30 replies to this topic

[_____]

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Edited by _____, 07 September 2021 - 11:04 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Curiously, I've still not seen a kdk3 top 1000 damage. Not to say it can't, of course: this is a world where there's 5 or 6 assaults in every match, there's way more damage to be had than usual.

But for all the "easy 1500 damage" posts I've seen, I question how often that really happens.

I get that tiers are pretty random right now (given 5-6 assaults per match, you can be sure there's a big spread) but... why haven't I seen it happening if it's so easy? There's always at least one in the match, often 2 or 3. Still, not once in one of my matches has that happened.

Remember, Direwolves have been able to run the same build too
Sure, it can't ridgehump as well (and I understand how significant that is) but it's not like the firepower is unique to the kdk3.

[MasterBLB]

4xUAC10 Direwhale is just different from Kodiak 3 - it can have a pair of UACs in arms,or have one or more jumpjets,but neither it is as fast as Kodiak,nor as good in over hill peeking game.And that's perfectly fine imo,both mechs have their own advantages.

Edited by MasterBLB, 24 May 2016 - 12:36 AM.

[banana peel]

Strongly disagree with the statement, that the ridiculous output of KDK-3 is primarily the result of drop decks full of faties. Past sunday i had a 1400+ match in a group queue, where the opposite team was not that overweighted.

Three crucial differences between DWF and KDK - super mounts, speed and torso agility. KDK is able to keep up with heavies, quickly take a position and RELEASE THE APOCALYPSE.

As for the high damage - it's all about slow ballistics and bad aiming. Here is an example. I've entered Viridian domination, ran into the circle, hidden my huge booty in a bush and waited. Then DWF came across, spotted our Griffin or smth and began chasing him around, while i was stuffing him generously with my uac10x2, uac5x2. In 15 seconds he was totally naked. I felt sad for a fellow fatie and left him at someone else's mercy, then left the bush, drilled through CT's of two enemy mediums, then droped dead by a shot of some cruel bearhunter. That's it. Less than 1 minute of action, 950 damage. DWF took at least half of it.

All in all, my average KDK-3 damage, i think, is at least about 180% of average in any other mech. And it's actually first time i'm riding an assault. And i dont seek for damage, playing as usual. Is this thing broken? I think, it is. A little bit. As for now huge CT hitbox balances it. Also, as with other dakka, you have to have all the facetime in the world to UNLEASH THE STORM, so in a competitive match... you know, you wont be having that time.

Lighter drop decks wont change much. KDK-3 wont leave the damage leader stand, until it would be prioritized as a target.

Edited by banana peel, 24 May 2016 - 07:32 AM.

[Raso]

I much prefer 2 UAc10s with 2 UAC5s. It's cooler and I can pick my shots at longer range with the UAC5s to poke heads down. The added DPS of the UAC5s, to me at least, feel like they make a difference. 4 C-ERSLs round out the build allowing my to be useful after I've exhausted my ammo.

[The Basilisk]

Averanging over 1000dmg....lol if you go completely selective amnesia maybe and let out the occasions you die within thefirst10 secs of enemy contact or getting ripped into shredds by prowling SRM Jenners from behind with two or three volleys.

Yes I did occasionally do such scores and numbers anddue to the sheer mass ofKodiaks in the Field right now you could get the impression it would be a general thing with the KDK3 butthats not the case.

Sure ignoring it is deadly but its as squishy as all of them. If they get focusedthey instantly die.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

Wintersdark, on 23 May 2016 - 07:47 PM, said:

Curiously, I've still not seen a kdk3 top 1000 damage. Not to say it can't, of course: this is a world where there's 5 or 6 assaults in every match, there's way more damage to be had than usual.

But for all the "easy 1500 damage" posts I've seen, I question how often that really happens.

I get that tiers are pretty random right now (given 5-6 assaults per match, you can be sure there's a big spread) but... why haven't I seen it happening if it's so easy? There's always at least one in the match, often 2 or 3. Still, not once in one of my matches has that happened.

Remember, Direwolves have been able to run the same build too
Sure, it can't ridgehump as well (and I understand how significant that is) but it's not like the firepower is unique to the kdk3.

I've seen them put up 1200 five or six times (twice by Bowser, I kept running into him). And I saw one of my buddies, BD put up 1555 dmg in one the day after the launch. Crazy stuff.

Actually, funnily enough, GMan was talking about this on another thread (about the KDK-3 dmg scores), went out and tried his dakka DWF, and ended up averaging a 1000 dmg over the course of a few drops. Certainly, DWFs can do it too.

