74 replies to this topic

[izzycat218]

With the firepower creep how do you guys compensate on the older mechs with limited hard points and tonnage? The alpha strikes now days make me feel like I'm playing CoD without resplendent. I know on my part that positioning is probably my biggest issue. Though being two shotted in anything less than a heavy is frustrating. I do front load armor so not a complete noob lol. Seem to only contribute when I'm in an assault since I came back after 6 month break.

[Alan Davion]

Unfortunately until PGI finally pull their collective heads out of their collective arses and get rid of Paul Inoue, the Balance Overlord as he's been derogatorally labeled here, granted he deserves the label given the monumentallly idiotic changes that the game has gone through at different points, the issues MWO has with the underperforming mechs like the Commando for instance, will persist until the game is eventually shut down.

There's really no other choices but, A. Join the meta-humping crowd, or B. Find another game to play. I've chosen B currently, been playing World of Warships a lot, and when HBS' new turn-based Battletech game comes out, I'll be switching to that cause it offers an actual freaking story, real character progression, not the generic flipping "skill" tree of MWO, and it uses the MWO mech assets, so it's pretty much automatically better than MWO in all respects.

Not to mention that CGL, the current Table Top Battletech masters will be supplying the rules, not PGI, so it's pretty much 200% better than MWO currently.

Edited by Alan Davion, 28 May 2016 - 08:04 AM.

[Vxheous]

izzycat218, on 28 May 2016 - 07:45 AM, said:

With the firepower creep how do you guys compensate on the older mechs with limited hard points and tonnage? The alpha strikes now days make me feel like I'm playing CoD without resplendent. I know on my part that positioning is probably my biggest issue. Though being two shotted in anything less than a heavy is frustrating. I do front load armor so not a complete noob lol. Seem to only contribute when I'm in an assault since I came back after 6 month break.

Which older mechs do you speak of? Also, this game will never be like "CoD" "Battlefield" "CS-GO" or any other twitch shooter regardless of TTK, simply because those games have <1 sec TTK (you can die and never even see who shot you, and that is single person shooting).

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 28 May 2016 - 08:10 AM.

[lshtaria]

Not just Paul but Russ too with this eSports thing.

Logged on for the first time in a month today. Played a total of 3 games before quitting in disgust.

[Hit the Deck]

izzycat218, on 28 May 2016 - 07:45 AM, said:

With the firepower creep how do you guys compensate on the older mechs with limited hard points and tonnage?

Asking PGI for more quirks, obviously. It's for balance.

[izzycat218]

The mechs I speak of are of the pre clan invasion. I.e. Highlander, victor, hunchback, most of what's in my stable are the mechs rarely played. I brought the golden boy out and put up good numbers the other day but my only other consistent mech is my 732B Highlander.

[Vxheous]

izzycat218, on 28 May 2016 - 09:25 AM, said:

The mechs I speak of are of the pre clan invasion. I.e. Highlander, victor, hunchback, most of what's in my stable are the mechs rarely played. I brought the golden boy out and put up good numbers the other day but my only other consistent mech is my 732B Highlander.

Highlander and Victor has been neglected for the most part since the pre-Clan nerf to jumpjets. Hunchbacks on the other hand are quite viable right now.

[Escef]

izzycat218, on 28 May 2016 - 09:25 AM, said:

The mechs I speak of are of the pre clan invasion. I.e. Highlander, victor, hunchback, most of what's in my stable are the mechs rarely played. I brought the golden boy out and put up good numbers the other day but my only other consistent mech is my 732B Highlander.

Highlanders the best option is usually a 325XL. Most of your firepower is on the right side, and people will focus down your right torso. Even with a standard engine, being without your RT leaves you with 2-4 missile packs, which, depending on your build, may not be worth much. The extra speed and payload is worth it. I think my most successful Highlander to date has been "The Beast". The loadout has changed a little from time to time (swapping from a 300 std to a 325XL, changing energy weapons from LL, to ERLL, to PPC, to LPL), and perhaps the back-up guns are dated (the streaks are mostly a relic of beta hitreg, though leaving them on makes coordinating the arm/torso divide of the launchers easy), but I've gotten a 7-kill game out of her post clan invasion, so nothing to sneeze at... Still, I wouldn't be too eager to use Highlanders (IS or IIC) right now, with the Kodiak dominating the assault queue you are going to be very prone to being left behind.

