199 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Moomtazz, on 19 May 2016 - 12:59 PM, said:

I would run something like this on the SB. It would be inferior to the AS7-S, so if I end up buying the Kodiak's I'll probably skip out on the hero.

SPIRIT BEAR

Replace the UAC20 with an LBX20 and replace some of your excess ammo with DHS, the ability to make snapshots is a necessity for a mech like this and the Atlas.

[Alistair Winter]

Eth3real, on 19 May 2016 - 12:25 PM, said:

If it was OP or stronger than any other top assault then anybody and everybody would be consistently rekin with it. I can't make it work to save my life and do far better with IS heavies.

Well... When 50% of the players are playing the same mech, you can't expect them all to do 1000 dmg per match. After all, it's kind of a zero sum game. And even if it wasn't, you still have to consider the number of people running silly builds like this.

[Karmen Baric]

Atlas AS7 brawler is better than the Kodiak Spirit Bear, of that i have no doubt after recent plays with both.
Kodiak is way too vulnerable in comparison.

[no one]

Revis Volek, on 19 May 2016 - 12:03 PM, said:

But the MAL with 5 ac5's is still much scarier to me

The fact that this is even an argument just highlights how hilariously bad the weapon balance in this game is.

[Davegt27]

OP what

Convince me why the AS7 or Mal is better then the kDK?

Should both those Mechs be better than the KDK?

[L3mming2]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 May 2016 - 12:20 PM, said:

By that same line of thought, it eats into the tonnage more on their side since it is an increase in tonnage by 60-200% instead of 33-100%, and don't underestimate the spread difference, it really does make more of a difference than people play it off as, and the fact that many IS mechs have better clustered missile hardpoints, it all adds up. The structure quirks just seal the deal.

but if u look at unquirked mechs then the clan srm's are better.. so technicaly they are better..

[Quicksilver Aberration]

L3mming2, on 19 May 2016 - 02:45 PM, said:

but if u look at unquirked mechs then the clan srm's are better.. so technicaly they are better..

No, that's not how it works, if you gave the option for a Clan mech or an IS mech the option for the other tech's SRMs, which ever is chosen the most would determine which one is actually better, but that is a bit moot. The quirks that matter for the IS SRM boats is the structure more than anything.

[L3mming2]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 May 2016 - 02:50 PM, said:

No, that's not how it works, if you gave the option for a Clan mech or an IS mech the option for the other tech's SRMs, which ever is chosen the most would determine which one is actually better, but that is a bit moot. The quirks that matter for the IS SRM boats is the structure more than anything.

dont get me wrong i think ballance is quite good at the moment looking at the total pakage, but some things like clan gauss clan SPL and clan mg and clan srm's are still better then there is counterparts (however the adavantage those give is leveled out by quirks on is mechs)

[Gas Guzzler]

no one, on 19 May 2016 - 02:37 PM, said:

The fact that this is even an argument just highlights how hilariously bad the weapon balance in this game is.

The weapon balance in this game is pretty good... just LRMs and AC2s are kind of lonely is all.

[no one]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 May 2016 - 02:57 PM, said:

The weapon balance in this game is pretty good... just LRMs and AC2s are kind of lonely is all.

AC/2s aren't bad by any stretch. They out DPST all other auto-cannons, out range most direct-fire weapons and the rounds land near enough where you aim them. They also deal damage per heat nearly equivalent to the AC/20 while being MUCH more crit-slot dense and having more raw damage per ton of ammo. That's why the 6xAC/2 Mauler and KK are a thing. Boating light ballistics is almost universally superior to using 'brawler' auto-cannons (and this is important) at every range.

Call me crazy but that doesn't sound like balance to me. It doesn't even make sense with PGI's insane heat system.

Flamers, LRMs and LB-X auto-cannons are the 'bad' weapons of MWO, almost unexceptionally due to poorly thought out weapon mechanics.

Edited by no one, 19 May 2016 - 04:02 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 May 2016 - 02:57 PM, said:

The weapon balance in this game is pretty good... just LRMs and AC2s are kind of lonely is all.

...You forgot MGs and isSLs (They buffed the isMLs, but forgot to buff the Smalls at the same time, making it an even worse choice than in the past)

[El Bandito]

Ultimax, on 19 May 2016 - 06:37 AM, said:

Gauss is borderline irrelevant in the current game with the exception of a few very niche mechs/builds.

I can name at least 15 chassis that uses Gauss to good effect. Gauss is still powerful, just not as powerful as before.

[Solis Obscuri]

Give people a few weeks to figure out how to use them. We've had Maulers and Atlai around for years.