It's just easier with the KDK's speed and high mounts.

MasterBLB, on 24 May 2016 - 12:35 AM, said:

4xUAC10 Direwhale is just different from Kodiak 3 - it can have a pair of UACs in arms,or have one or more jumpjets,but neither it is as fast as Kodiak,nor as good in over hill peeking game.And that's perfectly fine imo,both mechs have their own advantages.

I think you're forgetting, the DWF-S can have a JJ, and all 4 UAC/10s in the torsi. They're not as high mounted, yes.

Then again, DWFs almost certainly will run cooler/have more guns, so if you can afford to stay on target (facetime in a DWF, ouch!), DWFs shouldn't have too much issues.

Edited by Keshav Murali, 24 May 2016 - 06:49 AM.

[Raso]

Hey not to be "that guy" but doesn't higher damage numbers mean more wasted shots anyway? Yeah more damage means more money but wouldn't a 1500 damage match mean that it took you all of your ammo to do what you should've done is far, fewer shots?

Spreading damage from bullet spewing DPS hoses FTW! (I guess)

[Wintersdark]

The Basilisk, on 24 May 2016 - 06:47 AM, said:

Averanging over 1000dmg....lol if you go completely selective amnesia maybe and let out the occasions you die within thefirst10 secs of enemy contact or getting ripped into shredds by prowling SRM Jenners from behind with two or three volleys.

Yes I did occasionally do such scores and numbers anddue to the sheer mass ofKodiaks in the Field right now you could get the impression it would be a general thing with the KDK3 butthats not the case.

Sure ignoring it is deadly but its as squishy as all of them. If they get focusedthey instantly die.

This is why I want to see stats. I want someone to show such an "average" result. Im sure the odd player will do it, but an average of ALL your KDK 3 matches? BS. It's a very fragile, huge mech, and for every match where the overworked matchmaker leaves a half dozen idiot assault pilots on the OpFor for you to hack to peices, you'll end up with those terrible pilots on your side too.

There's so much exaggeration going on with this it's not even funny.

Even getting an average damage of around 800 (real average, not BS selective amnesia average) requires both good performances AND really horribly wasteful/inefficient weapons. I can do that in my Mad Dog, because LRM's...

But I question high (actual) averages. I don't have a whole lot of matches in mine because I'm levelling all my KDK's at once, but my experience has definitely shown that:
1) I kill things pretty fast (low damage done to them)
2) Matches are highly random due to matchmaker load, so I've also had my share of really terrible matches

Unicorn matches happen. As I said above, sometimes the stars align and you can get huge scores because while you where bad (spreading damage like a mofo) the other team was even worse, and your allies where all ALSO bad.

[banana peel]

The Basilisk, on 24 May 2016 - 06:47 AM, said:

Averanging over 1000dmg....lol if you go completely selective amnesia maybe and let out the occasions you die within thefirst10 secs of enemy contact or getting ripped into shredds by prowling SRM Jenners from behind with two or three volleys.

I suggest you go to the leaderboard and check out top30. They are over 4k score - averaging 400 points in one of top-ten matches. If you look at the formula, 400 means something like 3 solos, 6 kmd, 5 kills 5 assists and 1,1k damage - for example.
Every time i encountered a person from top ten of KDK-3 leaderboard, he/she ended up with at least close to 1k damage, usually over 1,2k.
Also compare the average score in the KDK-3 leaderboard with the average score in other variants.

[Wintersdark]

banana peel, on 24 May 2016 - 08:10 AM, said:

I suggest you go to the leaderboard and check out top30. They are over 4k score - averaging 400 points in one of top-ten matches. If you look at the formula, 400 means something like 3 solos, 6 kmd, 5 kills 5 assists and 1,1k damage - for example.
Every time i encountered a person from top ten of KDK-3 leaderboard, he/she ended up with at least close to 1k damage, usually over 1,2k.
Also compare the average score in the KDK-3 leaderboard with the average score in other variants.

the leaderboards don't show your average score. They show the average of your ten highest scoring matches.

You win at leaderboard events by being reasonably good at the game, and having lots of matches to get Unicorn Matches. These are the matches where there are lots of large mechs on the OpFor AND your team is bad, but not quite as bad as the other team (so allies don't get all the damage.

Leaderboards show people do get high scores, but it doesn't speak to average scores at all.

[banana peel]

Wintersdark, on 24 May 2016 - 08:31 AM, said:

the leaderboards don't show your average score. They show the average of your ten highest scoring matches.

