46 replies to this topic

[Malorish]

So I've got some spare time on my hands, and wanted to start a series on resurrecting some of the "dead mechs" out there. These are mechs that just aren't anywhere near competitive in the current meta.

Today let's look at one of my favorites: The Catapult CPLT-K2


This mech is the one non-paywall Catapult that forsakes the missile launchers and embraces Dakka and energy weapons. Let's look at it's positives and negatives.

Pro's:

• One high mounted energy weapon slot in each arm.
  
• Looks cool.
  
• Decent (but not great) hitboxes, with a lot of structure buffs

Con's:

• Ballistic hardpoints are terribly low.
  
• Low cockpit means even though you've got high energy hardpoints, you need to expose a lot of the mech to see what you're shooting at.
  
• One of the worst torso pitches (the vertical range of motion for the torso) in the game, making the torso mounted weapons useless on anything other than completely flat terrain.
  
• No jumpjets like it's paywall Jester cousin to help with the low mounted torso weapons.
  
• Only 1 hardpoint in each arm, and only 4 total energy and 2 total ballistic hardpoints.
  
• Arms are pretty terrible shields, making torso twisting a lot less effective.
  
• Poor weapon quirks that don't work together.

Bringing the CPLT-K2 Back From The Dead:

So how do we resurrect this mech, especially in light of newer mechs that feature a ton of high mounted hardpoints that can boat some serious Alpha?

• Move those ballistic hardpoints up to at least cockpit level. PGI is currently looking to do that, as witnessed in the recent sneak peak images of the CPLT-K2
  
• Add an additional energy (or even ballistic) hardpoint in each arm. Maybe even something asymmetric like 1E/1B in the LA and 2E in the right arm. Spice it up, and give it some more build options.
  
• Add a +10% energy range quirk so it can keep up with it's other laser vomit competitors
  
• Double the torso pitch, especially the negative (downward) pitch to make those torso hardpoints viable.
  
• (Optionally) Add jump jet capability (though this might take away some of the Jester's uniqueness).

What do you think? How would you revive this dead mech?

[Nerdboard]

Personally I don't think its dead at all. Due to the structur quirks and hitbox readjustments its insanely tanky. Feels like the most tanky 65t mech in the game to me (haven't checked any numbers).

Wouldnt change a thing on that mech.

[Alistair Winter]

Like every iconic mech in MWO, I would try to keep its original purpose in mind. The CPLT-K2 is a classic PPC carrier, so I would give it characteristics based on that fact.

• Great PPC quirks
  
• Solid armour buffs for the arms
  
• Extra energy hardpoints so you can effectively combine PPCs with medium lasers. We all know that if the CPLT-K2 was released today, both arms would have at least 2 energy hardpoints. (Incidentally, this is all it takes to make the CPLT-K2 the energy sniper it was always meant to be)
  
• Remove the pointless torso twist nerf, because the CPLT-K2 depends on mobility and agility to stay out of PPC minimum range in a brawl.
  
• F*ck ballistic quirks

[Bishop Steiner]

Hit box adjustment was nice.

Curious where it's toughness will be post rescale/requirk.

Has good PPC quirks.

Wouldn't mind seeing it get it's old hard points back (after all, the Butterbee will be getting 8 hard points) and would love to see it get it's old twist range back. Would really probably favor accel/decel buffs over most options

[ThreeStooges]

The K2 is my best mech. As a ppc or er ppc mech it sucks balls due to how much heat fire them at the same time does. I have mine mastered. I use mine as a ac 10 or lbx build depending on my mood. I lose the arms all the time so I don't notice how much shield power they have lost.

It would need a combination of panther's ppc speed quirks with the awesome's ppc heat reduction for me to ever mount ppcs on it again. They just move to slow to hit long range targets and generate too much heat for the damage done. I've mounted the xl 300 or the 280 to combat the speed creep of most mechs now. 64khp is fine for an assault but not a heavy when you have other heavies and a few assaults running laps around you. Tbr's 90 speed must be nice.

[Malorish]

Alistair Winter, on 21 May 2016 - 04:08 PM, said:

Like every iconic mech in MWO, I would try to keep its original purpose in mind. The CPLT-K2 is a classic PPC carrier, so I would give it characteristics based on that fact.

• Great PPC quirks
  
• Solid armour buffs for the arms
  
• Extra energy hardpoints so you can effectively combine PPCs with medium lasers. We all know that if the CPLT-K2 was released today, both arms would have at least 2 energy hardpoints. (Incidentally, this is all it takes to make the CPLT-K2 the energy sniper it was always meant to be)
  
• Remove the pointless torso twist nerf, because the CPLT-K2 depends on mobility and agility to stay out of PPC minimum range in a brawl.
  
• F*ck ballistic quirks

I think if you go with the "Classic PPC Carrier" niche for it, it definitely needs some better PPC quirks other than the current Velocity Quirk (which is required to even make PPCs work). It needs a hefty -20% PPC Heat Generation quirk and a nice PPC cooldown quirk as well. Frankly if this is the direction PGI wants people to build, I'd love to see some quirks like "No PPC Minimum Range" or a splash damage quirk that worked like clan ER PPCs (or both).

