285 replies to this topic

[crustydog]

Bud Crue, on 24 May 2016 - 03:51 AM, said:

Even for these folks it is apparent that the only way a player can influence anything is to join a unit, and then that unit (loyalist or merc) needs a dedicated team of multiple dedicated players or 12 mans to influence anything on the planetary map. Anyone with less dedication than that, or simply time available to play, may as well not bother...

And this is, ironically enough, one of the reasons why we need the large teams, and team influenced places such as the FRR TS HUB. Teams are generally the people that pay for the TS hubs.

FW is a team based game, or it is certainly supposed to be. It is not supposed to be a place for the random casual player. That certainly does not mean the random casual player cannot find a place to get winning games in CW. They can do so wherever a supportive environment to do this is being set up and operated by teams.

All kinds of teams regularly pick up random players to fill out their ranks for an evening of drops. This also happens to be one of the best places for these new players to learn new skills. Exposure to the experienced players is the fastest route of all for player development.

At FRR, teams have set up a public hub, including areas where random players can group up and drop together. Solo players and casuals can group up, sometimes with partial teams jumping in, sometimes with experienced drop commanders, and go on to enjoy victories on the field.

The players who have the worst experience are the new ones who just jump in there alone, ill equipped, no coms, and unsupported. Expect a rough ride.

I used to do that too. Then I learned how to make it better. Teams is what made it better.

Humans organize in groups to overcome challenges - we are, in fact, designed to do this, and designed to be happier when we are doing this. It's not just in games, it's in everything we do. Family is a kind of team.... and any team is also kind of family.

I get by with the help of my friends.



Some people prefer solitaire - the game is very popular. They don't go around saying we need to get rid of poker.

That sort of thing might get you placed in a hospital, you know, to be managed by a team.

Edited by crustydog, 26 May 2016 - 12:27 AM.

[MischiefSC]

crustydog, on 24 May 2016 - 02:49 PM, said:

I don't know, does MS have a legitimate complaint?

( side note: I don't just play for Mercstar, these effects are similarly impacting players elsewhere:)

As MS, we often took two or more planets during the NA phase during CW phase 1 & 2. Some nights we took 4 planets in a single phase. Sure we dominated the game. We won a bucket-load of battles to make all that happen. Some nights we fought well over 100 battles, on multiple fronts. There were games for a couple of thousand player drops on some nights, half for us, half for our opponents, involving several hundreds of players. A veritable hive of gaming activity.

Now we only get to fight on one planet, for the entire faction, which lasts two to three hours, 13 to 30 battles max, involving sometimes less than 100 total players over the entire phase. Then the game is finished, over, Kaputski. We have nights where there are ZERO planets to defend - one attack planet only, that's it. Guess it's a good thing only 8% of MS are trying to play FW these days.

You don't have to worry about MS beating up on poor puglings anymore, because MS can no longer play the game at all. Your faction dominance, unit size and seal harvesting woes are so phase 2 - they are now completely out of style.

I guess that is fair. I guess other games get more time and money now as well.

Maybe players will leave MS and go to other units, just to find more games? Maybe, but I doubt it. All units are just as restricted for match availability as MS is. More likely, they will play more league play, more group queue, more harvesting in solo queue, and definitely more time in other games.

This is still PGI's game, and if they want to screw it up this badly, well, they can. I feel sad for what happened to FW in phase three, and especially sad for the hundreds, or perhaps even thousands of players out there who can now no longer get a full night of drops all because of PGI incompetence and a degree of willful neglect. They sabotaged their own game, and at least part of that was done deliberately.

We old timers used to call that "bite off your nose to spite your face." It is the act of fools.

Not exactly the kind of thing to inspire investor confidence in the company.

PGI promised to develop this game - it sure sounded great in promotion - but they have so far failed to follow through on their promise. They talked a good game, but in the end it looks like it was mostly just that. It now appears to many experienced programmers here that they simply do not have what it takes to make this vision into a reality.

I wanted to learn from the best and the brightest players here, but that is becoming harder and harder to do, because the best players are leaving - oh they still have their accounts and all, but they just don't show up like they used to. Pugs will always be pugs and whiners will always be whiners, and the best players will always rise to the top, in any environment, regardless of the challenge. It is as true in games as it is in life.

But veteran players here are now using words like "exodus." PGI may have been more right than they know when they labeled CW / FW "End Game content." Many veterans are still sticking around, just to see if PGI is going to fix this, but you can rest assured they already have one foot firmly out the door.

