83 replies to this topic

[MechWarrior319348]

So I'm remembering the old days where there were snipers who followed the code of "separate from team and be sneaky."

You dont see that very much these days, as people are determined to stick together as a group; which has it's benefits. A Blob is quite powerful mind you.

But recently I've been experimenting with full R tard mode, by separating and going around the rim of the map to get at the enemy

Occasionally there are people who say. "where are you going,?" "what the hell are you thinking?"

And I tell them I'm looking for a good sneaky firing position of which to shoot backs with.

Then people will say that the range is too far to be effective..... and so I tell them about my insane range quirks and blabla.... (i won't tell you what mech i use)

So is going Lone Wolf out of style these days?

[Wintersdark]

It is, because in the majority of cases it results in someone dying uselessly. More often than not (by a large margin) it's just less effective.

It's not too bad if you're in a light (or light medium, such as a Shadowcat) where you can reposition and not just be light food.

[El Bandito]

I see plenty of Lights and fast Mediums go off on their own with C/ERLLs. Spider-5Ds, Locust 1Vs, Cicadas, Scats....

Edited by El Bandito, 26 May 2016 - 08:33 PM.

[Deathlike]

Sniping does work, the problem is whether a team is committing to do it, and do it properly.

It doesn't really work with PUGs too well... mostly due to not knowing how to position, where to be... and a host of other things.

Being a Mech Rambo in MWO doesn't really work either way.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Running off is fine if you know what you are doing and can handle yourself, though its definitely not as easy.

I used to run off in my Executioner sometimes and flank people and shoot the spines out of enemies. I'd have to have Radar dep, seismic, and a good loadout for it to go over well.

I went with 2 LPL for the poke and then 6 SPL for any enemies that came up to me. With Seismic I knew they were coming and with radar dep I could get away without many people noticing me after a poke. The Executioner is also fast with its MASC and has jump jets so it can reposition well.

Usually games went with me shooting slow assaults like Maulers and Dire Wolves in the back and blowing out sides then a light mech or two noticing me. I'd kill them quickly because 6 arm mounted SPLs in an assault mech is easy mode for killing lights. Later some heavy mech like a grasshopper or black knight would come and try to kill me and end up almost doing it but either overheating or spreading its damage just a little too much.

Though by that point I'd have at least 4 kills or more and my team would have been wiping up the enemies from the front.

No one really calls you out for things if you are doing really well.

EDIT: Also sometimes you'll find some bad LRM boat pilots sitting back and you end up killing 3-4 heavies and assaults who decided it was a bright idea to pack on way too many LRMs with no backup weapons and sit back a little too far.

Edited by Dakota1000, 26 May 2016 - 08:40 PM.

[DaZur]

Meh... Depends on who you ask.

Personally, my chosen MWO role is "ranged support" or "sniper" depending on whether I choose to be mobile or hunkered down. Of the two I choose to shoot-n-scoot unless I'm at a clear advantage and my targets are occupied.

It's a valid tactic and role to assume... Sadly, MWO does not afford enough opportunity and advantage to "specialists" and rather rewards carbon-copy metawhores.

IMHO, allowing specialization would go a long way to deepening the experience pool... Sadly too, PGI is hell bent on eSporting this thing.

[Y E O N N E]

I do tons of sniping with cERPPC in my Shadow Cats.

It's actually pretty damn effective in PUGs.

[Zordicron]

Pretty hard to do. Need the right mech, and if you bring something to big you risk costing the team "hit point pool" in that you weren;t there to share in the tanking of dmg.

It can be effective when done well. it can lead also to that one guy that gets good dmg, but is so far into #lone wolf that his team loses handily and yolo sniper gets little kills/assist/anything that matters. At that point it's akin to a LURM boat, where dmg is just dmg because it wasn;t effectively placed in the litteral sense of enemy mech bits, and the less letteral in timing and team coordination.

If, and it's a big if because i have seen WAY more #lone wolf ubersnipers that were a detriment to their team despite what looks like a decent match score(all random dmg with no substance) if you can manage to place the damage effectively, divide the attention of the enemy allowing for the main force to take advantage, occasionally spot, and otherwise contribute to the actual team play(instead of you know, run run run shoot, run run run shoot"olook at my 400 dmg and 2 assists!") then your actions are justified and you are a boon to most teams.

