162 replies to this topic

[topgun505]

Just for giggles I'd like to see what happens if all quirks to the Oxide were dropped and all the other IS Jenners got these quirks in its place.

Edited by topgun505, 30 May 2016 - 02:41 PM.

[Moldur]

TercieI, on 30 May 2016 - 02:27 PM, said:

No. Whatever you think about the Oxide's power level, its prevalence is not new this weekend.

Ok. It's been around in its current form for awhile now. Why is there a shitstorm about it only in the last week or so?

[Xetelian]

I do not own an Oxide
I do not plan to buy the Oxide
I am not a blatant liar


Oxide is NOT OP.

35 Armor in the CT, that is ONE alpha from a heavy/assault and even some mediums.

64 Armor between two legs, that is ONE alpha from some heavy/assault and two alphas for some medium/heavy


If you can't kill a light mech you need to aim, anticipate where they are moving too and fire ahead of them.

My DWF drops Dual Gauss into the CT and it is left with ~5 armor if I hit it in the back while it is running away its instant death.


You can kill them just as easily as any other light mech


The light queue is 10% the Heavy queue is 40%-50% all the time so there are 4-5 heavies and 1-3 lights, which one is the OP mech weight? Which one is the most preferred?

There are FS9s and ACHs and Oxides oh my! but none of them bring that queue up.


Just because it can core your back out in a few hits doesn't mean it is OP.

Tips for fighting a light

Innersphere? Aim for their side torso or legs
Clan? Aim for their legs

Back up and spin at the same time to bring them into your fire arc

Stick together so they have multiple alphas tearing their legs off, don't give them an opportunity to take you out solo.

[Trauglodyte]

Welp! That solves it. A tier 3 has just put this argument to rest. I'm glad that any problem with killing any specific mech, especially a Light mech, is all due to the fact that people haven't learned how to aim in 4 years. I think that I'll sleep better tonight.

[TercieI]

Moldur, on 30 May 2016 - 02:41 PM, said:

Ok. It's been around in its current form for awhile now. Why is there a shitstorm about it only in the last week or so?

Phase of the moon? Man, I dunno, the whining on these forums comes in strange and usually out of date ways.

[Xetelian]

Trauglodyte, on 30 May 2016 - 03:01 PM, said:

Welp! That solves it. A tier 3 has just put this argument to rest. I'm glad that any problem with killing any specific mech, especially a Light mech, is all due to the fact that people haven't learned how to aim in 4 years. I think that I'll sleep better tonight.

I am Tier 3

I play with and against Tier 1 2 4 and 5

I get to experience the entire spectrum of the metas, laser vomit TBRs and LRM boats

Does that make me more qualified to spot what mechs are doing the most hurt or less?

I'm edging closer to tier 2 all the time does that invalidate my opinions or support them?


Logical fallacy is illogical

If I can handle Oxides from Tiers 1 2 and 3 why can't you?

Edited by Xetelian, 30 May 2016 - 03:10 PM.

[MadcatX]

Moldur, on 30 May 2016 - 02:41 PM, said:

Ok. It's been around in its current form for awhile now. Why is there a shitstorm about it only in the last week or so?

More of 'em buzzing around since folks bought them for half off I figure. Combine that the latest new toy on the battlefield is an assault and yea, I can see why people are complaining now.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

you need to get within 300m to do anything. Not OP at all. If they are getting behind you, that's all the victims fault.

topgun505, on 30 May 2016 - 02:40 PM, said:

Just for giggles I'd like to see what happens if all quirks to the Oxide were dropped and all the other IS Jenners got these quirks in its place.

Other Jenners need some Love with Oxide staying the same. The F is a joke. I use my founders Jenner as a NARC platform and it works well.

