156 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 May 2016 - 02:27 PM, said:

He also ignores other Assaults, like the AWS 9M with it's 121º/s twist rate, VTR-DS with 140º/s, BLR-2C with 119º/s, Misery with a 105º/s, Boars Head at 120º/s, KGC-000B siting at a 100º/s (with a 325), AS7-S w 110º/s (350, 105º with 325)

Gargoyle Prime? 140º/s
Warhawk Prime: 100º/s
Executioner: 110º/s


Suddenly the 110-115º twist rate on the KDK doesn't seem so out of place.

Especially when compared against real Mediums, like the Cicada pulling a 190º/s, HBK at 145º, Crab at 150º, YLW 155º, etc.

All it's realyl doing is showing that the IICs got shafted (something we already knew, though Jenny and Hunch II are still decent enough), not that the KDK is uber. Especially since it's a huge target with most DPS firepower.

So...you were saying?

That a mech with this much firepower should not twist this fast.

Victor, MR Gargle and the Awesome do not have great mid range firepower.

Edited by Mcgral18, 21 May 2016 - 02:31 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcgral18, on 21 May 2016 - 02:31 PM, said:

That a mech with this much firepower should not twist this fast.

Victor, MR Gargle and the Awesome do not have great mid range firepower.

When and IF the dread 4UAC KDK3 becomes the official MetaMech of MLMW, RHoD, etc, I'll buy into your theory.

It's a damn good mech. So far, that's all it is. It's also not as agile as you liek to claim, it's hotter than heck, is all CT, and a HUGE CT at that. Oh and it's DPS based firepower, and regularly is outbrawled "IRL" by AS7-S, OUt Dakka'd by MALs, etc.

Oh, and that oddly this UberMonster? Is falling in line with the Warhammer for event score. Huh.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 21 May 2016 - 02:42 PM.

[Gyrok]

Mcgral18, on 21 May 2016 - 02:31 PM, said:

That a mech with this much firepower should not twist this fast.

Victor, MR Gargle and the Awesome do not have great mid range firepower.

The Atlas, however, can have great mid-range firepower...and it twists similarly...is the Atlas OP mcgral?

[Clownwarlord]

No the Kodiak needs kicked in the nuts. *Remove the quirks and Kodiak will be fine.*

[Gyrok]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 May 2016 - 02:34 PM, said:

When and IF the dread 4UAC KDK3 becomes the official MetaMech of MLMW, RHoD, etc, I'll buy into your theory.

It's a damn good mech. So far, that's all it is. It's also not as agile as you liek to claim, it's hotter than heck, is all CT, and a HUGE CT at that. Oh and it's DPS based firepower, and regularly is outbrawled "IRL" by AS7-S, OUt Dakka'd by MALs, etc.

Oh, and that oddly this UberMonster? Is falling in line with the Warhammer for event score. Huh.

Surprise, surprise...there is more to the picture than presented....who would have thought bias would come from mcgral?

[Bishop Steiner]

Captain Luffy, on 21 May 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:

No the Kodiak needs kicked in the nuts. *Remove the quirks and Kodiak will be fine.*

give some objective details to back that, and I'll take you seriously.

[Mcgral18]

Gyrok, on 21 May 2016 - 02:42 PM, said:

The Atlas, however, can have great mid-range firepower...and it twists similarly...is the Atlas OP mcgral?

No, the Atlas does not have good Mid range firepower.
It has good SHORT range firepower


There's a few hundred meter difference there.


It also lacks any decent mounts (which is why it can't do mid range)

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcgral18, on 21 May 2016 - 02:47 PM, said:

No, the Atlas does not have good Mid range firepower.
It has good SHORT range firepower


There's a few hundred meter difference there.


It also lacks any decent mounts (which is why it can't do mid range)

This is true, of course, it's far better at actual short range firepower than the "can't twist/can't do PP-FLD" KDK3.

Go figure, they each have their role. Oh, and the MAL still wrecks the KDK at mid to long range. (as does the 6 UAC5 DWF since agility is not as important in that bracket)

[Trauglodyte]

Gyrok, on 21 May 2016 - 01:52 PM, said:

UAC20 cannot fire more than 1 at a time, and UAC10 has ghost heat on more than 2 at once.

UAC10 build for KDK3 is absurdly hot, 10s and 5s will end up being the real build anyone serious is using.

We suggested that prior to Tuesday night over on /reddit but everyone was keen on quad UAC/10s. I still think 2x Gauss 2x UAC/10s is nice too.

The truth is, the Kodiak isn't really bad. It has been said a million times and I've been saying it a lot, it is hard to get an idea of how it actually operates when you're seeing 3-6 on a side per game. Add in the fact that a lot of the Kodiak drivers are Steam players that don't know their heads from their butts and you're getting games where one side just steamrolls <no pun> over the other.

[IQcreditscore]

I haven't seen a kodiak that was super uber scary in a 1v1 (although the uac is annoyingly good). A majority of kodiak drivers are mediocre (like the gen pop) and even in a thunderbolt pulse build they don't feel overwhelmingly op. When they get all of their basic skills etc then maybe they will be op. Remains to be seen.

