111 replies to this topic

[Malorish]

Volume 2 in a series on resurrecting some of the "dead mechs" out there. These are mechs that just aren't anywhere near competitive in the current meta.

Today let's look at another of my favorites: The Centurion



The Centurion was one of the first mechs introduced into MWO, and the first mech that I actually spent real money on. I received one from some event, and in order to master it, I needed to buy two more. But I didn't have enough mechbays, so this is the mech that finally got me to start dumping money into MWO.

The design behind this mech, and all variants except for the CN9-AL, is very simple: it's a short range asymmetric AC / SRM brawler. It even has a shield arm (Left Arm) that is pretty unique to other mechs. Let's look at it's positives and negatives.

Pro's:

• Pretty dang good hitboxes, even after they've been expanded a couple of times.
  
• Pretty nimble with good agility quirks.
  
• Capable of mounting a decent alpha strike for a medium, especially on the CN9-A
  
• Most have a twin Energy hardpoint in the chest, which in theory makes for a decent zombie.

Con's:

• All variants except the CN9-A are very dependent on the right arm, which in today's MWO high alpha environment just doesn't stand up to enough punishment despite additional armor and structure quirks.
  
• Most variants extremely dependent on heavy AC / SRM systems, including the weight of ammo which is tough on a 50 ton mech and builds often require XL engines.
  
• Despite the Left Arm being a dedicated shield lending to what should be an asymmetric design, the missile launchers are in the Left Torso, rather than the Right Torso, making them extremely vulnerable and actually reducing the value of shielding.
  
• "Zombie-ing" a couple of MLs in the center torso was a great idea 4 years ago. In today's high alpha environment it's a bit of a joke.
  
• While not a terribly low hardpoint location, packing so much punch in the right arm makes for a hard time hill humping.
  
• Most variants really don't have that many hardpoints.

Bringing the Centurion Back From The Dead:

So how do we resurrect this mech, especially in light of newer mechs that feature a ton of high mounted hardpoints that can boat some serious Alpha?

• Re-align the hardpoints to match the asymmetric design of the mech - everything should be located either in the center torso or on the Right side of the mech, making the entire left side of the mech shielding. Additionally, quirk the Left shield arm with additional armor to encourage this.
  
• Add an additional energy hardpoint in the head on every variant. This keeps the "zombie" feel of the mech while allowing it to pack a bit more punch.
  
• On variants with multiple energy or ballistic hardpoints in the Right Arm, move one over to the right Torso.
  
• All variants except Yen Lo Wang should carry a +20% SRM Range Quirk
  
• All should have +50% ammo Quirk to free up some tonnage to make better use of builds, and encourage builds with a standard engines (again back to the zombie / asymmetric feel of the mech)

What do you think? How would you revive this dead mech?

[Bishop Steiner]

CN9 is my second most used chassis.

Only thing "dead" about it is most people's understanding of how to pilot one.

I also find that they, along with HBKs are examples of generally well quirked mechs.

The only change I would see making is upping the engine cap on all models to 300, save of course, the D which already exceeds that (and the YLW which is already there).

I like that Centurions aren't "Piloting for Dummies" Mechs, that require tactics, twisting and good situational awareness to succeed.

[zagibu]

Yeah, I don't think the Centurion is dead at all. And since it's a bit too big, the rescale will make it even better.

[Malorish]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2016 - 02:57 PM, said:

CN9 is my second most used chassis.

Only thing "dead" about it is most people's understanding of how to pilot one.

I also find that they, along with HBKs are examples of generally well quirked mechs.

The only change I would see making is upping the engine cap on all models to 300, save of course, the D which already exceeds that (and the YLW which is already there).

I like that Centurions aren't "Piloting for Dummies" Mechs, that require tactics, twisting and good situational awareness to succeed.

I love my CN9-A(C), the original mech I won many years ago. In fact I've spent the last 2-3 days driving it almost exclusively (as I do so often). I just racked up 691 damage and 3 kills in a 3xSRM6 LPL build that I love.

But if I was being honest, in just about every match I would have done significantly better had I been driving several other mediums. I agree that it's a high skillcap mech, and that those should definitely exist in MWO. You'll notice most of the changes I've proposed actually increase the skillcap (making it more asymmetric by moving the missile hard points from LT to RT).