[Gyrok]

no one, on 19 May 2016 - 04:01 PM, said:

AC/2s aren't bad by any stretch. They out DPST all other auto-cannons, out range most direct-fire weapons and the rounds land near enough where you aim them. They also deal damage per heat nearly equivalent to the AC/20 while being MUCH more crit-slot dense and having more raw damage per ton of ammo. That's why the 6xAC/2 Mauler and KK are a thing. Boating light ballistics is almost universally superior to using 'brawler' auto-cannons (and this is important) at every range.

Call me crazy but that doesn't sound like balance to me. It doesn't even make sense with PGI's insane heat system.

Flamers, LRMs and LB-X auto-cannons are the 'bad' weapons of MWO, almost unexceptionally due to poorly thought out weapon mechanics.

What? AC2s have less DPS than any other AC. The 5, 10 and 20, and even the LBX10 are all higher DPS per gun. The AC10s also have more raw damage per ton of ammo than any other ballistic in the game @ 200 dmg/ton. The 5 & 2 get 150 dmg/ton and the AC20 gets 140 dmg/ton.

Also, the DPH on the AC2 is 2:1, the DPH on the AC20 is 20:7 (~3:1)

So, no, the AC2 is in a terrible place to be honest.

Edited by Gyrok, 19 May 2016 - 05:55 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Mcgral18, on 19 May 2016 - 04:15 PM, said:

...You forgot MGs and isSLs (They buffed the isMLs, but forgot to buff the Smalls at the same time, making it an even worse choice than in the past)

I saw some MGs on a Spider in a comp match, which probably means its close (I trust the team that used them to not bring garbage).

But yeah, IS SLs i missed.

[Malachy Karrde]

Gyrok, on 18 May 2016 - 11:03 AM, said:

So, all of you QQing about the KDK (I noticed there was no QQ over the unseen, which are arguably as strong), tell me why you think this mech is OP. Is it because you see 4+ KDKs on each side for the last 24 hours? Is it because it is less tanky than the Atlas? Is it because it has less focused FLD than the MX90? Is it because it has better mobility?

I am just trying to get a handle on what it is that people perceive to be OP about this mech. It is undoubtedly good, but far from being a showstopper. The loads of KDK pilots turning in 100-200 damage scores can tell you that.

So, elaborate, WHY do YOU think the KDK is, or is not, stronger than the AS7 or MAL?

I agree with Gyrok here. I do not own a kodiak and won't be buying one either unless I decide to change my assault role. They are average on the tank end of things...weaker than a dire wolf due to size and lack of customizable hardpoints (a dire wolf can be configured any way you want it and can bring more dakka, and more lasers, only hardpoint a kdk has more are missiles), stronger than a mauler and less tank than an atlas. They put out more damage than an atlas, at least some variants do. They have heat issues, especially the laser variant. They are fast and handle slightly worse than an executioner imo, but due to weak center torso this is mitigated. They are not fast enough to stay out of a Dire wolf's firing arcs by circling. I think it's a jack of all trades, master of none sort of mech. There is a variant for every role, but other 100 ton mechs do better in those roles. If I had to compare it to something, I'd say it's the clan version of the king crab.

Edited by Malachy Karrde, 19 May 2016 - 06:25 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 May 2016 - 06:01 PM, said:

I saw some MGs on a Spider in a comp match, which probably means its close (I trust the team that used them to not bring garbage).

But yeah, IS SLs i missed.

20% quirk!

That's not an MG, that's a 20% better MG (25% is the sweet spot of non Terribad MGs)


That, or a CoF removal
#PGIPLZ



And is the superlaser not a factor as well?

Edited by Mcgral18, 19 May 2016 - 06:24 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 May 2016 - 06:01 PM, said:

I saw some MGs on a Spider in a comp match, which probably means its close (I trust the team that used them to not bring garbage).

But yeah, IS SLs i missed.

I'm actually wondering why the Spider and not the Ember. It has a 25% MG buff and brings moar laser.

[Mcgral18]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 May 2016 - 06:26 PM, said:

I'm actually wondering why the Spider and not the Ember. It has a 25% MG buff and brings moar laser.

Weight, laser quirks, Structure quirks+smaller target?

[Y E O N N E]

Mcgral18, on 19 May 2016 - 06:28 PM, said:

Weight, laser quirks, Structure quirks+smaller target?

I wouldn't call it that much smaller, not when I can reliably smack the STs off. I'm thinking the 50% cool-down is the main reason, though I would actually think it's so close between the two that it's a wash in the vast majority of cases.

Maybe it's because the MGs are on the arms, letting your main gun be more protected in the torso?