31 replies to this topic

[Xetelian]

Stalkers, please raise from 310, 61.5 kph isn't very fast for 85 tons

Cataphracts, please raise from 340

Catapult, please raise from 315

Urbanmech please raise from 180

Highlander please raise from 330

Mauler please raise from 325

Many more/ect...

Zeus can carry a 390 but my Highlander only a 330?
AWS 8V can only carry a 300 but a 9M can carry a 385?


These caps don't make sense and limit a lot of speed.

The KDK is out, it can go 69.7 with a blistering alpha

Why can't the others? Most of which can't carry huge alphas with high end XLs

[EgoSlayer]

Xetelian, on 29 May 2016 - 03:10 PM, said:

Stalkers, please raise from 310, 61.5 kph isn't very fast for 85 tons

Cataphracts, please raise from 340

Catapult, please raise from 315

Urbanmech please raise from 180

Highlander please raise from 330

Mauler please raise from 325

Many more/ect...

Zeus can carry a 390 but my Highlander only a 330?
AWS 8V can only carry a 300 but a 9M can carry a 385?


These caps don't make sense and limit a lot of speed.

The KDK is out, it can go 69.7 with a blistering alpha

Why can't the others? Most of which can't carry huge alphas with high end XLs

Engine caps are based on a formula using the stock engine size as the basis, so there is sense to it:
Light Mech = 1.4 x Stock-Engine
Medium Mech = 1.3 x Stock-Engine
Heavy & Assault Mechs = 1.2 x Stock-Engine
Maximum is 400.

There are only a few exceptions, two that I know of are the Urban Mech, and the Bounty Hunter both have max sizes that are greater than the formula allows. There may be others but this rule was implemented in closed beta mainly to block the top speed of mechs that can utilize the speed with a very large engine and still be very combat effective. E.g. The swayback.

Edited by EgoSlayer, 29 May 2016 - 03:23 PM.

[Nightmare1]

I'm bummed - thought this was going to be a congratulatory thread about taking your hat off for some great feat.



Edit: Ninja'd by EgoSlayer.

Edited by Nightmare1, 29 May 2016 - 03:25 PM.

[Xetelian]

EgoSlayer, on 29 May 2016 - 03:22 PM, said:

Engine caps are based on a formula using the stock engine size as the basis, so there is sense to it:
Light Mech = 1.4 x Stock-Engine
Medium Mech = 1.3 x Stock-Engine
Heavy & Assault Mechs = 1.2 x Stock-Engine
Maximum is 400.

There are only a few exceptions, two that I know of are the Urban Mech, and the Bounty Hunter both have max sizes that are greater than the formula allows. There may be others but this rule was implemented in closed beta mainly to block the top speed of mechs that can utilize the speed with a very large engine and still be very combat effective. E.g. The swayback.

Old out dated logic is
Old out dated logic is
Dumb

CTF 4X can't go faster than 60KPH

Neither can a STK

We need higher caps.

[El Bandito]

CTF-4X still dreams of going faster than 64kph.

[EgoSlayer]

Xetelian, on 29 May 2016 - 03:31 PM, said:

Old out dated logic is
Old out dated logic is
Dumb

Well, there is a finely framed argument for raising engine caps...

Some mechs do get the shaft from the rule, but it's still a useful rule for the most part.

[Xetelian]

EgoSlayer, on 29 May 2016 - 03:36 PM, said:

Well, there is a finely framed argument for raising engine caps...

Some mechs do get the shaft from the rule, but it's still a useful rule for the most part.

I understand they had a rule to go by, but it is past time to throw that out dated rule out.


There is no logical reason that we can't put a 350 in a Highlander

[Naduk]

I would rather things not change here
The engine rule is just one aspect in a large set of systems that give mechs their character

If anything, we need lower caps on other mechs to reduce their speed or outlandish builds that are out of character for the chassis

For example, hunchbacks are not known for being good athletes

[FupDup]

Vindicators and BJs could really use a 250+ engine cap on more than just 2 of their variants combined.

[Zordicron]

There is precedent to raise caps on chassis. Even the Hunchback has gotten a boost, used to be 260 if I recall. It was given a bump in the era before quirks, when HSR was being improved and the giant RT was getting gibbed off every hunchie on the field.