The big Ct is the counterweight to it's ability to boat a lot of sustainable dps. I highly doubt it will get fixed as I suspect the uac build will be stupid good when skilled out. Currently that's the only downside. Reducing projectiles or increasing the uac projectile speed will only strengthen the kodiak too much as autocannons/uac's downside is their "facetime" and slow projectile speed. If you reduce that facetime and increase the tankiness of the mech it would feel op. If the projectile speed goes up a kodiak driver can increase the range which also is a big plus. Other mechs might need this but the kdk doesn't seem to atm.

Edited by FLINTCOIN, 21 May 2016 - 02:55 PM.

[Gyrok]

Mcgral18, on 21 May 2016 - 02:47 PM, said:

No, the Atlas does not have good Mid range firepower.
It has good SHORT range firepower


There's a few hundred meter difference there.


It also lacks any decent mounts (which is why it can't do mid range)

I suppose builds like this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...62536f8c2d83e4a

This: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...af553b678f65bdf

or this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...53a94e0642897f2

Just cannot be run on the Atlas...?

EDIT: While those are not going to set anything on fire because the hardpoints are not optimal like, say, a wubshee...you can build the Atlas with viable options for mid range.

Edited by Gyrok, 21 May 2016 - 02:57 PM.

[AssaultPig]

all they'd need to do is add more ghost heat on 3+ UAC10s; the other fits it can run (dual 20s, 4xUAC5) aren't terribly intimidating

[Mystere]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 May 2016 - 01:56 PM, said:

Yup. Too many people afraid of a bogeyman that isn't even the real monster. Doesn't help certain other forum voices have people convinced that it can move like a bloody 50 tonner, too.

*smh*

Hysteria, much?

Where have you been hiding? Maybe it's time for a change of scenery.

[Mystere]

Captain Luffy, on 21 May 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:

No the Kodiak needs kicked in the nuts. *Remove the quirks and Kodiak will be fine.*

Just remove all quirks, IS and Clan alike. They're supposed to be for flavor between variants. Instead they've become an abomination used for "balancing".

[Mcgral18]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 May 2016 - 02:49 PM, said:

This is true, of course, it's far better at actual short range firepower than the "can't twist/can't do PP-FLD" KDK3.

Go figure, they each have their role. Oh, and the MAL still wrecks the KDK at mid to long range. (as does the 6 UAC5 DWF since agility is not as important in that bracket)

Yep, Mauler competes for mid range Dakka (and does it much more effieciently, at longer range)

Atlas is good at short range...not what Gyrok is listing below

Gyrok, on 21 May 2016 - 02:55 PM, said:

I suppose builds like this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...62536f8c2d83e4a

This: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...af553b678f65bdf

or this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...53a94e0642897f2

Just cannot be run on the Atlas...?

EDIT: While those are not going to set anything on fire because the hardpoints are not optimal like, say, a wubshee...you can build the Atlas with viable options for mid range.

Those are bad.

Outright bad on Atlai. Low arm lasers mean you need to expose everything (VS just the cockpit/half torso on the SupaHunch)
It's like keeping an XL400 on the K-3

Please don't tell me you'd try the third with an XL400...


It needs to twist to survive (even with IS quirks), and spread the damage out, not stare.

[Gyrok]

Mcgral18, on 21 May 2016 - 03:48 PM, said:

Yep, Mauler competes for mid range Dakka (and does it much more effieciently, at longer range)

Atlas is good at short range...not what Gyrok is listing below

Yes, the Mauler is better past about 450-500m for sure.

Quote

Those are bad.

Outright bad on Atlai. Low arm lasers mean you need to expose everything (VS just the cockpit/half torso on the SupaHunch)
It's like keeping an XL400 on the K-3

You clearly have not seen some of the Atlas builds roaming puglandia...even as a tier 1 pilot I still see **** builds that baffle me. Like a KDK-SB the other night with 4 LRM15s, a single MG, and 2 ERPPCs. Seriously...?

Quote

Please don't tell me you'd try the third with an XL400...


It needs to twist to survive (even with IS quirks), and spread the damage out, not stare.

Look at the smurfy...STD 350 is fine.

Edited by Gyrok, 21 May 2016 - 06:19 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Gyrok, on 21 May 2016 - 06:19 PM, said:

Look at the smurfy...STD 350 is fine.

But then it does not twist superior to the Kodiak (in a similar brawling fashion) which is what you said it did (or could, which it technically can)

[QuantumButler]

Gentleman Reaper, on 19 May 2016 - 08:11 PM, said:

It's generally accepted that the KDK-3 is the most powerful Kodiak because of UAC boating, but stick on a normal AC or an LB-X and it's even if not worse than the rest. When you have 4 UAC-10s, the number of them makes up for the jam chance, so it means that it will rarely stop firing if it's not being fired upon.

Make UACs have a longer cooldown if you double-tap, so you choose between burst-DPS or sustained DPS. Anyone have their own ideas?

I have a novel idea, nothing needs to change because 4UAC10s aren't OP.

[Agent 0range]

Using flamers against care bears are fun the quad cuac10 KD-3 shuts down rather fast when spamming. need to be close but try to think outside the box.

Edited by Agent 0range, 21 May 2016 - 08:15 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Agent 0range, on 21 May 2016 - 08:14 PM, said:

Using flamers against care bears are fun the quad cuac10 KD-3 shuts down rather fast when spamming. need to be close but try to think outside the box.

is a Reason my SB packs a pair of Flamers.... it's amazing what it does to the disposition of the Enemy Bear... all while I SRM away. With occasional Dakka.