On the bright side, Battletech and Mechwarrior have been around for a very long time, something like 30 years, in one form or another. MWO is merely the latest incarnation, and if it should fall, I've no doubt something new, and probably better, will appear before long.

Case in point, that new Battletech game didn't have any problems raising starter funds from the whales over here. A healthy cash boost to get that ball rolling. Perhaps what PGI has failed to realize all along is it is they who need us. The same is not exactly true the other way around. IBM made that mistake in the 1980's, and it nearly cost them their empire.

I've run my share of companies over the years, some more successfully than others. I built them and broken them, so I understand fully both sides of the equation. I have ridden several of these horses.

Based on decades of prior experience I can now tell you something with absolute certainty. If this was my company, and I cared about the future of this company, you can be absolutely sure that if the leading player unit of my primary show home product is screaming at the top of their lungs that there is a massively serious problem, you can be damned sure I would be listening just as closely as I can.

If they are not listening now, it means they have already abandoned the product, that they have written it off.

The proverbial ball, at this point, is very much in PGI's court.

Yes, but most of you still bought the Kodiak.

The failures of FW are not actually costing PGI much of anything from their perspective. We're buying mech packs as often or more so than before. So they can afford to write it off and just churn mech packs and giving vague promises of something new to string people along.

Because we keep paying them to do so.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

MischiefSC, on 24 May 2016 - 11:08 PM, said:

The failures of FW are not actually costing PGI much of anything from their perspective. We're buying mech packs as often or more so than before. So they can afford to write it off and just churn mech packs and giving vague promises of something new to string people along.

Because we keep paying them to do so.

QFT.

Easiest way to get a business' attention is with money.

They do something you like? Spend money there.
They do something you don't like? Don't spend money there.

Griping that the development of this game has stagnated while gobbling up the latest mechpack is like griping that your dog keeps getting on the couch when you never tell it to get off.

[Arkbird_]

MischiefSC, on 24 May 2016 - 11:08 PM, said:

Yes, but most of you still bought the Kodiak.

The failures of FW are not actually costing PGI much of anything from their perspective. We're buying mech packs as often or more so than before. So they can afford to write it off and just churn mech packs and giving vague promises of something new to string people along.

Because we keep paying them to do so.

Many of those that bought Kodiaks did so in February (for early adopters) way before this whole mess. As well as many just prior to it's release while the CW queues were still quite active and everything "seemed" okay at the time.

These issues will affect later mechpacks.

Edited by Arkbird Phoenix Kell, 25 May 2016 - 01:27 AM.

[Bud Crue]

This thread has sort of gone off the rails in re it being about Mercstar and how it has influenced P3 and vice versa, and now segued into what I see as the real issue: namely PGI making bad game mechanics and what we as players can do about it.

Those of you saying essentially: "Speak with your $...stop buying mech packs! That will show PGI the error of its ways!" PGI has stated that less than 10% of the community plays FP. That already tells them the mode sucks. Ceasing the purchase of mech packs is not going to make PGI suddenly realize that FP is broken. They already know it is broken via the existing numbers.

So if the game is as it is and likely isn't going to get much better via PGI's conduct (see Russ's comments on P3 is it and we will only have minor tweeks here on out) what do we do to get more people playing (assuming we want to keep playing) ?
All sides need to think about this. Cutting off funds to PGI is not the answer, nor is blaming those few people (less than 10%) such as Mercstar for actually playing the game.

All I can think of is to spam Russ and the rest of PGI's staffs' twitter accounts with these sorts of concerns (in a polite manner, etc) cuz it is pretty clear that PGI is not paying attention to what is discussed here.

[Fanatic]

Solaris is the next CW FW FP

[Crockdaddy]

Bud Crue, on 25 May 2016 - 03:00 AM, said:

This thread has sort of gone off the rails in re it being about Mercstar and how it has influenced P3 and vice versa, and now segued into what I see as the real issue: namely PGI making bad game mechanics and what we as players can do about it.

Those of you saying essentially: "Speak with your $...stop buying mech packs! That will show PGI the error of its ways!" PGI has stated that less than 10% of the community plays FP. That already tells them the mode sucks. Ceasing the purchase of mech packs is not going to make PGI suddenly realize that FP is broken. They already know it is broken via the existing numbers.

