21 replies to this topic

[Iqfish]

Hello folks,

recently working on some 3D stuff, I was wondering how an Autocannon shell would look like.

As far as I understood, Autocannons in BT are always burst-fire weapons, similar how Clan ACs work in MWO right now.
IS-ACs however are single shot weapons in MWO. Since my Rendering will be MWO-Themed, I want to follow that rule.

Could an AC/2 shell in MWO look like this? I don't want to use the ingame model, since it is pretty ugly.


The fins extend after the shell has left the barrel.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

i dont think the casing exits with the bullet, so i dont think those fins or the case should be represented in flight.

[Iqfish]

Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, on 28 May 2016 - 06:44 AM, said:

i dont think the casing exits with the bullet, so i dont think those fins or the case should be represented in flight.

That's not the casing, I was kind of combining
This:


and this:

Edited by Iqfish, 28 May 2016 - 07:19 AM.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Iqfish, on 28 May 2016 - 07:05 AM, said:

That's not the casing, I was kind of combining
This:

and this:

For some reason, the posted image is not displaying for me. Sorry

[Karl Streiger]

Well there should be Gyrocs for ACs and a fin alone wouldn't grant limited guidance.

Anyhow rocket addisted grenades - of course its possible for example when you use an overproportional barrel - say a short barrel Ac2 - to grant full range without using to much proppelant.

Anyhow i think most AC bullets would be classical APHE.
Well cause afaik no classical designation for ac ammunition exist (considering the real range of BT weapons (several Klicks for AC2) you might use what ever you like

[Iqfish]

Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, on 28 May 2016 - 07:12 AM, said:

For some reason, the posted image is not displaying for me. Sorry

Fixed it. How about this?

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

http://battletech.rp...lected_eqid=197

The round pictured probably best describes Precision autocannon Ammo (PR), which produces in 3062.

[Nebfer]

Well aside from the very odd copper jacketed nose (out side of infantry small arms no one uses that configuration), it would work well enough with Guided (Precision) Autoccannon rounds, Which is a derivative of guided gyrojet rounds.

No one knows what a B-tech Autocannon shell really is or looks like, the Descriptions notes it's a form of HEAP (High Explosive Armor Piercing), and the Novels often mention a DU tip or component.

As such I generally get the impression that "standard" ammo for B-tech autocannons is likely something like
HEIAP (High Explosive Incendiary Armor Piercing) -replace the carbide core with DU...
the F-35 is slated to use 25mm "APEX" ammo which is very similar to the HEIAP, as it's primary round

http://www.f-16.net/...cfc88&mode=view

[Hit the Deck]

Iqfish, on 28 May 2016 - 07:05 AM, said:

That's not the casing, I was kind of combining
...

You need to smooth out the transition from the green to the copper area if you want it to look like a fin stabilized rocket instead of a bullet with a finned casing.

[Mazzyplz]

i don't think autocannon should have fins. missiles have fins.
shells look just like bullets but bigger.

a shell from an autocannon in battletech should look IMO like the shells of an anti aircraft cannon from the 20th century.
an ac20 would be a bigger tank shell.

[TechChris]

That's no UAC shell......it doesn't look like guided insta coring uber death at all!!!! OH! its an IS shell.....ok. Well then its WAY too big. IS shells are only supposed to tickle!


Sorry......all the forums filled with people #####ing about the GlassBear has been my whiny MWO soap opera read for too long now!!!

Anyhow......I like it! The actual bullet looks well done and I like the green casing. Its like its a softish, almost peel away casing (albeit an actual peel away would be a bit detrimental, what with the fins right behind it to damage/catch on) to make sure its snug and good in the bore without damaging the weapon, even if the bullet is made of some really ridiculously hard future alloy. My only gripe with your model is I see no way that the fins collapse on it to actually fit them as well????

Several other good bits in this thread already as well........it's just that this is a game set in the 3000's......not sure how much we have to base it on known current tech, rather then what ya think would look good/cool/possibly function in future?

Edited by TechChris, 02 June 2016 - 05:07 PM.

[VinJade]

I am kind of wondering about the ACs, some are said to fire off a stream of shells while others are said to be solid shell impact.

Personally I tend to go for the solid shell rounds whenever I write the fluff for mech designs I do but I am wondering how they could have two different munitions for the same class of weapon(std ACs not UACs or LBX).

maybe someone who is much more knowledgeable with rifles & cannons could shed some light on it?

Edited by VinJade, 04 June 2016 - 01:51 AM.

[RedDragon]

Well there are depictions of the shells in the source books, but naturally that is only how the authors/game designers think they look like and they may not have too much knowledge on actual military technology ...

