199 replies to this topic

[no one]

Gyrok, on 19 May 2016 - 05:54 PM, said:

What? AC2s have less DPS than any other AC. The 5, 10 and 20, and even the LBX10 are all higher DPS per gun. The AC10s also have more raw damage per ton of ammo than any other ballistic in the game @ 200 dmg/ton. The 5 & 2 get 150 dmg/ton and the AC20 gets 140 dmg/ton.

Also, the DPH on the AC2 is 2:1, the DPH on the AC20 is 20:7 (~3:1)

So, no, the AC2 is in a terrible place to be honest.

DPST - damage per second per ton. The AC/20 is 0.36 dpst. The AC/2 has 0.46

If you commit equal tonnage to the two weapons, the AC/2 has 28% more damage output.

And the AC/2 has more range. A lot more.

Edited by no one, 19 May 2016 - 06:39 PM.

[Khobai]

Kodiak isnt even close to OP

Its huge *** CT makes it stupid to pilot

its one of the worst assaults until its oversized CT gets fixed IMO

although it is still better than the other 100 tonners just because unlocked CXL

Quote

DPST - damage per second per ton. The AC/20 is 0.36 dpst. The AC/2 has 0.46

If you commit equal tonnage to the two weapons, the AC/2 has 28% more damage output.

And the AC/2 has more range. A lot more.

Except AC20 puts all its damage in one spot and AC2 spreads it around

damage in one spot >>> damage spread out

So the AC20 wins any logical comparison that actually takes into account how the game actually works

Edited by Khobai, 19 May 2016 - 06:41 PM.

[Sjorpha]

no one, on 19 May 2016 - 04:01 PM, said:

AC/2s aren't bad by any stretch. They out DPST all other auto-cannons

This post teaches us a great lesson, if the standard measurements everyone else uses to talk about something does not support your argument, all you have to do is invent an entirely new form of measurement that does, and then keep talking as if it is the more relevant one!

Brilliant, I wonder why no one does it.

Edited by Sjorpha, 19 May 2016 - 06:56 PM.

[Ultimax]

El Bandito, on 19 May 2016 - 05:31 PM, said:

I can name at least 15 chassis that uses Gauss to good effect. Gauss is still powerful, just not as powerful as before.

For every nearly every build you can name there will be another mech without Gauss that is stronger.

[no one]

Khobai, on 19 May 2016 - 06:39 PM, said:

So the AC20 wins any logical comparison that actually takes into account how the game actually works

Only one that completely ignores range, although I get that most matches devolve into laser trades at 400m. It's hardly impossible to put all your damage in one spot with an AC/2 though, it just takes more face-time. Of course you also get more lead feedback and a higher ballistic velocity with the AC/2. The AC/2 functions a lot like a continuous-beam laser with some ballistic drop and travel time. They aren't as good as uAC/5s but they're -massively- superior to LB-Xs and comparable to many other weapons.

Sjorpha, on 19 May 2016 - 06:55 PM, said:

This post teaches us a great lesson, if the standard measurements everyone else uses to talk about something does not support your argument, all you have to do is invent an entirely new form of measurement that does, and then keep talking as if it is the more relevant one!

Brilliant, I wonder why no one does it.

Naw, I can't take credit for inventing dpst. My values are lifted from Smurfy.
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/equipment

Of course it's not the ONLY relevant measure, but how much bang per ton you get isn't some asspullmetric.

Edited by no one, 19 May 2016 - 07:14 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

DPST is not a particularly useful measure unless we are comparing two weapons that are nearly identical in all other aspects, i.e. cER PPC vs. isER PPC.

[Malachy Karrde]

Ac 2s are crap. I got into a 1 on 1 with another dire wolf. He had 6 ac 2s, I was running 2 UAC 10, a bunch of lasers and missiles. He and I unloaded on each other. He died in 11 seconds, got me to 87 percent health. We were at a range of 310 meters.

[El Bandito]

Ultimax, on 19 May 2016 - 07:05 PM, said:

For every nearly every build you can name there will be another mech without Gauss that is stronger.

Doesn't matter. Those Gauss configs are still viable. Far cry from your "borderline irrelevant" comment.

[no one]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 May 2016 - 07:15 PM, said:

DPST is not a particularly useful measure unless we are comparing two weapons that are nearly identical in all other aspects, i.e. cER PPC vs. isER PPC.

Okay, so how about the cU-AC/2 and cU-AC/20. Those are completely comparable. Both are burst fire ballistics. In fact, each hit from the cU-AC/20 is 5 damage while 2xcU-AC/2s will put out 4 damage per impact with more DPS for 2 tons less, with higher ballistic velocity and more range.

[Adamski]

Mcgral18, on 19 May 2016 - 06:23 PM, said:

20% quirk!

That's not an MG, that's a 20% better MG (25% is the sweet spot of non Terribad MGs)


That, or a CoF removal
#PGIPLZ



And is the superlaser not a factor as well?