The Victor I'd suggest tinkering with AC20, Gauss, and AC10 based builds to see what works for you. Never used Victors, but I recall XLs used to be very popular, so expect to have your cannon side focused off.

Hunchbacks are still solid performers with all of their old load-outs, so go to town with them, man.

[jaxjace]

Highlanders are useless because jump jets were nerfed hard a while back, this hurt assaults more than anything else, in addition poptarting was no longer viable on the highlander, add in its poor overall mobility, spread out, sparse hardpoints and its easy to see why its been passed over. SOLUTION, either give it jump jet quirks and durability or offensive quirks.

Victors are 80 tons of ****, their weapons are arm mounted, which is fine in a city but in a peek war they are lacking and vulnerable, they too were apart of the poptart days and when that strat was nerfed via the jump jet nerf their low ammount of hardpoints and lack of durability meant it went the way of the do do bird. SOLUTION give it jump jet quirks and even more durability quirks, OR give it some good offensive quirks, all of that being said, and its still probably better than an awesome nowadays.

Kintaros suffer from being limited to lasers and missles, and until recently that playstyle was not very viable, with the resurgence of brawling srmtaros are making a comeback.

Shadowhawks were also part of the poptart wave, however with the resurgance of brawling and the very viable quirks many shadowhawks have been given offensively they are making a comeback as well

the hunchback is a trusty mech, its not flashy, its not amazing, its not even that cool, but it is durable, fast, xl and std friendly, and can usually pack a devestating alpha, its not "bad" there are just so many other medium choices nowadays that its kinda a "why bring one" thing, they have amazing quirks but they just arent star player mechs, they could stand some slight tweaking.

Commandos are still the fastest mech in the game, they got that going for them, but not much else. its a 25 ton light mech though so i dont know what you want.

Locusts are the smallest and best accel deccel in the game they got that going for them, not much else, its 20 freaking tons though. you shouldnt bring it even as a joke, in fact **** it, it is a joke mech. Except for CW if you just HAVE to have that extra assault. Anyone that can kick *** in a locust is a star in my book.

Vindicators are ****, never were good, they need work bad. when they came out they were DOA because of their stupid hitboxes, later the already good blackjacks were quirked to infinity and back meanwhile this OTHER 45 tonner was left to rot in the mud, low hardpoints, **** quirks, **** hardpoint locations, its just BAD, it needs all of the quirks the blackjack ever had to be viable

Cicadas are 40 tons fast as **** and can mount a good sustaining build, other than that they are 40 tons and die to almost anything in an even fight. that being said, played like a jumpless jenner its a load of fun to play.

Griffons are as viable as they have ever been with the resurgance of brawling

wolverines were never bad throughout this time mostly thanks to their good amount of energy points and good brawling ability. nowadays they are rare, mostly for the same reason as the hunchback, they need slight tweaks

quickdraws were very recently jesus mechs and have been nerfed back to being just "ok" their large model that is due for a resize hurts them

Catapults are in a strange spot, if played right, they are amazing, but their large model that is due for a resize hurts them

Awesomes would be great if not for the fact that they are oversized and impossible to miss

Banshees are still amazing

Battlemasters still amazing

stalkers still good

atlai after their years in the shadows have rose to be the undisputed masters of the brawl.

cataphracts feel as though they were forgotten, their quirks are subpar, their weapon ammount is good, the placement not so much, its not very manuverable, not very durable, large model, needs some work.

Ravens are just meh, not good at anything other than sniping and poking, but they dont have the sustain or the output to make a difference, they lack quirks.

Jenners are good, the oxide is almost or it is OP

firestarters are good

jagermechs are glass cannons, as fragile as they come, and their alphas or their dps is not as scary as it once was. needs some quirk work

Dragons are in that odd 60 ton spot of not being quite heavy enough, they are fast as hell though and can still pack a decent medium sized punch even going that fast, their huge ct limits their abilities in battle but as far as calvery mechs go this is your man, a few of them used to have jesus quirks but now all of them merely have "ok" to "good" quirks, they are alright. if anytihng i think a model rework would do it wonders.