If you run and gun for the entire match, end up with second to top dmg but no kills, no KMMD, no real anything besides raw dmg and end of match you are the last one running around with almost full armor as 7 enemy mechs chase you down, you are bad and should feel bad for your #lone(bad)wolf play and should desist. No one cares how much dmg you farmed off laser spraying the enemy at 1200M, everyone on your team would have 1000+ dmg games if they stripped all the leg and arm armor off all 12 enemy team mechs before they were destroyed.

You need to figure out which player you are and go from there.

[Wintersdark]

Shadowcats are exceptional for it, as they're fast,insanely mobile (closest thing you come to piloting a jet in MWO IMHO) while carrying enough firepower to cause real harm.

I'm not a big fan of the mech for numerous reasons, but it certainly excels at that role.

---

My only thing, really, is if someone wants to hare off and do something like that, is they damn well better perform. Run off alone and get thanked by a light squad at the start of the game and you deserve what you get

[MechWarrior319348]

I also have to wonder if a heavy or medium lone sniper could create an opportunity for friendly lights?

Lets say we're on crimson city, and a sniper is on the island.

The enemy light mechs are gonna take notice. Then they will pack up and prepare to attack as wolves to kill that sniper.

Could be a good opportunity for an ambush, if you have your own lights and mediums ready to pounce,

Maybe a mutual relationship between snipers and lights?

[DaZur]

Zordicron, on 26 May 2016 - 08:58 PM, said:

Not saying you're wrong (Again, may be my tier talking here) but isn't 400 damage, 400 damage? I mean If a player is able to inflict 400 damage, that's 400 points of damage another player or players do not have to inflict to manifest a kill...

Absolutely, if that 400 points of damage is not taken advantage of by the team it's meaningless in terms of team-play. That said, IMHO that's the teams fault, not the snipers... No?

In MWO ranged support/sniper is not necessarily all about damage and kills... They are (or should be) principle to area denial, deterring advancement, spotting as well. All of which should allow other pilots opportunity they might not necessarily have sans your support.

Edited by DaZur, 26 May 2016 - 09:19 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

We need 8v8 back.

[Gas Guzzler]

Teamwork is a path to many strategies that some consider... unnatural.

[MechWarrior319348]

Gas Guzzler, on 26 May 2016 - 09:33 PM, said:

Teamwork is a path to many strategies that some consider... unnatural.

The dark side always wins my friend.

[Moldur]

Lone wolves are fairly rare. I don't lecture lights or fast mediums when I see them split off the grid. Heavies and up, or slow mediums are where I usually type "good luck when you run into 4 of them" or something because perhaps they are just inattentive to the grid, and need a reminder that they are an easy kill. Autonomous fast or stealthy mechs have their place and I assume the pilots understand the flow of battle well enough to bug out or capitalize on their positioning depending on how the match goes. Coring one or two fats, or even just getting half the enemy team to turn around can be a huge blessing.

Of course, everyone makes errors sometimes, but the majority of people I see going ahead or by themselves tend to know what they're doing. That is not to say, however, that I don't occasionally have the match where our entire light lance gets wiped in the first 3 minutes.


In my mind there is also a bit of a sub category: running off from the group for a short period of the match in something that is not a fast or stealthy mech in order to get a surprise kill and/or shift the fighting lines. This requires pretty good anticipation of the match and knowing the whereabouts of the enemy. For instance, taking your Assault or heavy down on the water in Veridian bog to back a single medium or light that is over there. Say it gets picked up by 1 or 2 mediums or something. They think they can go ahead and brawl 1 guy in the open, peek too far, and bam- before they realize they're outgunned, you've got 2 kills in the bag and they've lost a flank.. something like that.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Long range sniping weapons are things like ER LL's and ER PPC's.

It works great if you can snipe big, slow, targets that are far away consistently enough to inflict meaningful damage.

But if you end up brawling with light mechs the long burn time of ER LL's and high heat of ER PPC's can put you at a disadvantage.

If you're by yourself sniping or launching a lot of LRM's -- you'll be the highest priority target for light mechs with smart pilots who tend to target the most vulnerable animals of the herd 1st like wolves.