Machine Guns both need their Cone of Fire removed, and also their Velocity buffed. (assuming they actually utilize velocity, Smurfy says they have a velocity of 100, which is the lowest in the game, matching Flamers and AMS)

Speaking of, I would really like to see Velocity normalized for projectile sizes. So a cUAC20 slug that does 5 damage has the same velocity as a IS UAC5 single slug projectile.

[Rhent]

KDK 3 with 4 cuac5, 2 LPLs and the dhs and ammo to back it up and the speed of safe xl in a 100 tonner is something to fear.

[Mcgral18]

Adamski, on 19 May 2016 - 07:41 PM, said:

Machine Guns both need their Cone of Fire removed, and also their Velocity buffed. (assuming they actually utilize velocity, Smurfy says they have a velocity of 100, which is the lowest in the game, matching Flamers and AMS)

Speaking of, I would really like to see Velocity normalized for projectile sizes. So a cUAC20 slug that does 5 damage has the same velocity as a IS UAC5 single slug projectile.

They're hitscan

[Bishop Steiner]

Rhent, on 19 May 2016 - 07:41 PM, said:

KDK 3 with 4 cuac5, 2 LPLs and the dhs and ammo to back it up and the speed of safe xl in a 100 tonner is something to fear.

DPS guns and HUGE unbuffed CT really aren't, to anyone with a little intestinal fortitude and steady aim. Equal skill pilots that KDK3 build loses to AS7-S, MAL and Wubshee ever single time.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 19 May 2016 - 08:48 PM.

[Ultimax]

El Bandito, on 19 May 2016 - 07:30 PM, said:

Doesn't matter. Those Gauss configs are still viable. Far cry from your "borderline irrelevant" comment.

When it comes to meta they are borderline irrelevant.

If just basically "viable" is your criteria, even LRMs are "viable".


Or haven't you noticed you can find at least 5x the amount of mechs running LRMs in every tier than you can find builds using Gauss?



It's like saying a McDonalds happy meal is a "viable" dinner, which it is, but its not even remotely a high quality one.

Edited by Ultimax, 19 May 2016 - 09:02 PM.

[Hit the Deck]

Ultimax, on 19 May 2016 - 09:02 PM, said:

When it comes to meta they are borderline irrelevant.

If just basically "viable" is your criteria, even LRMs are "viable".

Or haven't you noticed you can find at least 5x the amount of mechs running LRMs in every tier than you can find builds using Gauss?

It's like saying a McDonalds happy meal is a "viable" dinner, which it is, but its not even remotely a high quality one.

I agree with Bandito that Gauss builds are still viable. Viable for what you ask? Viable for pugging in QP and FP as that's my only experience and I don't play in a group (I think in FP I drop in group drop as I'm a one man unit - might be wrong).

A meta build is the most optimal build for a certain 'Mech. What does comparing something lesser to the "meta" mean? That everything else is irrelevant? I haven't checked it out but I think the latest meta build for KGC is 2ML+4UAC/5. IMO, the dual Gauss build consisting of 3LL+2Gauss is still fine though it's "lesser" than the meta. It's not yet at a "Happy Meal" level.

[zaku2142]

Mystere, on 19 May 2016 - 08:16 PM, said:

FTFY.

Beware of the decades-old anti-Clan Crusade! This geriatric army is very real.

Edited by zaku2142, 19 May 2016 - 10:17 PM.

[Mavairo]

Add Highlanders to my list of things that can brawl a Kodiak down effectively.

So my personal list AS7, BLR and HGNs, so far lol.

[L3mming2]

no one, on 19 May 2016 - 07:36 PM, said:

Okay, so how about the cU-AC/2 and cU-AC/20. Those are completely comparable. Both are burst fire ballistics. In fact, each hit from the cU-AC/20 is 5 damage while 2xcU-AC/2s will put out 4 damage per impact with more DPS for 2 tons less, with higher ballistic velocity and more range.

funny storry the cU-AC/2 is the only UAC in game where the DPS actualy goes down when you double tap it...

[Spr1ggan]

Still not seeing what's so great about the mech. The more i play it, the more garbage i think it is.

Edited by Eth3real, 20 May 2016 - 02:47 AM.

[Lykaon]

Gyrok, on 18 May 2016 - 11:03 AM, said:

So, all of you QQing about the KDK (I noticed there was no QQ over the unseen, which are arguably as strong), tell me why you think this mech is OP. Is it because you see 4+ KDKs on each side for the last 24 hours? Is it because it is less tanky than the Atlas? Is it because it has less focused FLD than the MX90? Is it because it has better mobility?

I am just trying to get a handle on what it is that people perceive to be OP about this mech. It is undoubtedly good, but far from being a showstopper. The loads of KDK pilots turning in 100-200 damage scores can tell you that.

So, elaborate, WHY do YOU think the KDK is, or is not, stronger than the AS7 or MAL?

Clan XL ( survives a side torso destruction AND allows for class 20 cannons to be mounted)
clan endo steel (more free space for larger ballistics)
better hardpoint placement (Kodiak 3 in particular)
Clan SRMs half the tonnage and lower crits allowing for ease of upgrading to artemis
superior speed due to having access to 400 rated engines

These are the plusses

No structure quirks
No weapon quirks

These are the down sides