Again, if we're being honest, there's many other mediums that do everything better than the CN9, and it needs a modest amount of help to be updated from the 2012 variant to something that is 2016 meta competitive.

[Bishop Steiner]

Malorish, on 23 May 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

I love my CN9-A(C), the original mech I won many years ago. In fact I've spent the last 2-3 days driving it almost exclusively (as I do so often). I just racked up 691 damage and 3 kills in a 3xSRM6 LPL build that I love.

But if I was being honest, in just about every match I would have done significantly better had I been driving several other mediums. I agree that it's a high skillcap mech, and that those should definitely exist in MWO. You'll notice most of the changes I've proposed actually increase the skillcap (making it more asymmetric by moving the missile hard points from LT to RT).

Again, if we're being honest, there's many other mediums that do everything better than the CN9, and it needs a modest amount of help to be updated from the 2012 variant to something that is 2016 meta competitive.

I am being honest, and I don't see it, except possibly on the AH ad AL.

Perhaps add a little more toughness to the basic A to represent the plain jane trooper mech. But the D is one of the best Mediums exactly as it sits now, and the YLW ain't far behind. And I would say I lose my arm before running out of ammo maybe 1 match in 5. If I'm being honest.

In fact, an 300xl, ac10, 2xSRM4, 2xML CN9-D is one of the best Streakcrow hunters in the game.

As I said, it's my second most run mech. If anything really needed fixing, I'd say I would have a pretty vested interest in it.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 23 May 2016 - 03:11 PM.

[Davegt27]

if you using a Centurion you must like a lot of pain

[AztecD]

Just because some people don't know how to pilots Centurion properly, does not mean that its dead.

Its a fine mech and one of those "killer" mechs in the right hands, so please leave him alone

[Bishop Steiner]

Davegt27, on 23 May 2016 - 03:12 PM, said:

if you using a Centurion you must like a lot of pain

or know how to use one.

I'd say if you find Centurions painful, that's a "you" problem. As they are still one of the toughest, most versatile Mediums in the game.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 23 May 2016 - 03:17 PM.

[TexAce]

Crazy? The AH is probably the best med you can field in scout mode.

[El Bandito]

I prefer the HBK-4SP for brawling but Centurions are solid performers in Scouting mode. There is no point in trying to shoot off Centurions' torsi--legging them is the best way to go.

[Bishop Steiner]

TexAce, on 23 May 2016 - 03:16 PM, said:

Crazy? The AH is probably the best med you can field in scout mode.

My YLW would disagree... but only mildly. (that extra speed is a boon. Hence why I would not cry if CN9s had a global 300 engine cap. But even a 275 is pretty solid)

El Bandito, on 23 May 2016 - 03:16 PM, said:

I prefer the HBK-4SP for brawling but Centurions are solid performers in Scouting mode. There is no point in trying to shoot off Centurions' torsi--legging them is the best way to go.

which is why a good CN9 uses speed and range of that ac10 to do some hurt before facehugging an SP, if it has any say in the matter (which it doesn't always)

[TexAce]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2016 - 03:18 PM, said:

My YLW would disagree... but only mildly. (that extra speed is a boon. Hence why I would not cry if CN9s had a global 300 engine cap. But even a 275 is pretty solid)

I sadly never owned a YLW as I never purchased hero mechs right until last december, where we got so much free MC I bought myself an Ilya so I can't say much about the YLW

[Metus regem]

I've got to agree with Bishop, my LYW is one of my best Clan hunters with twin MPL+AC/20 and a 300XL, only the D is a bit better at hunting the smaller Clan Mechs.... hell I consider the Centurion a required Mech for new pilots, as it really drives home how to torso twist effectively. Also due to the good hit boxes, it's one of the few mechs that can go either Standard or XL for engines and do well. She's not flashy or the new hotness on the block, but what she is, is old Browning M2 of the Mech world, something that hasn't really needed to change since first introduced.

[Malorish]

El Bandito, on 23 May 2016 - 03:16 PM, said:

I prefer the HBK-4SP for brawling but Centurions are solid performers in Scouting mode. There is no point in trying to shoot off Centurions' torsi--legging them is the best way to go.