EDIT: Trebuchets a mech so mothballed i literally forgot about it. its just another missile armed medium, its fragile, doesnt have alot of tonnage to work with, etc. Its relatively mobile and makes a good hit and fade srm boat but its easily passed over in favor of griffons or any of the other heavy mediums actually. There is almost no point to the mech being there. If LRMS were idk a balanced and viable weapon then there might be a place for this "fire support medium" but as it stands theres almost no reason to run it, its got some quirks though so get creative?

Edited by jaxjace, 30 May 2016 - 11:24 AM.

[izzycat218]

Escef, on 28 May 2016 - 10:45 AM, said:

Highlanders the best option is usually a 325XL. Most of your firepower is on the right side, and people will focus down your right torso. Even with a standard engine, being without your RT leaves you with 2-4 missile packs, which, depending on your build, may not be worth much. The extra speed and payload is worth it. I think my most successful Highlander to date has been "The Beast". The loadout has changed a little from time to time (swapping from a 300 std to a 325XL, changing energy weapons from LL, to ERLL, to PPC, to LPL), and perhaps the back-up guns are dated (the streaks are mostly a relic of beta hitreg, though leaving them on makes coordinating the arm/torso divide of the launchers easy), but I've gotten a 7-kill game out of her post clan invasion, so nothing to sneeze at... Still, I wouldn't be too eager to use Highlanders (IS or IIC) right now, with the Kodiak dominating the assault queue you are going to be very prone to being left behind.

The Victor I'd suggest tinkering with AC20, Gauss, and AC10 based builds to see what works for you. Never used Victors, but I recall XLs used to be very popular, so expect to have your cannon side focused off.

Hunchbacks are still solid performers with all of their old load-outs, so go to town with them, man.

I'll take a look at xl though I have been able to shield with left side really well since I started playing them. the hunchback on the other hand no such luck. 70 dmg pinpoint alpha and I'm done for. I get you can't tank like the olden days,but being one shotted from fresh sucks. I think in the end i'll have to convert to the new hotness in-order to compete with my average skill at this game.

jaxjace, on 28 May 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

Highlanders are useless because jump jets were nerfed hard a while back, this hurt assaults more than anything else, in addition poptarting was no longer viable on the highlander, add in its poor overall mobility, spread out, sparse hardpoints and its easy to see why its been passed over. SOLUTION, either give it jump jet quirks and durability or offensive quirks.

Victors are 80 tons of ****, their weapons are arm mounted, which is fine in a city but in a peek war they are lacking and vulnerable, they too were apart of the poptart days and when that strat was nerfed via the jump jet nerf their low ammount of hardpoints and lack of durability meant it went the way of the do do bird. SOLUTION give it jump jet quirks and even more durability quirks, OR give it some good offensive quirks, all of that being said, and its still probably better than an awesome nowadays.

Kintaros suffer from being limited to lasers and missles, and until recently that playstyle was not very viable, with the resurgence of brawling srmtaros are making a comeback.

Shadowhawks were also part of the poptart wave, however with the resurgance of brawling and the very viable quirks many shadowhawks have been given offensively they are making a comeback as well

the hunchback is a trusty mech, its not flashy, its not amazing, its not even that cool, but it is durable, fast, xl and std friendly, and can usually pack a devestating alpha, its not "bad" there are just so many other medium choices nowadays that its kinda a "why bring one" thing, they have amazing quirks but they just arent star player mechs, they could stand some slight tweaking.

Commandos are still the fastest mech in the game, they got that going for them, but not much else. its a 25 ton light mech though so i dont know what you want.

Locusts are the smallest and best accel deccel in the game they got that going for them, not much else, its 20 freaking tons though. you shouldnt bring it even as a joke, in fact **** it, it is a joke mech. Except for CW if you just HAVE to have that extra assault. Anyone that can kick *** in a locust is a star in my book.