After rescale is complete, at that time this topic might be wise to revisit. I would not change any of the engine stuff at this time as we do not know what dequirkageddon +mech size changes is all going to shake out to.

Plus, we have phantom power draw system(has anyone heard anything lately about it?) which would further alter chassis balance.

Anyway, increasing engine cap is a proven way to give a buff to an underperforming chassis. But IMO I would wait to see what chassis those end up being later this year if PGI gets all the stuff they say they will put into the game.

[Xetelian]

I get that that size thing will be a big impact but I don't see why a STK needs to be less than 64KPH when the 100 Ton KDK is able to go 64 KPH with a 400cXL

[Alan Davion]

EgoSlayer, on 29 May 2016 - 03:22 PM, said:

Engine caps are based on a formula using the stock engine size as the basis, so there is sense to it:
Light Mech = 1.4 x Stock-Engine
Medium Mech = 1.3 x Stock-Engine
Heavy & Assault Mechs = 1.2 x Stock-Engine
Maximum is 400.

There are only a few exceptions, two that I know of are the Urban Mech, and the Bounty Hunter both have max sizes that are greater than the formula allows. There may be others but this rule was implemented in closed beta mainly to block the top speed of mechs that can utilize the speed with a very large engine and still be very combat effective. E.g. The swayback.

I think your math is slightly flawed.

In the Javelin thread I posted that the only formula that made sense was "Base Engine * 1.5 = Max Engine", because it really is the only formula that makes sense.

The Javelin's 180 engine, multiplied by 1.4 gives us 252, and since BT/MW engines don't work that way, the formula has to be wrong somehow.

Meanwhile, the 1.5 formula gives us a 270 rating, the one of only two answers I could get that fit the BT/MW engine numbers.

I'll provide the other formulae now.

180 * 1.1 = 198
180 * 1.2 = 216
180 * 1.3 = 234
180 * 1.4 = 252
180 * 1.5 = 270
180 * 1.6 = 288
180 * 1.7 = 306
180 * 1.8 = 324
180 * 1.9 = 342
180 * 2 = 360

Now for other mechs the other formulae work differently, for example the Shadow Hawk, with a 275 engine stock, a 1.2 formula gives a rating of 330, 1.4 yields 385, however, I don't believe the Shadow Hawk is capable of mounting a 385 engine, so the 1.2 formula is likely the max engine for the Shadow Hawk.

If someone would double check my math I'd appreciate it. It's 1:30 AM as I write this, so I'm'a crash out to bed now.

[DaZur]

Pffft... I'd like to lower the caps on Heavies and Assaults.

[Aeon Veritas]

Alan Davion, on 29 May 2016 - 09:32 PM, said:

If someone would double check my math I'd appreciate it. It's 1:30 AM as I write this, so I'm'a crash out to bed now.

Well, the Shadow Hawk is a medium, acc. to EgoSlayers list is the factor for mediums 1.3.
275 x 1.3 = 357.5 rounded up to the 360 max engine rating the SDH got...
Smurfy overview of Shadow Hawks

Don't know if this example means they round up all the time or if they do the rounding acc. to math.
Further Investigation would be needed...

Edited by Aeon Veritas, 29 May 2016 - 09:59 PM.

[Spheroid]

No one in their right mind would demand a fast Stalker. It runs contrary to the hitbox and hardpoint layout it is endowed with.

There is already a high engine cap 85 tonner, the Battlemaster. I suggest you use that.

[PhoenixFire55]

An XL-340 Spider plz.

[B0oN]

I hereby demand a Battlemaster that is capable to mount XL600 engines .
Just because .
And just in case .

^^

[Davers]

I kinda miss the 130kph Hunchbacks.

[Metus regem]

Well since they already ignored engine rules from the get go, what harm could it possibly do.... /sarcasm


Seriously, since they ignored the TT Engine rules, everything had a max engine size of 400, but engine sizes went up by a multiplication of weight*walking speed, it had balance already built into it.

For example a Mauler could have:

90
180
270
360

For engine sizes, but no, we get a borked system that doesn't make a lot of sense....

[Tarogato]

I'd rather lower the engine caps of all the mechs in the game. They don't feel or look like battlemechs when they are moving 30% faster than the source material imagined them to be, especially the heavies and assaults.