Edited by GAGONMYlOCK, 30 May 2016 - 03:13 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

Trauglodyte, on 30 May 2016 - 01:18 PM, said:

I get what you're saying. I'm simply indicating that the WHY back when doesn't really support it now because the situation that you're describing is what all of us non-JJ Light mechs experience. The only difference is that the Jenner Oxide is the only non-Clan 40 ton and under mech that can bring 4x SRM4s to bear on a single target. So, why does the Oxide get the best weapon suite AND the best quirks:

Locust: +16 structure on all chassis; this was needed because the poor ******* gets shorted thanks to TT rules
Commando: +12 on the 1B, 3A, and DK; +15 on the 1D and 2D
Spider: +5 on the 5D; +10 on the Anansi, 5K, and 5V
Urbie: +5 on the R60L and R63; +10 on the R60
Firestarter: no quirks
Jenner: no quirks on the D, F, or K; +16 on the Oxide plus other structure quirks
Panther: +10 on all
Raven: +4 on the 2X, +8 on the 3L and 4X, and +12 on the Huggin
Wolfhound: +4 on the 1A; +8 on the 1, 1B, and 2
Cicada: +10 on the 2A, 2B, 3C, and X-5; +15 on the 3F and 3M

So, the Oxide has better structure quirks than every other mech listed, minus the Cicada 3M and 3F. Yet, it is the strongest out of all of the Lights.

I don't want the Oxide to get hammered into oblivion but there isn't any need to have that much additional internal armoring while carrying the best weapons load in the game. Hell, the Oxide is better than 4x Medium Laser, 2x SRM Jenner/Cicada X-5 by a long distance and none of those have the durability of the Oxide.

This is probably more of a legacy quirk error than anything but it definitely needs to be looked at because something isn't right. And, this is coming from someone that doesn't ever get eaten by said mech. I just see what it can do and know that, if quirks, armor, weapons, etc. were all given point values, the Oxide would crush every Light mech in the game.



4x Mediums and 2x SRM-4s is beastly. I still don't know why people don't stay with that. It is heat friendly, range friendly-ish, and way more potent than just 6x Mediums. I love my Oxide and its 75% backwards top speed of 105 kph /flex

If memory serves teh first round of quirks was +4 to the legs for lack of JJ's and I an many others complained till hell froze over that was not enough for the then pitiful OXIDE. You are correct, there are other mechs that need those buffs as well.

The Jenner D with 4 SPL's and 2 SRM 4's can give an OXIDE a run for its money. The achilles heel of the Oxide is it HAS to be within 75 meters to concentrate its spread. Anything greater than that and the spread is to much. Especially on a light that is moving quickly as well.

TercieI, on 30 May 2016 - 01:33 PM, said:

I LOVED the 4MPL build in the first round of quirks when it was highly quirked for them and the FS9-S had dumb ERLL quirks.

Aye, the 4 MPL build was powerful in the initial quirkning. Then they re-quirked it and every other Jenner into uselessness.

GAGONMYlOCK, on 30 May 2016 - 03:13 PM, said:

you need to get within 300m to do anything. Not OP at all. If they are getting behind you, that's all the victims fault.



Other Jenners need some Love with Oxide staying the same. The F is a joke. I use my founders Jenner as a NARC platform and it works well.

For the Oxide to be at its best it needs to be less than 75 meters. Anything greater and the spread hurts. Even at point blank range my missiles will miss assault legs.

[Mystere]

Moldur, on 30 May 2016 - 02:41 PM, said:

Ok. It's been around in its current form for awhile now. Why is there a shitstorm about it only in the last week or so?

Because someone's bought-with-money new Mech was killed by someone else's bought-with-money Mech?

Edited by Mystere, 30 May 2016 - 03:55 PM.

[Mystere]

Trauglodyte, on 30 May 2016 - 03:01 PM, said:

Welp! That solves it. A tier 3 has just put this argument to rest. I'm glad that any problem with killing any specific mech, especially a Light mech, is all due to the fact that people haven't learned how to aim in 4 years. I think that I'll sleep better tonight.

Oooohhhh! A T2 is being sarcastic toward a T3. Can a T1 please step in and put the T2 in his proper place?

Edited by Mystere, 30 May 2016 - 03:59 PM.

[MadHornet]

Oxide is not "OP"

Situationally it can be a handful, but it relies WAY too much on people not paying attention. I one shot two Oxides in a match with an Adder. One because the guy was too busy expecting no one to see him shooting our teammate. BAM, 41 damage to the rear. Second one thought I wouldn't turn around in time to see them hitting me in the back repeatedly. Full burn on the CT, dead. The Oxide has the highest face time requirement of any light I've seen.

Edited by MadHornet, 30 May 2016 - 04:12 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

Mystere, on 30 May 2016 - 03:58 PM, said:

Oooohhhh! A T2 is being sarcastic toward a T3. Can a T1 please step in and put the T2 in his proper place?