[Wintersdark]

Nerdboard, on 21 May 2016 - 04:06 PM, said:

Personally I don't think its dead at all. Due to the structur quirks and hitbox readjustments its insanely tanky. Feels like the most tanky 65t mech in the game to me (haven't checked any numbers).

Wouldnt change a thing on that mech.

It's pretty decent, indeed. Not the best, but a solid enough chassis.

Come next patch, it's getting rescaled (shrinking a fair bit) and a full remodel to boot.

[Andi Nagasia]

Wintersdark, on 21 May 2016 - 05:32 PM, said:

It's pretty decent, indeed. Not the best, but a solid enough chassis.

Come next patch, it's getting rescaled (shrinking a fair bit) and a full remodel to boot.

yup Should be awesome to Run Again(i sold it back was i was being stupid need to re Buy)

[GreyNovember]

Alistair Winter, on 21 May 2016 - 04:08 PM, said:

• Extra energy hardpoints so you can effectively combine PPCs with medium lasers. We all know that if the CPLT-K2 was released today, both arms would have at least 2 energy hardpoints. (Incidentally, this is all it takes to make the CPLT-K2 the energy sniper it was always meant to be)

I think we all know that if it had 4E mounted up high, it wouldn't be used for PPC/ML.

It'd be used for 4 ERLL / LL.

[Alistair Winter]

GreyNovember, on 21 May 2016 - 07:09 PM, said:

I think we all know that if it had 4E mounted up high, it wouldn't be used for PPC/ML.

It'd be used for 4 ERLL / LL.

That would still be preferable to AC 10 / ML. And I don't think 4 LL would be that good without laser quirks.

[kapusta11]

Lol, first they cry for PPC nerfs then they oppose any kind of sensible buffs to PPCs and cry about K2 being worthless. Way to go.

[zagibu]

kapusta11, on 22 May 2016 - 02:36 AM, said:

Lol, first they cry for PPC nerfs then they oppose any kind of sensible buffs to PPCs and cry about K2 being worthless. Way to go.

Who?

[kapusta11]

zagibu, on 22 May 2016 - 02:52 AM, said:

Who?

Would you agree if PGI increased Ghost Heat Cap for PPCs to 3?

[Khobai]

All catapults should get +2M hardpoints

And jester/K2 should get +2E hardpoints

That would fix the lack of hardpoint at least

Edited by Khobai, 22 May 2016 - 03:02 AM.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Dual AC20 Cat ftw!

[JC Daxion]

well i still think a dual PPC+ac5 K2 rocks.. I can't wait till next month to break this bad boy out again. but till then i'm leveling my clams

[vibrant]

Wintersdark, on 21 May 2016 - 05:32 PM, said:

Come next patch, it's getting rescaled (shrinking a fair bit) and a full remodel to boot.

Is there a thread or page somewhere that indicates which mechs are probably going to be rescaled, and in which direction? I haven't seen anything but hearsay...

[JC Daxion]

vibrant, on 22 May 2016 - 03:32 AM, said:

Is there a thread or page somewhere that indicates which mechs are probably going to be rescaled, and in which direction? I haven't seen anything but hearsay...

Umm if you dig around you can find some qoutes that said how much certain mechs wer being rescaled. But as far as a complete list and the %'s no. Catapult is one of the ones getting a pretty decent revamp though. Same with the Nova and a few others. the Black jack is growing a few %, the shadow hawk is shrinking a few %.. The patch is about a month off, and honestly i don't expect to see a full list till patch notes arrive.

I am sure someone has a bit of a list on %'s things changes, but like i said it's far from complete from what i have seen

[Bishop Steiner]

kapusta11, on 22 May 2016 - 02:55 AM, said:

Would you agree if PGI increased Ghost Heat Cap for PPCs to 3?

For the AWS and Warhawk I'd be fine with that.

Ghost Heat Cap isn't what's holding back the PPC for most people. For most it's velocity (ease of hitting stuff) heat and hitreg.

vibrant, on 22 May 2016 - 03:32 AM, said:

Is there a thread or page somewhere that indicates which mechs are probably going to be rescaled, and in which direction? I haven't seen anything but hearsay...

Off the top of my head no clue. On the other hand Russ has said that essentially every single mech was looked at and the vast majority got rescaled, though the exact percents of changes vary. Which is what took so long once started. Was going to be 3-4 initially then they finally started to see what I've been telling them for 3+ years about their scale being freaking idiotic....

[Mavairo]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 May 2016 - 06:47 AM, said:

For the AWS and Warhawk I'd be fine with that.

Ghost Heat Cap isn't what's holding back the PPC for most people. For most it's velocity (ease of hitting stuff) heat and hitreg.


Off the top of my head no clue. On the other hand Russ has said that essentially every single mech was looked at and the vast majority got rescaled, though the exact percents of changes vary. Which is what took so long once started. Was going to be 3-4 initially then they finally started to see what I've been telling them for 3+ years about their scale being freaking idiotic....

I drool at the thought of the DRG being a super small compact heavy...