199 replies to this topic

[Juodas Varnas]

This is a troll thread. You couldn't convince Gyrok that the Arctic Cheetah is stronger than the Commando.

[Evan20k]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 18 May 2016 - 12:17 PM, said:

There are drawbacks associated with both the Whale and Kodiak at that range, it is called poor projectile velocity, and it is what stops both from being able to actually compete with the Mauler at 500+.

Fair enough point I suppose.

[CK16]

Nyte Kitsune, on 18 May 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

Honestly, FW Aside, its about even with any other Assault. Dies just as easily as any other assault if focused on, Sure it can mount a lot more guns, but they also run hotter and shut down a lot if you don't manage your heat.

Now in FW.... Not fun to come up against a wall of Kodiaks. My unit is fairly good, but even we lost 2 waves vs their 1 Wave of Kodiaks. As far as FW goes, I think the Clans Drop weight should be lowered so that they have to sacrifice tonnage if they want to run all of those Kodiaks.

Please no, we already have to sacrifice alot for the Kodiak, I can barely get a Kodiak, Timerwolf,Shadowcat, and an Arctic Cheetah in. That drop deck is already to front heavy there if you lower it further and leave IS at what would that be 20tons more, that is huge difference and would wreck Clans Kodiak or not...

[Bishop Steiner]

Evan20k, on 18 May 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:

Even if you think of the ballistics like screen-shaking lasers, 500m+ range with that much damage is still really, really good without any of the drawbacks (Direwolf) normally associated with that damage+range.

"without drawbacks".

Have you run one? They are walking ovens. With slow velocity, meaning easily spread. The MAL on the other hand is cooler and more effective at range, and able to twist.

[Evan20k]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 May 2016 - 12:48 PM, said:

"without drawbacks".

Have you run one? They are walking ovens. With slow velocity, meaning easily spread. The MAL on the other hand is cooler and more effective at range, and able to twist.

I ran the x4 UAC10 build at first, but decided I liked 2 UAC10+2 UAC5 more. Feels like a beefed up UAC20 1R Mauler but Quicksilver is right that the AC25 MX90 Mauler has a niche that the Kodiak cannot fill (which is good).

[Trauglodyte]

Gyrok, on 18 May 2016 - 11:03 AM, said:

So, all of you QQing about the KDK (I noticed there was no QQ over the unseen, which are arguably as strong), tell me why you think this mech is OP. Is it because you see 4+ KDKs on each side for the last 24 hours? Is it because it is less tanky than the Atlas? Is it because it has less focused FLD than the MX90? Is it because it has better mobility?

I am just trying to get a handle on what it is that people perceive to be OP about this mech. It is undoubtedly good, but far from being a showstopper. The loads of KDK pilots turning in 100-200 damage scores can tell you that.

So, elaborate, WHY do YOU think the KDK is, or is not, stronger than the AS7 or MAL?

The Kodiak isn't better than those two, it is just different. The KDK-3 can mount 4x UAC10s and carry 9 tons of ammo. Since the UAC10 gets 20 trigger pulls per ton, that's a total of 180 individual trigger pulls or 45 with all 4 in unison. That is, in reality, only 22.5 if you double tap. What the KDK does, in comparison to the Mauler, is put out more initial burst at a much shorter range while also being able to not face down the target. Plus, said ballistic mounts are a little higher. Quite frankly, it is really a toss up as to whether 40 and 40 is better than the Mauler. One is guaranteed to put 25 in one spot and then another 25 shortly there after while the other is more apt to spread that damage out. Plus, there is the issue with heat on the Kodiak.

As to the comparison to the Atlas, that is a horrible comparison for the Spirit Bear. The KDK-SB is simply a bigger Executioner/Gargoyle. The alpha isn't the same, thanks to ghost heat on anything with the UAC20 or any SRM4/6 in packs greater than 3. Plus, the Spirit Bear doesn't have nearly the durability of the Atlas.

Like I said in a couple of threads, I've walked straight through Kodiaks all of last night. The only time that I had an issue is when I caught a Kodiak with friends or when I made an error on my attack path and I got caught at range. In either of those cases, you could replace the Kodiak with any other mech and the end result would have been the same.

Now, all of that aside, the Kodiak-3 is going to be the go to staple for the chassis. While I'd probably mix the UAC10 and UAC5 instead of going for 4x UAC10s, it puts out enough ballistic damage to put a hurt on anything at range. It can go hull down on a ridge to protect itself and, if a big enough engine is put in, has the speed to choose when and where it wants to engage. As you can see, PGI was smart enough not to put multiple ballistics or more than 2x energy on the Spirit Bear for obvious reason. So, at the end of the day, the KDK-3 is going to be the go to. I don't know if it'll ever be a comp mech outside of brawler sets because it doesn't have the energy quirks to make it viable. But, in the right group, it'll chew up everything and do a much better job of doing so, given the set, than the Atlas. Though, it won't ever be able to be in a set as overwatch in a ranged deck.