Sometimes you can flip the odds by equipping something like one ER LL and 5 x SSRM-6. Light pilots will see laser fire coming from a mech all by its lonesome and think to themselves: "FREE LUNCH". Then get smashed by SSRM's. I for one approve of those types of surprises.

[Nerdboard]

DaZur, on 26 May 2016 - 09:19 PM, said:

Not saying you're wrong (Again, may be my tier talking here) but isn't 400 damage, 400 damage? I mean If a player is able to inflict 400 damage, that's 400 points of damage another player or players do not have to inflict to manifest a kill...

Absolutely, if that 400 points of damage is not taken advantage of by the team it's meaningless in terms of team-play. That said, IMHO that's the teams fault, not the snipers... No?

In MWO ranged support/sniper is not necessarily all about damage and kills... They are (or should be) principle to area denial, deterring advancement, spotting as well. All of which should allow other pilots opportunity they might not necessarily have sans your support.

Yes and no. 400 damage spread over various mechs' arms which are only used for shielding for example is quite close to useless. Other people wont need to shoot off those arms anymore but the higher the actual skill-lvl of the game the less you will see that anyway. Patient people with good aim direct all of their fire to vital components only. And here the sniper has done about half his damage if you're lucky.
A good sniper would shoot for vital components only and then his damage would be very valuable. My personal observation however is that the vast majority of all snipers even in the high tiers is terrible. They do not spot targets and due to their often ridiculously bad aim dont suppress the enemy either. Dont even get me started on that 4x zoom when people are attacked on close range.

It just feels like there are a lot of people who choose sniping because they are regularly outmatched in their games. By going on high range they take critical damage less often and get higher endscores (even though mostly useless) so they think they are being successful.

For good snipers your arguments are definitely true however.

[DaZur]

I Zeratul I, on 26 May 2016 - 09:59 PM, said:

Sometimes you can flip the odds by equipping something like one ER LL and 5 x SSRM-6. Light pilots will see laser fire coming from a mech all by its lonesome and think to themselves: "FREE LUNCH". Then get smashed by SSRM's. I for one approve of those types of surprises.

My go-to build is a 2 x ePPC + 4 x mPulse RFL-5D... I kind'a use it the same way as you explain.

I'll shoot-n-scoot all day and like you mentioned, lights tend to seek me out. The mPulse tend to re-think their decision.

[Wintersdark]

DaZur, on 26 May 2016 - 09:19 PM, said:

Not saying you're wrong (Again, may be my tier talking here) but isn't 400 damage, 400 damage? I mean If a player is able to inflict 400 damage, that's 400 points of damage another player or players do not have to inflict to manifest a kill...

Absolutely, if that 400 points of damage is not taken advantage of by the team it's meaningless in terms of team-play. That said, IMHO that's the teams fault, not the snipers... No?

No. Damage is not all equal. There's a LOT of damage you can do to a mech that doesn't progress actually killing it. As an extreme example, you can put 200 damage into an AS7-S's arms, and you may as well have just shot the dirt.

More realistically in a practical situation, you're an ERLL sniper. You've done 200 damage to a timberwolf... to all of a timberwolf. Over 7 hitboxes, that's a whopping 28 damage each.

56 of it is worthless arm damage. If he's not legged, another 56 goes there. Now you've done 200 damage, but 112 of it doesn't actually help your team.

Or, let's say you do 200 damage to a timberwolf, but you suck less and put it all into the Timberwolfs torsos. That's 66ish damage per torso section, virtually all the armor on its torsos. Any solid alpha is going to tear a side torso and arm off, and a smidge more will ct core. He's badly damaged, and easily killed. The former one has been sandblasted.

In both instances, you've done 200 damage, but in one the timberwolf is in great shape, in the other it's extremely vulnerable.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

This topic made me come up with a Spirit Bear build for doing this job.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cf8b823def167fd

*MASC instead of TC4*

Basically you use your MASC to speed along to where you need to be and snipe with gauss and 2 ERLL. Being a big 100 ton mech firing at long range makes you a target to light mechs, this is where your quad SSRM6 come in and blow apart any light mechs that come by for a visit. The Gauss also helps with pin point damage against lights where the ERLL burn time lacks.

I should try this out.