Vindicators are ****, never were good, they need work bad. when they came out they were DOA because of their stupid hitboxes, later the already good blackjacks were quirked to infinity and back meanwhile this OTHER 45 tonner was left to rot in the mud, low hardpoints, **** quirks, **** hardpoint locations, its just BAD, it needs all of the quirks the blackjack ever had to be viable

Cicadas are 40 tons fast as **** and can mount a good sustaining build, other than that they are 40 tons and die to almost anything in an even fight. that being said, played like a jumpless jenner its a load of fun to play.

Griffons are as viable as they have ever been with the resurgance of brawling

wolverines were never bad throughout this time mostly thanks to their good amount of energy points and good brawling ability. nowadays they are rare, mostly for the same reason as the hunchback, they need slight tweaks

quickdraws were very recently jesus mechs and have been nerfed back to being just "ok" their large model that is due for a resize hurts them

Catapults are in a strange spot, if played right, they are amazing, but their large model that is due for a resize hurts them

Awesomes would be great if not for the fact that they are oversized and impossible to miss

Banshees are still amazing

Battlemasters still amazing

stalkers still good

atlai after their years in the shadows have rose to be the undisputed masters of the brawl.

cataphracts feel as though they were forgotten, their quirks are subpar, their weapon ammount is good, the placement not so much, its not very manuverable, not very durable, large model, needs some work.

Ravens are just meh, not good at anything other than sniping and poking, but they dont have the sustain or the output to make a difference, they lack quirks.

Jenners are good, the oxide is almost or it is OP

firestarters are good

jagermechs are glass cannons, as fragile as they come, and their alphas or their dps is not as scary as it once was. needs some quirk work

Dragons are in that odd 60 ton spot of not being quite heavy enough, they are fast as hell though and can still pack a decent medium sized punch even going that fast, their huge ct limits their abilities in battle but as far as calvery mechs go this is your man, a few of them used to have jesus quirks but now all of them merely have "ok" to "good" quirks, they are alright. if anytihng i think a model rework would do it wonders.

Thanks for taking the time to give a run down. I appreciate it.

[Escef]

izzycat218, on 28 May 2016 - 11:00 AM, said:

70 dmg pinpoint alpha and I'm done for.

Those alphas are generally not FLD, though. You can roll it. It'll still hurt, but you can roll it and survive.

[izzycat218]

Escef, on 28 May 2016 - 11:02 AM, said:

Those alphas are generally not FLD, though. You can roll it. It'll still hurt, but you can roll it and survive.

I'v always have had trouble "rolling" damage. especially from dakka boats.

[Appogee]

The way I look at it ... as an experienced player, it's a personal challenge to go back and do well in the limited early Mechs in the current power-creep meta.

So, instead of pre-ordering Cyclops*, I'll be buying Awesomes for CBills.

I know it will be tougher to level them than the more recent meta-Mechs. But I know I can do it.




*I've given PGI way too much money in the hope they'd get their act together. It's time for new whales to step up and fund the game in hope of a brighter future.

[Vxheous]

izzycat218, on 28 May 2016 - 11:10 AM, said:

I'v always have had trouble "rolling" damage. especially from dakka boats.

No dakka mech can put 70 damage on you instantly (4xCUAC10 Kodiak maybe, but those shells spread damage everywhere). Rolling damage is an integral part of this game, if you're having trouble with that, then it's not the mech you're piloting that's the issue (I am not trying to be mean, just that you have identified a weakness that you should most definitely work on). Best ways to deal with Dakka mechs is to peek and poke them, since they tend to face-tank while throwing as much lead downfield as possible. Peek and poke with insta-hit lasers, and attempt to avoid incoming shells. In terms of Hunchbacks, they have become quite tanky with the structure quirks that they have received. Try playing the brawler 4SP, or slap 3 Large Pulse on the 4P.

There are alot of older mechs that can be adapted to fit the current meta playstyle.

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 28 May 2016 - 11:22 AM.

[Escef]

izzycat218, on 28 May 2016 - 11:10 AM, said:

I'v always have had trouble "rolling" damage. especially from dakka boats.