Like I said, not better than the Mauler or Atlas. It is just different. The good Scare Bear drivers will be those that use it as it should be played. Everyone else will simply be scrap and stat fodder.

[Mcgral18]

Revis Volek, on 18 May 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

I run a sEXE with a 76 alpha, this isnt really something new to see alphas that high on actual playable builds.

2 LPL and 10 Er smalls, 76 alpha with a crazy cooldown but no range.

Exactly: Range

UAC10s are effective to 400M with their velocity/burst against large targets, and you can get half a burst on about anything

Gyrok, on 18 May 2016 - 11:10 AM, said:

Stronger IS version here.

Next in line please.

300 absolute max< 400-600 effective

Not to mention dem mounts, which Atlai cannot have


The K-3 is good, not even you can deny that.

[oldradagast]

LT. HARDCASE, on 18 May 2016 - 12:18 PM, said:

There are currently too many Kodiaks on the field, to get a decent feel of their balance position.

Agreed. They are good and it tends to feel stupid when your team gets flattened by a pile of them. But, you then have to step back and think objectively. Had that pile of Kodiaks been a pile of Atlas, would the results really have been any different? Also, the game has had no short of "meh..." assault mechs, so seeing a very popular and very good one show up in huge numbers swings things way out of control and makes it hard to evaluate things.

I suspect the Kodiak, or at least the super-dakka one, may be a hair too good, but I don't think it's a broken mech. I've killed my fair share of them in the past few days in non-Kodiaks (and even in some stupid mechs, like a Zeus with the "rocket punch" SRM arm), so they aren't godly - certainly not as distorting as the Dire Wolf when it first came out, IMHO.

[Clownwarlord]

Gyrok, on 18 May 2016 - 11:03 AM, said:

So, all of you QQing about the KDK (I noticed there was no QQ over the unseen, which are arguably as strong), tell me why you think this mech is OP. Is it because you see 4+ KDKs on each side for the last 24 hours? Is it because it is less tanky than the Atlas? Is it because it has less focused FLD than the MX90? Is it because it has better mobility?

I am just trying to get a handle on what it is that people perceive to be OP about this mech. It is undoubtedly good, but far from being a showstopper. The loads of KDK pilots turning in 100-200 damage scores can tell you that.

So, elaborate, WHY do YOU think the KDK is, or is not, stronger than the AS7 or MAL?

Well I can not speak for Mauler at this time, but the KDK is better than the AS7 because of higher weapon mounts. Bigger arms for torso protection. Lastly, clan weapons have better range.

So you can have a quad UAC10 build in high mounts that spit lead at 600 range for effect while a comp build AS7-S has an effective range of 270. So basically I am getting at the AS7 has to go through fire to dispense fire and will take damage that could be fatal before before it even lays a finger on the apposing KDK.

Now as for Mauler well ... I have to do more work on this for my impression but so far KDK is better than AS7.

[Karmen Baric]

Nyte Kitsune, on 18 May 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

Honestly, FW Aside, its about even with any other Assault. Dies just as easily as any other assault if focused on, Sure it can mount a lot more guns, but they also run hotter and shut down a lot if you don't manage your heat.

Agree its not markedly better than many other assaults already out.

Nyte Kitsune, on 18 May 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

Now in FW.... Not fun to come up against a wall of Kodiaks. My unit is fairly good, but even we lost 2 waves vs their 1 Wave of Kodiaks. As far as FW goes, I think the Clans Drop weight should be lowered so that they have to sacrifice tonnage if they want to run all of those Kodiaks.

So running up against 12 Atlas AS7 brawlers isn't bad or 12 Maulers or 12 Wubshees? This is just the same, 12 of any strong mech will be hard to fight off, even 12 Splat Timbers or 12 DD Jagers.

Edited by Karmen Baric, 18 May 2016 - 05:56 PM.

[Hit the Deck]

Trauglodyte, on 18 May 2016 - 04:53 PM, said:

As to the comparison to the Atlas, that is a horrible comparison for the Spirit Bear. The KDK-SB is simply a bigger Executioner/Gargoyle. The alpha isn't the same, thanks to ghost heat on anything with the UAC20 or any SRM4/6 in packs greater than 3. Plus, the Spirit Bear doesn't have nearly the durability of the Atlas.

That's not correct (mainly about the SRMs). SRM6s have been buffed not too long ago so you can shoot four of them without triggering GH. As for the hot and "face time intensive" UAC/20 , use LB-20X instead.

[Adamski]

I've never said the Kodiak is OP, but it receiving quirks does represent power creep, because now the DWF needs them to keep pace with it.

If they do the same thing with the upcoming Night Gyr, then they will also need to quirk the TBR for it to keep up, which means more quirks for the ON1-IIC.