So if the game is as it is and likely isn't going to get much better via PGI's conduct (see Russ's comments on P3 is it and we will only have minor tweeks here on out) what do we do to get more people playing (assuming we want to keep playing) ?
All sides need to think about this. Cutting off funds to PGI is not the answer, nor is blaming those few people (less than 10%) such as Mercstar for actually playing the game.

All I can think of is to spam Russ and the rest of PGI's staffs' twitter accounts with these sorts of concerns (in a polite manner, etc) cuz it is pretty clear that PGI is not paying attention to what is discussed here.

A short list of top 5 issues would maybe help. Something we can tweet 140 characters at a time.

[Bud Crue]

Crockdaddy, on 25 May 2016 - 06:47 AM, said:

A short list of top 5 issues would maybe help. Something we can tweet 140 characters at a time.

I'd go with the following for starters (no idea of word count but they look short enough)

-FP needs CW. Need more players in factions so community can grow. More rewards needed for loyalists for start.
-FP needs fronts. Too many factions means not enough fights, to slow, drives people away. Go wt 5: 2 clan 2 is 1 clan-v-is.
-FP recruit fees need to go. Just hurts everyone. Big units not the problem.
-FP needs recruitment/training mode...reduced rewards (1/3?). Let anyone drop with anyone. No affect on map.
-FP needs new maps. Lots of new maps. Open this up to community, we want to help.

I think they are self explanatory. I am sure some of you smart tech and savvy gamer folks have ideas of your own and/or can improve those I list above, but this is what I would go with for a twitter spam campaign, as a start for fixing what I see is wrong with CW.

A bonus 6th tweet:
- A little lore goes a long way. Import Sarna descriptions into game where possible.

[M A N T I S]

Bud Crue, on 25 May 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

-FP recruit fees need to go. Just hurts everyone. Big units not the problem.

Disagree.

[Bud Crue]

M A N T I S, on 25 May 2016 - 10:17 AM, said:

Disagree.

Fine. pick one of the others and go to twitter town. Those are just my views. By all means tweet your own ideas instead.
As long as we are attempting to rationally communicate and making an effort to fix/help the game then I don't care what is tweeted to the PGI folks. Anything is better than nothing, and it is certainly better than "its all Mercstar's fault!"

[Groutknoll]

crustydog, on 24 May 2016 - 03:30 PM, said:

You see KCOM, think Henry Fonda. You see Mercstar, think The Wild Bunch. Apples and Oranges, completely different approaches, both very effective.

Can i be a grape?

[crustydog]

MischiefSC, on 24 May 2016 - 11:08 PM, said:

Yes, but most of you still bought the Kodiak.

The failures of FW are not actually costing PGI much of anything from their perspective. We're buying mech packs as often or more so than before. So they can afford to write it off and just churn mech packs and giving vague promises of something new to string people along.

Because we keep paying them to do so.

Yeah but, The Kodiak's are Cool!

[crustydog]

Groutknoll, on 25 May 2016 - 10:32 AM, said:

Can i be a grape?

Sigh...

Yes Grout, you can be a grape....

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Bud Crue, on 25 May 2016 - 03:00 AM, said:

This thread has sort of gone off the rails in re it being about Mercstar and how it has influenced P3 and vice versa, and now segued into what I see as the real issue: namely PGI making bad game mechanics and what we as players can do about it.

Those of you saying essentially: "Speak with your $...stop buying mech packs! That will show PGI the error of its ways!" PGI has stated that less than 10% of the community plays FP. That already tells them the mode sucks. Ceasing the purchase of mech packs is not going to make PGI suddenly realize that FP is broken. They already know it is broken via the existing numbers.

So if the game is as it is and likely isn't going to get much better via PGI's conduct (see Russ's comments on P3 is it and we will only have minor tweeks here on out) what do we do to get more people playing (assuming we want to keep playing) ?
All sides need to think about this. Cutting off funds to PGI is not the answer, nor is blaming those few people (less than 10%) such as Mercstar for actually playing the game.

All I can think of is to spam Russ and the rest of PGI's staffs' twitter accounts with these sorts of concerns (in a polite manner, etc) cuz it is pretty clear that PGI is not paying attention to what is discussed here.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, except that if someone is doing a mediocre job but still getting paid then they'll keep doing a mediocre job.

PGI knows CW or FW or whatever it's called now is mediocre and that such a tiny fraction of the playerbase actually plays. We tell them what's wrong via Reddit, Twitter, and the official forums.