Trauglodyte, on 30 May 2016 - 03:01 PM, said:

Welp! That solves it. A tier 3 has just put this argument to rest. I'm glad that any problem with killing any specific mech, especially a Light mech, is all due to the fact that people haven't learned how to aim in 4 years. I think that I'll sleep better tonight.

You would be very SURPRISED how many people in your Tier can not aim!. Or mine for that matter. Aim is a problem.


Happy Mystere?

[Gyrok]

Moldur, on 30 May 2016 - 02:41 PM, said:

Ok. It's been around in its current form for awhile now. Why is there a shitstorm about it only in the last week or so?

Search the forums, these threads have popped up frequently for literally, the last 3 months or longer.

Xetelian, on 30 May 2016 - 02:52 PM, said:

I do not own an Oxide
I do not plan to buy the Oxide
I am not a blatant liar


Oxide is NOT OP.

35 Armor in the CT, that is ONE alpha from a heavy/assault and even some mediums.

64 Armor between two legs, that is ONE alpha from some heavy/assault and two alphas for some medium/heavy


If you can't kill a light mech you need to aim, anticipate where they are moving too and fire ahead of them.

My DWF drops Dual Gauss into the CT and it is left with ~5 armor if I hit it in the back while it is running away its instant death.


You can kill them just as easily as any other light mech


The light queue is 10% the Heavy queue is 40%-50% all the time so there are 4-5 heavies and 1-3 lights, which one is the OP mech weight? Which one is the most preferred?

There are FS9s and ACHs and Oxides oh my! but none of them bring that queue up.


Just because it can core your back out in a few hits doesn't mean it is OP.

Tips for fighting a light

Innersphere? Aim for their side torso or legs
Clan? Aim for their legs

Back up and spin at the same time to bring them into your fire arc

Stick together so they have multiple alphas tearing their legs off, don't give them an opportunity to take you out solo.

Considering the oxide is THE light mech played in comp for about 80-90% of the possible light mech drops, it is OP.

Edited by Gyrok, 30 May 2016 - 04:43 PM.

[Mystere]

Darian DelFord, on 30 May 2016 - 04:29 PM, said:

You would be very SURPRISED how many people in your Tier can not aim!. Or mine for that matter. Aim is a problem.

Happy Mystere?

My tier? I think you mean Level 6. Unfortunately, Level 6 is just a myth, this surveillance shot notwithstanding:

[Darian DelFord]

Mystere, on 30 May 2016 - 05:32 PM, said:

My tier? I think you mean Level 6. Unfortunately, Level 6 is just a myth, this surveillance shot notwithstanding:

Mums the word

Gyrok, on 30 May 2016 - 04:42 PM, said:

Search the forums, these threads have popped up frequently for literally, the last 3 months or longer.



Considering the oxide is THE light mech played in comp for about 80-90% of the possible light mech drops, it is OP.

Was wondering when you were going to slither in here.

Unfortunately you are correct on your first point

Unfortunately you are stretching the truth on your second one. As has already been discussed in previous threads. When you start talking about COMP play and drops, you have to look at the RULE SETS for those comp drops. As you are very well aware of and has been proven to you. Yes Oxides are prevalent in the first drop. However in the 2 and beyond drops they ALL BUT DISAPPEAR. The later drops are a better basis for any assumptions of any mechs OP'ness. As such since OXIDES are not prevalent in those drops it is NOT OP. (By Your Logic)

Why is this you ask, they are not as OP as you make them out to be, as they get slaughtered with the heavier chassis.

So yet again you are attempting to sell a certain point of view without showing the WHOLE truth.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 30 May 2016 - 05:51 PM.

[Vxheous]

Take a look at the other Jenners (not IIcs, the IS Jenners), do you see any structure quirks there? No? Then why does the Oxide have structure quirks AND weapon quirks? Oxides have been OP for awhile, that is why comp teams have been using their duplicate clone slot on either the Oxide or the Jenner IIc so they could bring 3 SRM Jenner combo in drops that call for 4 lights. That being said, the nerfbat is probably coming soon since PGI just put out the Hero sale.

Darian DelFord, on 30 May 2016 - 05:33 PM, said:

Mums the word













Was wondering when you were going to slither in here.