So while they are nerfing the Black Knight, Catapult, and Vindicator, they are inflating the top Clan performers, and this is what I take issue with.

Clan Battlemechs should not be receiving quirks, and the only Clan Omnimechs that should be receiving quirks are the ones with suboptimal upgrades and/or engines.

Clan tech should be the baseline, with IS quirks allowing specific chassis to slightly outperform them at a specific role, while being slightly worse in other roles.

I also wish I had a unicorn pony that could fly.

Hit the Deck, on 18 May 2016 - 06:14 PM, said:

That's not correct (mainly about the SRMs). SRM6s have been buffed not too long ago so you can shoot four of them without triggering GH. As for the hot and "face time intensive" UAC/20 , use LB-20X instead.

Yep, standard SRMs don't trigger ghost heat until you fire 5 or more of them. (SSRM still have the 3 limit IIRC).

Clan SRM6 with Artemis are lighter than IS SRM6 while having a tighter spread than IS SRM4.

[Gyrok]

TercieI, on 18 May 2016 - 11:49 AM, said:

I assumed he was talking quad UAC10...

I assumed he was talking about the SB.

The quad UAC10 is a 40 alpha with a double tap that can jam some or most of your UACs.

[Gyrok]

Juodas Varnas, on 18 May 2016 - 12:20 PM, said:

This is a troll thread. You couldn't convince Gyrok that the Arctic Cheetah is stronger than the Commando.

The commando is not as bad as a lot of people think, I ran the TDK the other night and put up 400-500 damage and 1-2 kills per game.

The ACH is, however, better...but that does not say a whole lot does it?

[Chrome Magnus]

"Convince me..." heh, I'm fairly certain there would be about as much point in talking to a wall...

That said I've only got a handful of games in with them and while very capable they're all mostly locked so we will see.

[Gyrok]

Mcgral18, on 18 May 2016 - 05:03 PM, said:

Exactly: Range

UAC10s are effective to 400M with their velocity/burst against large targets, and you can get half a burst on about anything



300 absolute max< 400-600 effective

Not to mention dem mounts, which Atlai cannot have


The K-3 is good, not even you can deny that.

The SB is a 300m hero too, realistically...even you cannot deny that.

Yes, the KDK3 is good. I said it would be. It is not a MAL because clan ACs, but it certainly does better than any other clan assault.

Chrome Magnus, on 18 May 2016 - 06:59 PM, said:

"Convince me..." heh, I'm fairly certain there would be about as much point in talking to a wall...

That said I've only got a handful of games in with them and while very capable they're all mostly locked so we will see.

I am quite reasonable.

[zagibu]

Juodas Varnas, on 18 May 2016 - 12:20 PM, said:

This is a troll thread. You couldn't convince Gyrok that the Arctic Cheetah is stronger than the Commando.

I'd say it's more of a desperate attempt to counter all the KDK OP threads.

[L3mming2]

Gyrok, on 18 May 2016 - 11:03 AM, said:

So, all of you QQing about the KDK (I noticed there was no QQ over the unseen, which are arguably as strong), tell me why you think this mech is OP. Is it because you see 4+ KDKs on each side for the last 24 hours? Is it because it is less tanky than the Atlas? Is it because it has less focused FLD than the MX90? Is it because it has better mobility?

I am just trying to get a handle on what it is that people perceive to be OP about this mech. It is undoubtedly good, but far from being a showstopper. The loads of KDK pilots turning in 100-200 damage scores can tell you that.

So, elaborate, WHY do YOU think the KDK is, or is not, stronger than the AS7 or MAL?

my opinion atlas is a better brawler, but for pug que the KDK SB is better as it is fast and can get in to a brawl even when the team is disorgenised.

the dire is a better UAC boat 2uac10s + 3 uac5's is beter then 4uac10's. but for pug que the KDK 3 is better because again a disorgenised team means piloting a slow dire is a bad...

ps, when it comes to the crown of the asault class these 2

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8a521b97b688f65
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...244c85c8cfbf6f8

wont be deposed by the KDK anny time soon do

conclusion in a average pug mach the lack of orgenised team play make the KDK the better choise. in a 12 man not so much..

Edited by L3mming2, 19 May 2016 - 02:07 AM.

[Jaqir]

So in conclusion, Kodiak is effectively better at some things than some other assaults, and worse in some others. Who would've thought.

[D124k3]

I and my unit have all collectively agreed that the Kodiak has the position of the Gargoyle, orthe various higher ton heavies. It runs with a very mid-long range build, with decent mobility and less brawly power, but more punch. It cannot fill the place of the AS7, simply because the AS7 fights primarily with its raw tanking ability, and is one of the only mechs in the game with this ability. (The ability to walk into a group of enemies and take fire from all of them while still being able to dish some)

The KDK is more of a fast flanker, or long range suppression/destruction.