VinJade, on 04 June 2016 - 01:50 AM, said:

I am kind of wondering about the ACs, some are said to fire off a stream of shells while others are said to be solid shell impact.

Personally I tend to go for the solid shell rounds whenever I write the fluff for mech designs I do but I am wondering how they could have two different munitions for the same class of weapon(std ACs not UACs or LBX).

maybe someone who is much more knowledgeable with rifles & cannons could shed some light on it?

I am not really sure what you mean by "stream" ... if you think that stream means non-solid rounds, something like plasma - no, that is not meant. ACs always fire a stream of solid rounds, just like modern MGs, but they fire explosive shells, not inert bullets.

Just for the record, since there's always someone who mentions that there are also single-shot ACs: No, there are not. I have never seen any written source on this, there's only some fluff on Sarna.net stating that the 205mm gun of the Couldron Born is single-shot, but they don't provide a source.
Every single time ACs in BT are mentioned, it is stated that they fire in bursts.

[Karl Streiger]

In Wolf Pack (German Wolfsrudel)- the Bodyguard of Jaime (don't know the name) got hit by a single 200mm round. Afterwards the Victor explodes.
Of course it could be translation mistake

[RedDragon]

Well, we'd need the actual text (best in English) to judge that, maybe it was single shell from the burst, or an error in translation as you said. But even if it is explicitly one shell, I'd rather read that under artistic freedom, because we know how liberal authors tend to be when it comes to such things (Gauss slug the size of a trashcan for example)

[VinJade]

I have seen in some novels that they described a stream of shells stitching a line of damage up a leg, torso, arm, ect.
while in others they only talked about a single round of Solid UR shell damaging a limb or torso.

[Danghen Woolf]

I always picture the lighter ACs similar to this:

https://en.m.wikiped...M242_Bushmaster

Heavier ACs would probably be more in line with:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-explosive_squash_head

All of that changes with the additional ammunition types for the IS standard ACs though...

[Nebfer]

RedDragon, on 04 June 2016 - 03:31 AM, said:

Well, we'd need the actual text (best in English) to judge that, maybe it was single shell from the burst, or an error in translation as you said. But even if it is explicitly one shell, I'd rather read that under artistic freedom, because we know how liberal authors tend to be when it comes to such things (Gauss slug the size of a trashcan for example)

This is the quote Wolf pack ch 52

Quote

The surprise attack of the Elementals gave my battlegroup a chance to collect our wits. Seeing the Elementals throw the Betas into such confusion gave us enough hope that we rallied. When we saw that the armored troopers had exhausted their missiles, we charged. We pushed hard, but not hard enough to knock Beta out of the fight.
I saw Hans Vordel's Victor take a hit from a 200-millimeter autocannon in the midst of a punishing salvo of missiles. The eighty-ton 'Mech shivered under the impact, then froze. I thought the old beast had only shut down from overheat and shifted my Loki in its direction, hoping to provide cover so the enemy wouldn't rip it apart before the pilot could restart the fusion reactor. I hadn't covered fifty meters before the Victor shuddered again. The oscillations increased with frightening speed, and then the 'Mech's right arm disintegrated in a shower of shrapnel. The machine toppled backward, twisting to fall on its left side. Even amid the roar of combat, I heard the thunder of its fall. Searing beams reached for the fallen 'Mech, ravening over its surface and boring into the gaps in its armor. It blew apart as one of those beams found its ammunition bay and the remaining missiles detonated in a storm of fire. I throttled back. There was nothing I could do for the fallen warrior. I sent one of his killers a beam from the seven-centimeter laser in the Loki's right arm and retreated. Warriors in my battlegroup were still fighting and they needed me more than did the dead man.

It took a hit by a 200mm AC (most likely a class 20), at the same time as a large salvo of missiles, within a few seconds the Right Arm disintegrated, likely due to the Gauss rifle going off (the Victor is described as having a Gauss rifle in other parts), as the mech fell laser shots impacted the unit, cooking off the missiles.

Edited by Nebfer, 11 July 2016 - 07:57 PM.

[RedDragon]

Nebfer, on 11 July 2016 - 07:55 PM, said:

This is the quote Wolf pack ch 52


It took a hit by a 200mm AC (most likely a class 20), at the same time as a large salvo of missiles, within a few seconds the Right Arm disintegrated, likely due to the Gauss rifle going off (the Victor is described as having a Gauss rifle in other parts), as the mech fell laser shots impacted the unit, cooking off the missiles.

Thank you. As expected there is nothing in the text that suggests a single-shell autocannon. "A hit" could mean any number of shells. I stand by my claim that there's not a single evidence for non-burst ACs in lore, until proven otherwise

[Karl Streiger]

picture of Koshei and Barghest