Honestly, never clicked well with the Hunchies, but I cut my teeth on Cents. Been tooling around with my YLW today a bit, and if I pay attention I can still tank a fair amount of damage. Last match I was in it took a Warhawk, Stormcrow, Timberwolf, and Jagermech working together to put me down. The Hawk and the Timber were damaged when they came up on me, and I managed to drop the Timber. Trust me, play your cards right, and with a decent build you can still perform at least passably in an older mech.

[izzycat218]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 28 May 2016 - 11:19 AM, said:

No dakka mech can put 70 damage on you instantly (4xCUAC10 Kodiak maybe, but those shells spread damage everywhere). Rolling damage is an integral part of this game, if you're having trouble with that, then it's not the mech you're piloting that's the issue (I am not trying to be mean, just that you have identified a weakness that you should most definitely work on). Best ways to deal with Dakka mechs is to peek and poke them, since they tend to face-tank while throwing as much lead downfield as possible. Peek and poke with insta-hit lasers, and attempt to avoid incoming shells. In terms of Hunchbacks, they have become quite tanky with the structure quirks that they have received. Try playing the brawler 4SP, or slap 3 Large Pulse on the 4P.

There are alot of older mechs that can be adapted to fit the current meta playstyle.

Vxheous Kerensky, on 28 May 2016 - 11:19 AM, said:

No dakka mech can put 70 damage on you instantly (4xCUAC10 Kodiak maybe, but those shells spread damage everywhere). Rolling damage is an integral part of this game, if you're having trouble with that, then it's not the mech you're piloting that's the issue (I am not trying to be mean, just that you have identified a weakness that you should most definitely work on). Best ways to deal with Dakka mechs is to peek and poke them, since they tend to face-tank while throwing as much lead downfield as possible. Peek and poke with insta-hit lasers, and attempt to avoid incoming shells. In terms of Hunchbacks, they have become quite tanky with the structure quirks that they have received. Try playing the brawler 4SP, or slap 3 Large Pulse on the 4P.

There are alot of older mechs that can be adapted to fit the current meta playstyle.

i can shield with arms and a dead side pretty well. it's the even spreading of damage while being shot is the issue. Pretty sure the screen shake and blindness is what's throwing me off.

[Vxheous]

izzycat218, on 28 May 2016 - 11:46 AM, said:

i can shield with arms and a dead side pretty well. it's the even spreading of damage while being shot is the issue. Pretty sure the screen shake and blindness is what's throwing me off.

Yeah, you can't be caught in the open against ballistic mechs (kind of treat them in the same way as LRM boats, but with less scorn) Peek/shoot, then twist deadside/cover. Ballistics will always out dps you in a staring contest. There's nothing I hate worst than being poked by a laser mech while being in a ballistic mech and watching as my shells don't quite have the travel time to hit before they get back into cover.

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 28 May 2016 - 11:56 AM.

[Mole]

I still do well in all of the 'mech chassis that are largely considered to have been power creeped into oblivion. The Commando, the Spider, I can even still do good in a Victor. The trick is really breaking away from the meta and finding what guns work optimally on the 'mech instead of the current idea of "just shove as many guns in as possible". I find that my Spider does well with 3 Medium Pulse Lasers. My Commando with 3 Medium Lasers and 1 SRM6. And my Victor... well, you're gonna laugh at this, but trust me, it actually works; 3 AC/2, 2 SRM2, and 2 Medium Lasers.

[izzycat218]

Mole, on 28 May 2016 - 11:59 AM, said:

I still do well in all of the 'mech chassis that are largely considered to have been power creeped into oblivion. The Commando, the Spider, I can even still do good in a Victor. The trick is really breaking away from the meta and finding what guns work optimally on the 'mech instead of the current idea of "just shove as many guns in as possible". I find that my Spider does well with 3 Medium Pulse Lasers. My Commando with 3 Medium Lasers and 1 SRM6. And my Victor... well, you're gonna laugh at this, but trust me, it actually works; 3 AC/2, 2 SRM2, and 2 Medium Lasers.

Sometimes i run ac2/ac10 combo fired together. so im not laughing

[Appogee]

What "firepower creep"...?

Sure my unElited Kodiak-3 has a kill-death ratio of 14:1 ... but that's all pilot skill.

Pilot skill which, erm, really comes to the fore when I happen to be piloting a Kodiak 3.