You win at leaderboard events by being reasonably good at the game, and having lots of matches to get Unicorn Matches. These are the matches where there are lots of large mechs on the OpFor AND your team is bad, but not quite as bad as the other team (so allies don't get all the damage.

Leaderboards show people do get high scores, but it doesn't speak to average scores at all.

That is true, they count top ten matches, but man, a "unicorn" match? Dont go that far with expressions) I repeat, EVERY matchscore of top player was huge, and i checked them everytime, while playing the KDK-3 or another variant myself. I only mention leaderboard, because you can compare the outcome with the outcome from another variants of KDK. And you can approximately evaluate the average damage, that has been done in a 450-score match. It is fairly beyond 1k. So yes, those guys were hunting the unicorn matches - matches with 1.6k+ damage. 1k-damage match from a good player was REGULAR in a pug queue.

If it is not enough, i can only refer to my own experience. My average damage was at least 750. And me, crazy noob-bear, is no pro by all means)

Edited by banana peel, 24 May 2016 - 10:19 AM.

[Wintersdark]

banana peel, on 24 May 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

If it is not enough, i can only refer to my own experience. My average damage was at least 750. And me, crazy noob-bear, is no pro by all means)

Really? Lets see.

This has MadStats, the Chrome browser plugin to calculate average damage per match automatically, but it's easy enough to do by dividing total damage with matches played:



I'm interested in seeing what people's actual average damage is with it. Not their random statements (because my experience has been people tend to overstate actual average damage massively because of highly selective bias in memory.

Now to be fair, mine have no pilot skills yet (I never buy any till I can master, just a habit of mine) so it'll go up after that and with experience, as I've only got ~10 matches per variant so far.

But still, I'd like to see people's actual averages with screenshots.


Edit: Chrome plugin here: http://mwomercs.com/...-stats-sorting/

Edited by Wintersdark, 24 May 2016 - 10:38 AM.

[Wintersdark]

banana peel, on 24 May 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

That is true, they count top ten matches, but man, a "unicorn" match? Dont go that far with expressions)

And that term was taken directly from previous leaderboard winners discussing how they go about it. That it's wholly a matter of seeking the "Unicorn match". You need to be good to get/exploit those matches, of course, it's not a matter of luck winning. But you win at leaderboards by getting 10 really ridiculous results, and those results require a silly situation where your team fails, but you still pull off a win - because otherwise, there's not enough damage to be done. If you've got a couple good players on your team, you simply won't be able to do well enough on your own.

Good luck hording scores like that with a couple strong players on your team.

Edited by Wintersdark, 24 May 2016 - 10:44 AM.

[MasterBLB]

Keshav Murali, on 24 May 2016 - 06:51 AM, said:

I think you're forgetting, the DWF-S can have a JJ, and all 4 UAC/10s in the torsi.

I am not,I intentionally mentioned Direwolf's ability to equip one pair of UAC10s in arms,While driving my Kodiak 3 there were situations I couldn't aim my ballistics at opponent at higher/lower ground.A Dire could do at least half of its armament.

Besides,you guys overrate 4xUAC10 KDK.It is indeed excellent mech,very deadly,but so is Direwolf,which can take even more UACs.And we have the whale in game pretty long right now,yet I didn't seen they absolutely dominated matches.
And same will be with Kodiaks.Once folks will master their bears they will naturally get bored with them,start to play other mechs,and meta will go back to balance.

[banana peel]

Wintersdark, on 24 May 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

And that term was taken directly from previous leaderboard winners discussing how they go about it. That it's wholly a matter of seeking the "Unicorn match". You need to be good to get/exploit those matches, of course, it's not a matter of luck winning. But you win at leaderboards by getting 10 really ridiculous results, and those results require a silly situation where your team fails, but you still pull off a win - because otherwise, there's not enough damage to be done. If you've got a couple good players on your team, you simply won't be able to do well enough on your own.

Good luck hording scores like that with a couple strong players on your team.

Again, dear friend, all you are saying is true, but it's like you are not even reading a post to the end. Don't really know, how to respond) My statement is: for a skilled player, who was grinding "unicorn" matches, a 1k-damage match was a REGULAR one. And then i wrote smth to support it. No response to that.