Sadly though, the only time they seem to listen is when the community goes Nero on the Forums and Twitter and people start talking about refunds. Basically when we start hitting them in the pocketbook.

I don't remember what it was, but they were getting ready to release one of the packs that was coming out near one of their REALLY boneheaded ideas. I know the forums were ablaze about refunds, and I'm not sure how many people carried through on their threat, but I do know about two dozen of us in QQ did ask for refunds and did receive them.

I hate that it's like that (at least from my perspective), but when I got the confirmation I recieved my refund I let then know with a response that I was unhappy with the state of the game (specifically CW) and that I'm not willing to spend anymore money until it's actually fleshed out. And I'm not a small spender, I've dropped about $800 on this game since CB so they know I'm willing to drop mad dosh, just not on the current state of affairs.

But that's just how I've noticed things over the last few years.

[Bud Crue]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 25 May 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

quote

I hear ya. I think what you say is very reasonable. Your tactic was directed, well communicated and reasoned. The more prevalent view being expressed by many that I see however is that if we all stop buying mech packs, PGI will intuitively figure out that we are not buying mech packs because CW needs to be fixed. No. That isn't how it works. As your anecdote makes clear cutting off the $ is only part of it. We also need to communicate WHY we are cutting of the $ and what we want from PGI in order for the cash flow to resume. You did that. I am not seeing many others even trying.

Personally, I have 2K+ spent on this game. I have stopped buying. But I have also tried to propose to PGI here and elsewhere what I want/need for me to renew my spending. No response thus far. In no instance however do I see it logical to equate PGI's failures and shortcomings with the choice of others to fund a game that they enjoy, flaws and all.

[RustyBolts]

I posted this in another thread, but it appears to apply here now also. I have supported the tournament, bought several Hero mechs, MC on a few occasions and every single Clan pack offered until the Kodiak. I was tired of throwing money at PGI only to get a substandard game with awesome designed mechs. So I decided to stop throwing money at PGI until Phase three was released. If Phase three changed my mind, I would again start putting money in PGI's wallet. However, Phase three was yet another let down that was just CW Beta 2.1. So I will continue to keep my money in my pocket until either PGI starts actually doing something positive with this game, or until another company takes over.

I have taken my stance with PGI and as hard as it is to pass up the new shiny mech pack of the month, I will not cave in. I AM DONE PGI!

Edited by RustyBolts, 25 May 2016 - 12:39 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Refund what you've got ordered, say why is the best approach. Don't buy, say why in the release thread.

However I don't have high expectations for that because we buy stuff regardless.

PGI has had the problems with FW explained a billion times. They don't listen and they don't care, until it affects sales. Then they'll make a small change and some promises they will never deliver.

I've been "giving PGI a chance" for years. More times than I can count. They keep failing to deliver. They make decisions totally divorced from reality.

I have no expectations of it getting fixed because the only thing PGI case consistently proven is that they will fail to deliver a viable product and if it's broken and the fix is more than changing a value in 1 field on a spreadsheet it won't get fixed.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Bud Crue, on 25 May 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:

snip

I'd love to spend more. This is the only PvP game I still play, I haven't had this much fun in a PvP since BF2.

Agreed that people just stopping the spending won't do much. But telling them why you're stopping the spending should. Should being the keyword. I just wish PGI was a bit more interactive and open.

And people that are fine with the game, keep spending. But I do see a lot of people keep complaining a lot but keep buying. And it just totally puzzles me.

[Danjo San]

People tend to forget that you are spending money not for a materialistic good, but for entertainment purpose, like going to the movies, to the zoo, to a museum etc.
If you dislike the experience you will not go back, apparently something is right and you were entertained so you continue to spend money.
Now just because you don't like 1 exhibition you saw at the museum does not mean the museum sucks, it merely means the curator did not find the right pictures to hang. So instead of unfunding the museum bringing you enertainment, let the administration know you were unpleased with the exhibition the curator put up.

Edited by Danjo San, 25 May 2016 - 11:16 PM.

[Commander A9]

Regardless of what you think of us, we're not going away.

We're going to stay with Community Warfare.

We're going to keep adapting, evolving, improving, and fighting like razors.

The content on forums does not preclude our activities, nor does it define them. Proof of our abilities is in the map and our game performance, which takes precedence over all else.

So, I encourage everyone to drop with us and learn from us BEFORE you render judgment-then you'll see what we are firsthand.

Edited by Commander A9, 26 May 2016 - 11:18 AM.