I was using a variety of CN9 variants and builds when scout mode first came out. I'll be the first to admit it gave the mech a new lease on life.

But ultimately I also gravitated to the HBK-4SP. It's so freaking tanky, and works beautifully with an XL engine. I usually go 2xSRM4 5xMPL myself. It has both the punch against the Stormcrows but also the precision against the lights with the 5xMPLs.

[AztecD]

TexAce, on 23 May 2016 - 03:16 PM, said:

Crazy? The AH is probably the best med you can field in scout mode.

Baby Atlas yea

[Bishop Steiner]

TexAce, on 23 May 2016 - 03:20 PM, said:

I sadly never owned a YLW as I never purchased hero mechs right until last december, where we got so much free MC I bought myself an Ilya so I can't say much about the YLW

I will say that while I like my Ilya (though in the current high alpha environment, it's inability to run an XL has mothballed her) that to this day I consider the YLW to be possibly the best Hero they ever released. It' simple, but maybe that's way it's retained it's efficacy no matter the meta, no matter the quirk shift. It's kind of like the Levi's 501 Blue Jeans of the MWO world...other things are flashier and trendier, but come and go, and when they go, they go the way of butterfly collars and half shirts..... whereas the YLW is just a classic.

In fact, I would say, along with the Ilya and Misery, it's probably in the trifecta of Heroes, as it seems to be largely impervious to metashifts.

[AztecD]

Metus regem, on 23 May 2016 - 03:20 PM, said:

I've got to agree with Bishop, my LYW is one of my best Clan hunters with twin MPL+AC/20 and a 300XL, only the D is a bit better at hunting the smaller Clan Mechs.... hell I consider the Centurion a required Mech for new pilots, as it really drives home how to torso twist effectively. Also due to the good hit boxes, it's one of the few mechs that can go either Standard or XL for engines and do well. She's not flashy or the new hotness on the block, but what she is, is old Browning M2 of the Mech world, something that hasn't really needed to change since first introduced.

It also has a "Shield" arm, so yea it teaches you to torso twist to soak damage with that left arm.

[Adamski]

Perhaps a bit more structure would bring it to an equal footing with the HBK-IIC, same could be applied to the standard IS HBK.

Otherwise, its in a pretty good spot.

[Bishop Steiner]

Malorish, on 23 May 2016 - 03:22 PM, said:

I was using a variety of CN9 variants and builds when scout mode first came out. I'll be the first to admit it gave the mech a new lease on life.

But ultimately I also gravitated to the HBK-4SP. It's so freaking tanky, and works beautifully with an XL engine. I usually go 2xSRM4 5xMPL myself. It has both the punch against the Stormcrows but also the precision against the lights with the 5xMPLs.

I do love XL HBKs... those arms make twisting against PPFLD... questionable, at best. Mind you the SP does it better than most, but I still find those STs so easy to pop. (Btw the 4G is still my absolute favorite mech in game.... but because it doesn't XL well, and it's slower, usually because, it's not a great choice for Scout Mode, IMO).

Mind you, in scout mode the lack of Black Knights, Black Widows, and KDKs, Wubshees etc does make the XL a heck of a lot more viable on them. But normal play? 12 v 12, etc? Well, I consider XL Hunchbacks on the opfor a tasty treat.

[Bishop Steiner]

Adamski, on 23 May 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

Perhaps a bit more structure would bring it to an equal footing with the HBK-IIC, same could be applied to the standard IS HBK.

Otherwise, its in a pretty good spot.

if they wanted to make the Shield arm and actual shield, I wouldn't cry.

I admit, it's been a bit since I ran the A and didn't realize it only had a paltry 4 pt LA structure buff.

Personally, I think they all should have the 16 structure in the LA, if not more, than add a similar armor buff just to the LA.

And the more we talk scouting, I do admit, I wouldn't mind some Leg Structure, since I find almost all scout matches to be boring legfests.

So while I feel the OP to be guilty of "gross hyperbole" calling tthe majestic CN9 "dead", maybe it deserves a little consideration, considering th ecurren tstate of the game.



I guess there's just that part of me that holds out that eventually they will add "skill" aiming (I know they never will) and fix the ridiculous focus fire/alpha issue.