Unfortunately you are correct on your first point

Unfortunately you are stretching the truth on your second one. As has already been discussed in previous threads. When you start talking about COMP play and drops, you have to look at the RULE SETS for those comp drops. As you are very well aware of and has been proven to you. Yes Oxides are prevalent in the first drop. However in the 2 and beyond drops they ALL BUT DISAPPEAR. The later drops are a better basis for any assumptions of any mechs OP'ness. As such since OXIDES are not prevalent in those drops it is NOT OP.

Why is this you ask, they are not as OP as you make them out to be, as they get slaughtered with the heavier chassis.

So yet again you are attempting to sell a certain point of view without showing the WHOLE truth.

Oxides show up in all the other drops that have lights as well, usually based on what the map is (I am assuming you are speaking of MRBC ruleset). For instance, if the map was Canyon Network, you might see a Jenner IIc/Arctic Cheetah combo due to the potential need for jumpjets. If you ended up on Frozen City however, you often saw Oxide/Jenner IIc combo (later drops have teams usually use duplicates on Heavies or assaults). Even drop 2 MRBC, you would often see Oxide/Jenner IIc combo for double SRM light mech spam.

The MRBC team that I was part of won NA Division C and we ran almost 90% Oxide/Jenner IIc combos when it called for 2 lights, and 2 Oxide/Jenner IIc/Arctic cheetah or Oxide/2 Jenner IIc/Arctic cheetah on drop 1. Also look at NS team 1, who also won NA Division B, they also ran 2 Oxide/Jenner IIc/Arctic cheetah drop 1s, and often Oxide/Jenner IIc when 2 lights were required (drop 2/4/5). Finally, SJR won NA Division A, and they also ran 2 Oxide/Jenner IIc/Arctic cheetah on drop 1, and often one of either Oxide/Jenner IIc + another light.

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 30 May 2016 - 06:00 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 30 May 2016 - 05:50 PM, said:

Take a look at the other Jenners (not IIcs, the IS Jenners), do you see any structure quirks there? No? Then why does the Oxide have structure quirks AND weapon quirks? Oxides have been OP for awhile, that is why comp teams have been using their duplicate clone slot on either the Oxide or the Jenner IIc so they could bring 3 SRM Jenner combo in drops that call for 4 lights. That being said, the nerfbat is probably coming soon since PGI just put out the Hero sale.

And by that logic how many COMP teams use their duplicate mech as an OXIDE past drop 2?

[Trauglodyte]

Quote

If memory serves teh first round of quirks was +4 to the legs for lack of JJ's and I an many others complained till hell froze over that was not enough for the then pitiful OXIDE. You are correct, there are other mechs that need those buffs as well.

Like I said, legacy issues. PGI needs to sit down and do a massive revamp of everything. I'm hoping that they do it with sincerity and clarity of mind with the June patch.

Mystere, on 30 May 2016 - 03:58 PM, said:

Oooohhhh! A T2 is being sarcastic toward a T3. Can a T1 please step in and put the T2 in his proper place?

Oh Mystere! Don't be THAT guy after I was THAT guy. But, at least I can feel appreciated due to your need to imitate me.

kidding!

Darian DelFord, on 30 May 2016 - 04:29 PM, said:

You would be very SURPRISED how many people in your Tier can not aim!. Or mine for that matter. Aim is a problem.

Honestly? I really wouldn't. I've seen some real hum dingers. I am, by no means, awesome. And I do, at times, get that whole "Is it his left or my left?" thing. The truth is, if you're not in one of the top groups, you've still got a lot to learn and accomplish, if you ever will. I take every game as a learning opportunity. My only problem is when people look at it like losing or playing stupidly doesn't matter.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 30 May 2016 - 06:04 PM.

[Vxheous]

Darian DelFord, on 30 May 2016 - 05:53 PM, said:

And by that logic how many COMP teams use their duplicate mech as an OXIDE past drop 2?

duplicates are used on heavies/assaults past drop 2, because you can still run a Oxide/Jenner IIc combo. What comp team did you play for again? Go look through the end of game screenshots of MRBC if you don't believe me, but Oxides had a heavy heavy presence in the light slot.

After our comp practices, we even took our 8 man comp team into group queue and trolled with 6 Oxide/Jenner IIcs + 2 assaults (to get into minimum tonnage) and rolled most games 12-0 - 12-3 for the lulz

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 30 May 2016 - 06:13 PM.