black knight or IS laser vomit in general?

[Gyrok]

Fade Akira, on 23 May 2016 - 07:07 PM, said:

Its pretty simple.

It has 4 UAC10, effective at pretty much any range.

You clearly have not played the 4 UAC10 build, it is a furnace, and is ineffective at anything moving beyond about 400-500m (not even to effective range, to be honest).

Quote

It can still reach around 65 KPH.

Ok, the BNC-3M can still reach 75 kph with a 55 pt pinpoint alpha, and even more high mounts., and no ammo limitation. Is the Wubshee OP?

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It is an assault.

So is the Atlas, is the Atlas OP?

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Its torso twists faster than it has a right to.

You do realize that nearly all IS mechs have more agility quirks than the KDK right? Like, any IS assault can twist faster...

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It can discard its arms

Wubshee says hello, so does basically any of the BLRs that anybody bothers to bring, and the BK, and the Whammy BW hero, and...you get the idea by now surely.

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It has awesome high hardpoints.

Wubshee says hello, again...

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It has agility quirks on top.

85% of all IS mechs say hello, again...

Quote

THE TOP 50 KDK-3 PILOTS ARE ABOVE ALL THE TOP 50 PILOTS ON THE OTHER KDK CHASSIS ON THE LEADERBOARDS, BAR ABOUT 3.

There are 4000 people playing the KDK3, if there were enough to threaten the others playing the other variants, those scores would be significantly higher by far.

Do not eat the glue, m8

Quote

Why don't you tell me what makes any other assault comparable to it? And please spare me the "huge" CT crap or the "don't facetank" rubbish i keep seeing floating around.

Sure...

How about the Mauler with single projectile ACs and 21 sustained DPS with 5 AC5s, and no heat issues. The Mauler is better than the KDK3 past about 500m without question.

How about the required face time to stay on target...yes you get big burst, but so do mechs like the Atlas-S, up close the Atlas-S completely face stomps the KDK3.

Additionally, because of the required face time, the wubshee can easily out trade it at mid range, the wubshee can peek and hit the KDK3 for 55 damage without taking enough damage in return to matter.

So, there are better solutions at long range, there are better solutions at mid-range, and there are better solutions at short range. Additionally, all of those better solutions are IS solutions.

The KDK does give clans something they did not have, it just does not dethrone any of the quirked meta assaults (which were all IS to begin with...).

Look around...there are tier 3 players screaming bloody murder...and all the tier 1 comp crowd guys are telling you it is fine...there are 16 assault mechs per match spread between 2 teams. Even as squishy as the KDK is relative to the Atlas, that is still a lot of armor and structure that has to die. Hell, my WHM-6D average damage even went up over the weekend by about 11 points per match...considering that I have over 600 drops in my OP death machine of insanity Whammy 6D...that is saying quite a lot about how much damage is there to be farmed.

Quote

EDIT: I am talking exclusively about the KDK-3, not all the KDK variants.

Of course, the KDK3 is the scrub queue monster that sprays damage everywhere...the others actually require skill.

[Gas Guzzler]

Fade Akira, on 23 May 2016 - 07:07 PM, said:

Its pretty simple.

It has 4 UAC10, effective at pretty much any range.

Any range??? Lmao.

Have you even played the mech? It doesn't sound like it. 4 UAC10s are not great beyond 500-600 meters, unless you enemies are scrubs and stand still. It's also very hot. If you doubletap as fast as possible to minimize face time, you incur a lot of ghost heat. A dakka boat like that is of COURSE going to score well in these tournaments, theye are the king of damage, but that doesn't necessarily mean they kill things fastest. They do of course punish those poor souls that think they can stand still and "think really hard" like a "true MechWarrior" but that's about it.

[Mavairo]

Gas Guzzler, on 24 May 2016 - 08:20 AM, said:

Any range??? Lmao.

Have you even played the mech? It doesn't sound like it. 4 UAC10s are not great beyond 500-600 meters, unless you enemies are scrubs and stand still. It's also very hot. If you doubletap as fast as possible to minimize face time, you incur a lot of ghost heat. A dakka boat like that is of COURSE going to score well in these tournaments, theye are the king of damage, but that doesn't necessarily mean they kill things fastest. They do of course punish those poor souls that think they can stand still and "think really hard" like a "true MechWarrior" but that's about it.

I'm still waiting to see these black magic boss battle Kodiaks people keep griping about

[Roadkill]

Fade Akira, on 23 May 2016 - 07:07 PM, said:

It has 4 UAC10, effective at pretty much any range provided you're shooting at a barn.

FTFY. UAC/10 is otherwise difficult to use beyond about 400-500 meters. In other words, it can't even effectively use its full "optimum" range against any target that's actually moving.

Fade Akira, on 23 May 2016 - 09:02 PM, said:

Or, maybe the KDK-3 is just blatantly better than any other assault mech right now?

Which could possibly explain why so many people are die harding trying to defend it?

Or, maybe it's being defended because it isn't OP and we're tired of whiners begging to get anything that killed them nerfed?

This is like the people who whine that the SkillCrow is good at killing Lights. Yes, it's good at killing Lights. And basically useless for any other purpose. The KDK-3 excells at killing other Assaults and maybe a few slow heavies provided it gets the engagement at the right range. It's going to lose to an Atlas up close, and it's going to lose to a Mauler at range. It's a very good, very solid mid-range brawler. And that's it.

But guess what? There's a lot of mid range brawling going on right now because everyone is piloting their brand new Kodiaks in the weekend's Kodiak-specific event.

Wait at least a couple more weeks before you scream OP, because you have no valid data to make that claim right now.

Edited by Roadkill, 24 May 2016 - 10:06 AM.

[Reza Malin]

Gyrok, on 24 May 2016 - 08:02 AM, said:

Look around...there are tier 3 players screaming bloody murder...and all the tier 1 comp crowd guys are telling you it is fine...

Oh and Gyrok, newsflash for you.

Tier means nothing, and it certainly doesn't mean you are a "comp" player, no matter how much you may like to think so.

Tier simply comes down to time played. I am sure you know this, yet you still brought it up. No surprise.

[Idealsuspect]

Adamski, on 19 May 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

How are Clan SRMs worse than IS SRMs? The Clan SRM6 with Artemis weighs less than an IS SRM6 while having a tighter spread than an IS SRM4. The only redeeming quality of IS SRMs are that some chassis have enough quirks to make up for the disparity.

Coze if you have clan srms it mean you have clan heatsink (which are less efficient) and clan srms spread is a bit more large than IS spread for srms 6 it could be a problem.
And yea you also right for quirks but its a part of srms balance right now.

Edited by Idealsuspect, 08 June 2016 - 07:28 PM.

[Rhent]

A 100 tonner moving at 66KPH + 4 cuac/5's + 2 LPL's with 14 DHS, shreds an Atlas including its structural quirks. A full on brawler Atlas, will eat up a number of cuac/5 bursts before it gets into range and then the kodiak brings into bear its LPL's while double tapping its cuac/5's. And then the clpls are on recycle the KDK-3 torso twists until its ready to do another concentrated blast. The KDK-3 is simply the Timberwolf of the 100 ton class now.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a7f810c6e1e7fb3