As for your previous post, i'm not a big fan of proving anything in the internet and at forums - especially. To much waste of a time for a useless - in most of times - result. Also i think that it's not fair from your side to start with an assumption, that i tend to overstate my results or that my memory fails me... however i do feel old sometimes at my 28(
But i agree, it is interesting to see top players' results and - more importantly - its comparison with results on their other mechs.
Anyway, here are my KDK variants results (tier 3, if it matters):


That 47 games include one 0-match due to the internet failure and about 7-8 matches of crazy moves, because that's how i roll. Also because i was tired of simular excellent, yet not "unicorn" results)

[_____]

Wintersdark, on 24 May 2016 - 08:07 AM, said:

This is why I want to see stats. I want someone to show such an "average" result.

Well as a competent but not amazing player I'm averaging 803 dmg per game in the KDK-3 (37,742 dmg over 47 matches). Many of those first several games was just experimenting with various non-quad UAC10 builds, because before the KDK even was released people have already theorized this build and I wanted to try something else. Then I later figured that this was probably going to be the best build during the first couple of weeks for leveling purposes, so I stuck with that. The next several matches were just learning how to position myself with the KDK and fire the 10s because I don't really use the UAC10s all that often. So even with all that experimentation, and not being an elite-level player, still managing 800 dmg a game is kind of ridiculous. By Sunday or so, the only thing that kept me from 1k games were other KDK-3s farming damage in the same match lol.

Raso, on 24 May 2016 - 07:16 AM, said:

Hey not to be "that guy" but doesn't higher damage numbers mean more wasted shots anyway? Yeah more damage means more money but wouldn't a 1500 damage match mean that it took you all of your ammo to do what you should've done is far, fewer shots? Spreading damage from bullet spewing DPS hoses FTW! (I guess)

Of course. That's kind of the nature of cUAC builds though. Especially the 10s since they're kinda inaccurate and the "duration" is long. I'm just saying this weekend or these first 2 weeks after the KDK release is just more or less EZ damage farming than a true demo of where the KDK-3 really fits in the normal solo queue meta.

[Barkem Squirrel]

Figure at one point nearly half the people were running the bears. Now maybe 2 to 6 per match. Then the others are bear hunting. The oxides, jenner IICs and huggins are just raising bloody hell with the bears and other assaults.

Me I was running mediums and a jagermech for my hunting. Even though I was having many 800 to 1300 damage matches over the weekend it was due to just nailing bears again and again and again and why will it not die yet. Then the jenners and huggin, someone needed to run something to protect the bears.

With so many assaults everyone's damage should be up, due to there being simply more armor to damage. It will run it's course and the 1000+ damage matches will lessen. The Kodiak 3 will become a focused mech when ever it appears, just like direwolves.

The Kodiak 3 is a dangerous mech and defiantly made a huge impression on players over the weekend.

I guess the saying now will be do not shut down by over heating infront of direwolves or kodiaks.

[banana peel]

Also i want to add my two cents to the "DWF vs KDK" talking. You maximize armour on both mechs (without jj), give KDK 300 xl, 5 dhs and standard structure, and you will get... 50.31 free tonns on each. 40 slots on DWF, 37 on KDK (3 actuators). While DWF has a hardpoint flexibility, KDK can cary bigger engine, can sacrifice slots for tonnage, can spread damage better and has great quirks on top of that. For me it's safe to say, that KDK is better for most of the time.

[Raso]

banana peel, on 24 May 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

Also i want to add my two cents to the "DWF vs KDK" talking. You maximize armour on both mechs (without jj), give KDK 300 xl, 5 dhs and standard structure, and you will get... 50.31 free tonns on each. 40 slots on DWF, 37 on KDK (3 actuators). While DWF has a hardpoint flexibility, KDK can cary bigger engine, can sacrifice slots for tonnage, can spread damage better and has great quirks on top of that. For me it's safe to say, that KDK is better for most of the time.

I also believe the KDK-3's agility is a godsend. Even with a down graded engine in mine it feels very agile. I think that the speed is more than makes up for the lack of JJs on the KDK (or at least it fits into my play style just fine).

banana peel, on 24 May 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

Also i want to add my two cents to the "DWF vs KDK" talking. You maximize armour on both mechs (without jj), give KDK 300 xl, 5 dhs and standard structure, and you will get... 50.31 free tonns on each. 40 slots on DWF, 37 on KDK (3 actuators). While DWF has a hardpoint flexibility, KDK can cary bigger engine, can sacrifice slots for tonnage, can spread damage better and has great quirks on top of that. For me it's safe to say, that KDK is better for most of the time.

I also believe the KDK-3's agility is a godsend. Even with a down graded engine in mine it feels very agile. I think that the speed is more than makes up for the lack of JJs on the KDK (or at least it fits into my play style just fine).